Re: Not just yet

[Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>]

For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.

I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board 
was gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the 
resolution. Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected 
resolution, for a reason I don't yet understand. I went a second round 
with svn, but ran out of time.

Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a 
podling should expect from an ASF member.

Hadrian

On 10/22/2015 07:03 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
> Ah ha.  It wasn't clear from the original email this happened during the
> board meeting.  Now I get it.
> On Oct 21, 2015 23:09, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that's my point.  Those two weeks should be used to get incubator
>>> approval.  If you wait 4 weeks you don't graduate until December.
>>
>> The Incubator isn't going to vote again.  The text of the graduation
>> resolution from an Incubator recommendation is advisory and the Board
>> often modifies it. (The Incubator gets the text wrong embarrassingly
>> often.)  The Board passing a resolution to establish a TLP is the
>> crucial step from the standpoint of the Foundation as a corporate
>> entity.
>>
>> It's regrettable that the glitch was not caught until there was little
>> time left during today's meeting, but resolutions are powerful tools
>> and it's important to get the language right. The Foundation's bylaws
>> constrain the Board's ability to act -- it's not supposed to be easy.
>>
>> Marvin Humphrey
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>

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Re: Not just yet

[Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>]

Indeed, the month delay in consideration is exactly an opportunity to
correct the resolutions technical defects.



On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I was a reply to your message, but it was not pointed at you. Seriously.
> Maybe the "curious" part a bit, because you asked. We know however from
> experience that there are many other people who are curious what happens
> when unusual events like this take place and even a few, as I called them
> "conspiracy theorists".
>
> Normally I wouldn't write such a reply, but I wanted to take the
> opportunity to also point the positive (because the negatives are so often
> debated at length), which is the fact that board actually was accommodating
> and offered the opportunity for correction. Just to paint a clearer picture
> of the *people* behind board@.
>
> So concerns like the ones you raised are, from my point of view, very
> welcome. Especially as they come in the right tone. They create
> opportunities for learning for lurkers.
>
> Cheers,
> Hadrian
>
>
>
> On 10/22/2015 11:13 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>
>> On Oct 22, 2015 8:05 AM, "Hadrian Zbarcea" <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>>>
>>> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
>>>
>> gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
>> Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason
>> I don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of
>> time.
>>
>>>
>>> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
>>>
>> podling should expect from an ASF member.
>>
>> I'll assume that this was pointed to me.  If your email was clearer I
>> wouldn't have been confused about scope.  I apologize for any concerns
>> this
>> raised.
>>
>> Note that I never said you needed a revote.  It wasn't clear that this
>> came
>> out of the board, in the past when we had failed graduations it never made
>> it back to the incubator.
>>
>>
>>> Hadrian
>>>
>>> On 10/22/2015 07:03 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah ha.  It wasn't clear from the original email this happened during the
>>>> board meeting.  Now I get it.
>>>> On Oct 21, 2015 23:09, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's my point.  Those two weeks should be used to get
>>>>>>
>>>>> incubator
>>
>>> approval.  If you wait 4 weeks you don't graduate until December.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Incubator isn't going to vote again.  The text of the graduation
>>>>> resolution from an Incubator recommendation is advisory and the Board
>>>>> often modifies it. (The Incubator gets the text wrong embarrassingly
>>>>> often.)  The Board passing a resolution to establish a TLP is the
>>>>> crucial step from the standpoint of the Foundation as a corporate
>>>>> entity.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's regrettable that the glitch was not caught until there was little
>>>>> time left during today's meeting, but resolutions are powerful tools
>>>>> and it's important to get the language right. The Foundation's bylaws
>>>>> constrain the Board's ability to act -- it's not supposed to be easy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Not just yet

[Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>]

Hi John,

I was a reply to your message, but it was not pointed at you. Seriously. 
Maybe the "curious" part a bit, because you asked. We know however from 
experience that there are many other people who are curious what happens 
when unusual events like this take place and even a few, as I called 
them "conspiracy theorists".

Normally I wouldn't write such a reply, but I wanted to take the 
opportunity to also point the positive (because the negatives are so 
often debated at length), which is the fact that board actually was 
accommodating and offered the opportunity for correction. Just to paint 
a clearer picture of the *people* behind board@.

So concerns like the ones you raised are, from my point of view, very 
welcome. Especially as they come in the right tone. They create 
opportunities for learning for lurkers.

Cheers,
Hadrian


On 10/22/2015 11:13 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2015 8:05 AM, "Hadrian Zbarcea" <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>>
>> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
> gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
> Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason
> I don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.
>>
>> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
> podling should expect from an ASF member.
>
> I'll assume that this was pointed to me.  If your email was clearer I
> wouldn't have been confused about scope.  I apologize for any concerns this
> raised.
>
> Note that I never said you needed a revote.  It wasn't clear that this came
> out of the board, in the past when we had failed graduations it never made
> it back to the incubator.
>
>>
>> Hadrian
>>
>> On 10/22/2015 07:03 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah ha.  It wasn't clear from the original email this happened during the
>>> board meeting.  Now I get it.
>>> On Oct 21, 2015 23:09, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think that's my point.  Those two weeks should be used to get
> incubator
>>>>> approval.  If you wait 4 weeks you don't graduate until December.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Incubator isn't going to vote again.  The text of the graduation
>>>> resolution from an Incubator recommendation is advisory and the Board
>>>> often modifies it. (The Incubator gets the text wrong embarrassingly
>>>> often.)  The Board passing a resolution to establish a TLP is the
>>>> crucial step from the standpoint of the Foundation as a corporate
>>>> entity.
>>>>
>>>> It's regrettable that the glitch was not caught until there was little
>>>> time left during today's meeting, but resolutions are powerful tools
>>>> and it's important to get the language right. The Foundation's bylaws
>>>> constrain the Board's ability to act -- it's not supposed to be easy.
>>>>
>>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>

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Re: Not just yet

["John D. Ament" <jo...@gmail.com>]

On Oct 22, 2015 8:05 AM, "Hadrian Zbarcea" <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>
> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason
I don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.
>
> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
podling should expect from an ASF member.

I'll assume that this was pointed to me.  If your email was clearer I
wouldn't have been confused about scope.  I apologize for any concerns this
raised.

Note that I never said you needed a revote.  It wasn't clear that this came
out of the board, in the past when we had failed graduations it never made
it back to the incubator.

>
> Hadrian
>
> On 10/22/2015 07:03 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>
>> Ah ha.  It wasn't clear from the original email this happened during the
>> board meeting.  Now I get it.
>> On Oct 21, 2015 23:09, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that's my point.  Those two weeks should be used to get
incubator
>>>> approval.  If you wait 4 weeks you don't graduate until December.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Incubator isn't going to vote again.  The text of the graduation
>>> resolution from an Incubator recommendation is advisory and the Board
>>> often modifies it. (The Incubator gets the text wrong embarrassingly
>>> often.)  The Board passing a resolution to establish a TLP is the
>>> crucial step from the standpoint of the Foundation as a corporate
>>> entity.
>>>
>>> It's regrettable that the glitch was not caught until there was little
>>> time left during today's meeting, but resolutions are powerful tools
>>> and it's important to get the language right. The Foundation's bylaws
>>> constrain the Board's ability to act -- it's not supposed to be easy.
>>>
>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>

Re: Not just yet

[Alex Heneveld <al...@cloudsoftcorp.com>]

Hi Hadrian, All,

We have acquired a lot of familiarity with the challenges of the due 
processes and also their importance.  We in the Brooklyn community 
understand completely and we really appreciate all the assistance we are 
getting.

I suggest we still look to release an 0.9.0 around the beginning of 
November, though it will be called 0.9.0-incubating, and keep our 
fingers crossed for the next board meeting and a non-incubating 0.10.0 
at the start of December.

Best
Alex


On 22/10/2015 13:18, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>>
>> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
>> gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
>> Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason I
>> don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.
>>
>> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
>> podling should expect from an ASF member.
> There were other people who who voted for the graduation
> recommendation resolution, yet no reviewer raised any concern.  The
> missing paragraph would have been subtle and hard to catch, but it's a
> bummer that nobody flagged the conflicting mission statements in two
> paragraphs.  The drafter does not bear sole responsibility.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>


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Re: Not just yet

[Alex Heneveld <al...@cloudsoftcorp.com>]

Hi Hadrian, All,

We have acquired a lot of familiarity with the challenges of the due 
processes and also their importance.  We in the Brooklyn community 
understand completely and we really appreciate all the assistance we are 
getting.

I suggest we still look to release an 0.9.0 around the beginning of 
November, though it will be called 0.9.0-incubating, and keep our 
fingers crossed for the next board meeting and a non-incubating 0.10.0 
at the start of December.

Best
Alex


On 22/10/2015 13:18, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>>
>> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
>> gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
>> Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason I
>> don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.
>>
>> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
>> podling should expect from an ASF member.
> There were other people who who voted for the graduation
> recommendation resolution, yet no reviewer raised any concern.  The
> missing paragraph would have been subtle and hard to catch, but it's a
> bummer that nobody flagged the conflicting mission statements in two
> paragraphs.  The drafter does not bear sole responsibility.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>


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 Registered Office: 13 Dryden Place, Edinburgh, EH9 1RP
 
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the message is received by anyone other than the addressee, please return 
the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message 
from your computer. Internet e-mails are not necessarily secure. Cloudsoft 
Corporation Limited does not accept responsibility for changes made to this 
message after it was sent.

Whilst all reasonable care has been taken to avoid the transmission of 
viruses, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the 
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Re: Not just yet

[Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>
> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
> gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
> Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason I
> don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.
>
> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
> podling should expect from an ASF member.

There were other people who who voted for the graduation
recommendation resolution, yet no reviewer raised any concern.  The
missing paragraph would have been subtle and hard to catch, but it's a
bummer that nobody flagged the conflicting mission statements in two
paragraphs.  The drafter does not bear sole responsibility.

Marvin Humphrey

Re: Not just yet

[Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>
> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
> gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
> Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason I
> don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.
>
> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
> podling should expect from an ASF member.

There were other people who who voted for the graduation
recommendation resolution, yet no reviewer raised any concern.  The
missing paragraph would have been subtle and hard to catch, but it's a
bummer that nobody flagged the conflicting mission statements in two
paragraphs.  The drafter does not bear sole responsibility.

Marvin Humphrey

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Re: Not just yet

[Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:09 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:07 AM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> >...
>>
>> > I'm a bit bothered by the fact that this would mean that the community
>> > voted on one resolution and then a different resolution is constructed
>> > anew for the board to approve.  But at the moment, I'm not sure how to
>> > solve that problem.
>> >
>>
>> New workflow:
>>
>> 1. $somebody uses whimsy to post a resolution
>> 2. commit message is forwarded to $list
>> 3. community sees $resolution
>>
>> I believe the question is "does the commit message reach the appropriate
>> audience?"
>>
>
> Maybe it stays in a waiting area until approved by the community?

There's an idea.

I prefer to focus on defining a process with whimsy in mind, and then
add support for making it easier to do something that could also be
done outside of whimsy.

Applied here, there could be a simple directory in
https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers of draft resolutions.
The board agenda tool could have one or more forms forms that assist
with drafting resolutions and place them in that directory.  People
could update those resolutions directory, and perhaps the tool could
also be used for update.

The board agenda tool could add support for posting a draft resolution
found in this directory to this month's agenda.

>> Cheers,
>> -g

- Sam Ruby

P.S.  Perhaps it is time for a different subject line and/or move to
dev@whimsical?

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Re: Not just yet

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:07 AM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >...
>
> > I'm a bit bothered by the fact that this would mean that the community
> > voted on one resolution and then a different resolution is constructed
> > anew for the board to approve.  But at the moment, I'm not sure how to
> > solve that problem.
> >
>
> New workflow:
>
> 1. $somebody uses whimsy to post a resolution
> 2. commit message is forwarded to $list
> 3. community sees $resolution
>
> I believe the question is "does the commit message reach the appropriate
> audience?"
>

Maybe it stays in a waiting area until approved by the community?


>
> Cheers,
> -g
>

Re: Not just yet

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>...

> I'm a bit bothered by the fact that this would mean that the community
> voted on one resolution and then a different resolution is constructed
> anew for the board to approve.  But at the moment, I'm not sure how to
> solve that problem.
>

New workflow:

1. $somebody uses whimsy to post a resolution
2. commit message is forwarded to $list
3. community sees $resolution

I believe the question is "does the commit message reach the appropriate
audience?"

Cheers,
-g

Re: Not just yet

[Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 2:32 AM, Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2015 1:01 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Oct 22, 2015 9:57 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> >>...
>> >> I've also opened another issue that I would appreciate feedback on:
>> >>
>> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-28
>> >
>> > Cross-check is nice.
>> >
>> > I'd suggest another possibility: a web tool to *add* a template-based
>> > resolution in the first place.
>>
>> A.K.A.  A wizard or assistant[1].  Good idea, and easy peasy to
>> implement.
>
> Yup. With the agenda editing bits you've developed, I figured you could do
> this with your morning coffee :-)
>
>> I can start with these:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/templates/
>
> Yes.
>
>> The only thing that looks moderately challenging from a UI perspective
>> is allowing the entry of a list of users.  I may just go with a
>> textarea as people generally have a resolution that they have voted on
>> prior to posting a board resolution.
>
> Good point. But in that whimsy issue, you mentioned checking the list of
> names/emails, so you've already got some processing for that textarea.

Indeed.

I'm a bit bothered by the fact that this would mean that the community
voted on one resolution and then a different resolution is constructed
anew for the board to approve.  But at the moment, I'm not sure how to
solve that problem.

> Cheers,
> -g

- Sam Ruby

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Re: Not just yet

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Oct 23, 2015 1:01 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 22, 2015 9:57 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >>...
> >> I've also opened another issue that I would appreciate feedback on:
> >>
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-28
> >
> > Cross-check is nice.
> >
> > I'd suggest another possibility: a web tool to *add* a template-based
> > resolution in the first place.
>
> A.K.A.  A wizard or assistant[1].  Good idea, and easy peasy to
> implement.

Yup. With the agenda editing bits you've developed, I figured you could do
this with your morning coffee :-)

> I can start with these:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/templates/

Yes.

> The only thing that looks moderately challenging from a UI perspective
> is allowing the entry of a list of users.  I may just go with a
> textarea as people generally have a resolution that they have voted on
> prior to posting a board resolution.

Good point. But in that whimsy issue, you mentioned checking the list of
names/emails, so you've already got some processing for that textarea.

Cheers,
-g

Re: Not just yet

[Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2015 9:57 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>...
>> I've also opened another issue that I would appreciate feedback on:
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-28
>
> Cross-check is nice.
>
> I'd suggest another possibility: a web tool to *add* a template-based
> resolution in the first place.

A.K.A.  A wizard or assistant[1].  Good idea, and easy peasy to
implement.  I can start with these:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/templates/

The only thing that looks moderately challenging from a UI perspective
is allowing the entry of a list of users.  I may just go with a
textarea as people generally have a resolution that they have voted on
prior to posting a board resolution.

> Cheers,
> -g

- Sam Ruby

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_%28software%29

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Re: Not just yet

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

Agreed, it would likely make more sense for the entire doc to be a
template, with only a few variables and maybe a single check indicating
they want bylaws or not.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:17 PM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 22, 2015 9:57 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >...
> > I've also opened another issue that I would appreciate feedback on:
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-28
>
> Cross-check is nice.
>
> I'd suggest another possibility: a web tool to *add* a template-based
> resolution in the first place.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>

Re: Not just yet

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Oct 22, 2015 9:57 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>...
> I've also opened another issue that I would appreciate feedback on:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-28

Cross-check is nice.

I'd suggest another possibility: a web tool to *add* a template-based
resolution in the first place.

Cheers,
-g

Re: Not just yet

[Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>
> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
> gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
> Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason I
> don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.

I've opened an issue on the whimsy problem:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-27

I've also opened another issue that I would appreciate feedback on:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-28

> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
> podling should expect from an ASF member.
>
> Hadrian

- Sam Ruby

> On 10/22/2015 07:03 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>
>> Ah ha.  It wasn't clear from the original email this happened during the
>> board meeting.  Now I get it.
>> On Oct 21, 2015 23:09, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that's my point.  Those two weeks should be used to get
>>>> incubator
>>>> approval.  If you wait 4 weeks you don't graduate until December.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Incubator isn't going to vote again.  The text of the graduation
>>> resolution from an Incubator recommendation is advisory and the Board
>>> often modifies it. (The Incubator gets the text wrong embarrassingly
>>> often.)  The Board passing a resolution to establish a TLP is the
>>> crucial step from the standpoint of the Foundation as a corporate
>>> entity.
>>>
>>> It's regrettable that the glitch was not caught until there was little
>>> time left during today's meeting, but resolutions are powerful tools
>>> and it's important to get the language right. The Foundation's bylaws
>>> constrain the Board's ability to act -- it's not supposed to be easy.
>>>
>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>

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Re: Not just yet

["John D. Ament" <jo...@gmail.com>]

On Oct 22, 2015 8:05 AM, "Hadrian Zbarcea" <hz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the curious and conspiracy theorists :) let me complete the picture.
>
> I did actually attend the board meeting as I usually do and the board was
gracious enough to give me a couple of minutes to correct the resolution.
Unfortunately, whimsy wouldn't save the corrected resolution, for a reason
I don't yet understand. I went a second round with svn, but ran out of time.
>
> Looks like I got the graduation gods really angry. This is not what a
podling should expect from an ASF member.

I'll assume that this was pointed to me.  If your email was clearer I
wouldn't have been confused about scope.  I apologize for any concerns this
raised.

Note that I never said you needed a revote.  It wasn't clear that this came
out of the board, in the past when we had failed graduations it never made
it back to the incubator.

>
> Hadrian
>
> On 10/22/2015 07:03 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>
>> Ah ha.  It wasn't clear from the original email this happened during the
>> board meeting.  Now I get it.
>> On Oct 21, 2015 23:09, "Marvin Humphrey" <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that's my point.  Those two weeks should be used to get
incubator
>>>> approval.  If you wait 4 weeks you don't graduate until December.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Incubator isn't going to vote again.  The text of the graduation
>>> resolution from an Incubator recommendation is advisory and the Board
>>> often modifies it. (The Incubator gets the text wrong embarrassingly
>>> often.)  The Board passing a resolution to establish a TLP is the
>>> crucial step from the standpoint of the Foundation as a corporate
>>> entity.
>>>
>>> It's regrettable that the glitch was not caught until there was little
>>> time left during today's meeting, but resolutions are powerful tools
>>> and it's important to get the language right. The Foundation's bylaws
>>> constrain the Board's ability to act -- it's not supposed to be easy.
>>>
>>> Marvin Humphrey
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>