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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> on 2007/12/19 00:43:52 UTC
[DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Incubator PMC,
I've updated the BlueSky project proposal. Ting Peng and Incubator PMC,
please review/update as needed and report back any concerns. This is a
work in progress... comments , contributions and clarifications are most
welcome :-)
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky
Bluesky includes some GPL code taken from mmpeg and wplayer. Removing
these dependencies (or isolating them appropriately) will take quite a
bit of time. I want to advance this discussion quickly to the point
where we can decide whether, in principle, we want to accept this
project into incubation. If we think this will make a good ASF project
(and one for which we can provide adequate over-site), let's encourage
the XJTU team to begin the work on removing the GPL dependencies and
internationalizing the front end.
I'm very interested in this project for a couple of reasons: First, the
goals of the project, if achieved, will improve the lives of many
people. Second, this seems like a great opportunity to build out the
diversity of the ASF. I am willing to invest a good deal of time to
help make this project successful at the ASF.
Mentors, please sign up :-)
Regards,
Bill Stoddard
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@stolsvik.com>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 04 January 2008 11:22, Bozhong Lin wrote:
>> If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
>> into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented
>> Chinese developer community and many great Chinese-initiated projects could
>> come to Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China, it would
>> be wise for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from perspectives
>> of users and contributers.
>
> This sound like politics and won't impress people around here. I live in
> Malaysia, and understand this kind of reasoning, but your regular guy/gal in
> Europe/USA won't.
What _I_ said was that this seems like a good project in itself. That it
will set a precedent, and thereby maybe bootstrap lots of good, CAN be
viewed as an extra incentive to overcome any extra obstacles that will
present themselves due to language and social interaction / cultural
differences, as opposed to incubating a project already led by good
Americans who know the drill, code-of-conduct and last, but biggest, the
language.
Endre, still lurker.
PS: Regarding your above statement: I believe the regular guy/gal in
_Europe_ might..
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:15 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 04 January 2008 11:22, Bozhong Lin wrote:
>> If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
>> into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented
>> Chinese developer community and many great Chinese-initiated
>> projects could
>> come to Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China,
>> it would
>> be wise for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from
>> perspectives
>> of users and contributers.
>
> This sound like politics and won't impress people around here. I
> live in
> Malaysia, and understand this kind of reasoning, but your regular
> guy/gal in
> Europe/USA won't.
You are correct IMO, but not because of the prevailing geography of
Apache. I am hoping that nobody will be voting for BlueSky as some
kind of "strategic" move, and things will be judged on merits of the
specific project and the specific community.
Having said that I support BlueSky entry to the incubator and hope
that any possible obstacles will be resolved over the course of
incubation.
Cheers,
Andrus
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 04 January 2008 11:22, Bozhong Lin wrote:
> If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
> into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented
> Chinese developer community and many great Chinese-initiated projects could
> come to Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China, it would
> be wise for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from perspectives
> of users and contributers.
This sound like politics and won't impress people around here. I live in
Malaysia, and understand this kind of reasoning, but your regular guy/gal in
Europe/USA won't.
Regarding mentor; You need to be on the Incubator PMC to be a mentor. ASF
Members can be that by choice, and the Incubator PMC occassionally invites
dedicated Incubator contributors who are not ASF Members, but it it rare.
I have added myself as a Mentor to assist Aaron in this "east meets west"
project, as I think there will be cultural bridging needed.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Bozhong Lin <bo...@gmail.com>.
Without any doubt, this is a great project with several benefits mentioned
in discussion. If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented Chinese
developer community and many great Chinese-initiated projects could come to
Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China, it would be wise
for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from perspectives of users
and contributers. I have also been doing elevator-pitching that we should
have ApacheCon held in China sooner rather than later.
Regarding to concerns about project communication in English, I don't think
its an obstacle for project at all. Chinese education and in general many
Chinese people emphasize a lot in English learning through their school
system. For example, all official schools in China have made English part of
compulsory courses from 6th grades since 3 decades ago, and many schools in
big city starts teaching English from elementary school a decade ago.
Several commercial English training institutions in China are even listed on
New York Stock exchange. There might be difficulty along the way, but I
think that's part of Apache incubation process to help project mature.
Having experiences of working with a team participating in various Apache
projects and Eclipse project out of Beijing location, I would like to help
Bluesky project in terms of project communication and release. If I am
qualified as a project mentor, I would volunteer myself to be a mentor for
this project as well.
Thanks,
Bo
On Jan 3, 2008 8:02 PM, Endre Stølsvik <En...@stolsvik.com> wrote:
> Bill Stoddard wrote:
> > Incubator PMC,
>
> >
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky
>
> This sounds like a really interesting project. I mean that in two ways:
> first, the project looks very worthwhile in itself, helping rural
> communities a couple of extra steps up the education ladder by way of
> high tech.
>
> Secondly, possibly even more important in the long term, having a
> Chinese initiated project at Apache would be a huge "political" win,
> setting precedents: Despite the vast amount of (talented) Chinese
> people, I feel that there are rather few widespread Chinese-initiated or
> -led open source software projects - at least I don't know of many (And
> if I'm making a fool of myself right there, then please give me a
> clue-by-four right now!). It would be a boon to the universe if this
> situation could be remedied as fast as possible. I actually have no
> doubt that this will happen sooner or later, but if Apache can make it
> happen sooner, possibly by helping just this project along the road to
> worldwide open source adoption, that would be a really great side-goal
> of this incubation.
>
> And yes - this would obviously have to happen in English. Acknowledging
> that Chinese is a HUGE language in terms of the number of people
> speaking it, it is still no world language in terms of the number of
> nationalities speaking it. This can present a problem for many Chinese,
> given that English education hasn't been, _as far as I understand_, a
> top priority in China until somewhat recently.
>
> Thus, to make this happen, there will probably have to be made some
> extra efforts on both sides. But this can, as mentioned, make a
> precedent - BlueSky will be an example of Chinese initiated, world wide
> developed and adopted, open source software - and I believe that the
> potential long term rewards, not only for this project, can be big.
>
>
> Endre, lurker.
>
>
> PS: Due to the scope of the project, localization to the native
> languages in the region of deployment, or the use of pictograms and
> similar, will of course be of huge importance. This focus is also shared
> with projects like Ubuntu and OLPC, as far as I understand - there might
> be interest in collaboration.
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@stolsvik.com>.
Bill Stoddard wrote:
> Incubator PMC,
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky
This sounds like a really interesting project. I mean that in two ways:
first, the project looks very worthwhile in itself, helping rural
communities a couple of extra steps up the education ladder by way of
high tech.
Secondly, possibly even more important in the long term, having a
Chinese initiated project at Apache would be a huge "political" win,
setting precedents: Despite the vast amount of (talented) Chinese
people, I feel that there are rather few widespread Chinese-initiated or
-led open source software projects - at least I don't know of many (And
if I'm making a fool of myself right there, then please give me a
clue-by-four right now!). It would be a boon to the universe if this
situation could be remedied as fast as possible. I actually have no
doubt that this will happen sooner or later, but if Apache can make it
happen sooner, possibly by helping just this project along the road to
worldwide open source adoption, that would be a really great side-goal
of this incubation.
And yes - this would obviously have to happen in English. Acknowledging
that Chinese is a HUGE language in terms of the number of people
speaking it, it is still no world language in terms of the number of
nationalities speaking it. This can present a problem for many Chinese,
given that English education hasn't been, _as far as I understand_, a
top priority in China until somewhat recently.
Thus, to make this happen, there will probably have to be made some
extra efforts on both sides. But this can, as mentioned, make a
precedent - BlueSky will be an example of Chinese initiated, world wide
developed and adopted, open source software - and I believe that the
potential long term rewards, not only for this project, can be big.
Endre, lurker.
PS: Due to the scope of the project, localization to the native
languages in the region of deployment, or the use of pictograms and
similar, will of course be of huge importance. This focus is also shared
with projects like Ubuntu and OLPC, as far as I understand - there might
be interest in collaboration.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Bertrand here. This project would, potentially, be
>> interesting to my day job. It is unlikely that I would personally
>> contribute, but it is entirely possible some of the projects here in
>> UK higher education would be interested in the tools in this proposal.
>> Your proposal needs to make it clear that such interested parties can
>> participate as effectively in BlueSky as they can in other similar
>> projects.
>
> I'm confused; folks who don't contribute don't "participate" at least
> in the development here at the ASF. Those contributions may be meta
> contributions, e.g. code review and high level design, but those still
> represent contributions.
Sorry, let me clarify. I mean it is entirely possible that some of the
projects here in the UK education sector would be interested in
contributing to the development of some of the tools described in this
proposal. However, currently there is no significant documentation (that
I can find) that is in English, thus these people would not be able to
contribute since they would not be able to get it working.
Ross
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> I agree with Bertrand here. This project would, potentially, be
> interesting to my day job. It is unlikely that I would personally
> contribute, but it is entirely possible some of the projects here in UK
> higher education would be interested in the tools in this proposal. Your
> proposal needs to make it clear that such interested parties can
> participate as effectively in BlueSky as they can in other similar
> projects.
I'm confused; folks who don't contribute don't "participate" at least
in the development here at the ASF. Those contributions may be meta
contributions, e.g. code review and high level design, but those still
represent contributions.
Users (who don't otherwise contribute) are always welcome to submit bugs,
participate in the user forums, etc. I'm really unsure what you are
asking here, Ross.
> Your proposal does have "Make more documentation available in English"
> as a initial goal, however I don't feel that is enough to ensure
> community growth within the ASF. As bertrand says, the primary
> documentation and communication language would need to be English. It's
> not an ideal situation, but the reality of worldwide distributed
> development within the ASF requires us to use a single language.
+1, unfortunate as that is.
> Some mature projects have local language support (as opposed to
> development) hosted by the ASF. Would the incubator PMC find it
> acceptable for this project to have a Chinese language support forum for
> existing users (12 primary/high schools in China).
Absolutely. There's no reason to wait for the project to be "mature"
before launching user forums in other languages. We only ask that there
are at least one or two contributors who can read that user forum, which
represents an obstacle for many "new" projects.
There are running jokes of how horrible some of the httpd "It Worked!"
page translations were, so that project adopted a policy of having at
least two (unaffiliated) contributors per translation. Those did not
have to be committers/project members, but just ensuring every document
had some level of oversight.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2007 12:43 AM, Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> wrote:
>
>> ...I've updated the BlueSky project proposal. Ting Peng and Incubator PMC,
>> please review/update as needed and report back any concerns....
>
> I have two concerns about http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky:
...
> Sorry if I sound negative, I agree that the goals of the project are
> important, but I also see a risk of creating a project that might live
> on its own island, with very little ties to the rest of the ASF. I'm
> not saying it's impossible, but IMHO we have to make sure that the
> necessary agreements are in place before going further.
I agree with Bertrand here. This project would, potentially, be
interesting to my day job. It is unlikely that I would personally
contribute, but it is entirely possible some of the projects here in UK
higher education would be interested in the tools in this proposal. Your
proposal needs to make it clear that such interested parties can
participate as effectively in BlueSky as they can in other similar projects.
Your proposal does have "Make more documentation available in English"
as a initial goal, however I don't feel that is enough to ensure
community growth within the ASF. As bertrand says, the primary
documentation and communication language would need to be English. It's
not an ideal situation, but the reality of worldwide distributed
development within the ASF requires us to use a single language.
Some mature projects have local language support (as opposed to
development) hosted by the ASF. Would the incubator PMC find it
acceptable for this project to have a Chinese language support forum for
existing users (12 primary/high schools in China).
I also find it a little hard to pin down exactly what this software is.
It is billed as an eLearning system, yet it is described as a
distributed, collaborative environment. When I hear e-learning I think
of a virtual learning environment such as Moodle. Perhaps a short
comparison with features of typical VLE system would be helpful - what
makes this different from existing VLEs?
I did look at your project website for this, it does mention a feature
list but I could not actually find it.
Ross
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
Yoav Shapira wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2008 11:07 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 03 January 2008 07:09, Bill Stoddard wrote:
>>
>>> Can the team meet the challenge?
>>>
>> I think we should get going, and then resolve and evaluate these issues as
>> part of incubation.
>>
>
> Agreed, let's do it. +1 to BlueSky coming into the Incubator.
>
> Yoav
>
I will post a vote thread later today!
Bill
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
On Jan 3, 2008 11:07 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 03 January 2008 07:09, Bill Stoddard wrote:
> > Can the team meet the challenge?
>
> I think we should get going, and then resolve and evaluate these issues as
> part of incubation.
Agreed, let's do it. +1 to BlueSky coming into the Incubator.
Yoav
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Thursday 03 January 2008 07:09, Bill Stoddard wrote:
> Can the team meet the challenge?
I think we should get going, and then resolve and evaluate these issues as
part of incubation.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Ting Peng <t....@gmail.com>.
It is very nice. Impove both language and technical skills.
On Jan 6, 2008 1:58 PM, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/5/08, Ting Peng <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Currently, most of our developers are not native speaker of English. We
> > have some difficulties to communicate in English orally.
> > But we have enough language skill to communicate in written English.
> > By the way, our English language skill are improving during communicate
> > with community. So, I think we have enough capability to conduct our
> > project
> > in a world wide community, which is in English.
>
> Being active in open source has probably been one of the best sources
> for me to improve my English (I'm not a native speaker, like many on
> this list are not) :-)
>
> Eelco
>
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>
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
On 1/5/08, Ting Peng <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Currently, most of our developers are not native speaker of English. We
> have some difficulties to communicate in English orally.
> But we have enough language skill to communicate in written English.
> By the way, our English language skill are improving during communicate
> with community. So, I think we have enough capability to conduct our
> project
> in a world wide community, which is in English.
Being active in open source has probably been one of the best sources
for me to improve my English (I'm not a native speaker, like many on
this list are not) :-)
Eelco
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Ting Peng <t....@gmail.com>.
Currently, most of our developers are not native speaker of English. We
have some difficulties to communicate in English orally.
But we have enough language skill to communicate in written English.
By the way, our English language skill are improving during communicate
with community. So, I think we have enough capability to conduct our
project
in a world wide community, which is in English.
On Jan 3, 2008 7:09 AM, Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the good comments.
> ......
>
> If the Bluesky project is accepted into Incubation, will the Bluesky
> team be able to commit to conducting project communications in the
> public in English? This is a significant challenge to the Chinese
> developers on the Bluesky team. Can the team meet the challenge?
>
> 新年快乐, Happy New Year!
>
> Bill
>
>
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
Thanks for the good comments.
Ting Peng,
All successful open source projects share one thing in common... they
have active and diverse developer communities (and hopefully a growing
user community). The word and concept of 'community' is extremely
important. A project's development community works together,
collaborates, to define the goals of the project, ensure that code is
high quality and secure, and create releases for end users. ASF
projects cannot exist without community. The Incubator PMC will not
allow projects to graduate from Incubation if they fail to establish an
active and diverse developer community. This is why Bertrand's comments
are extremely important.
To be accepted into incubation, the Bluesky team must commit to doing
development in an open, public and transparent way. When a project is
accepted into Incubation, the project will get a website (or wiki
space), an SVN source code repository, and a mailing list to be used by
the development team. The bluesky team must:
1. use the developer mailing list, website and wiki to conduct most all
of the communication between team members regarding design and
development decisions
The mailing list archive should almost be a 'design document', where
design decisions are discussed openly and team members are given a
chance to comment on decisions. 'hallway' and face to face discussion
resulting in design decisions should be avoided if possible, and when
they do happen, someone must capture the decision in an email sent to
the mailing list so the community can see how the project is evolving.
2. In order to grow the community as large as possible, the ASF
requires that all development communication be conducted in English.
This allows people from all over the world to follow the project, watch
it evolve and contribute. It's perfectly okay to provide documentation
in other languages, but most discussions about project design and
implementation decisions must be conducted in English in a public forum
(mailing list, wiki, etc).
If the Bluesky project is accepted into Incubation, will the Bluesky
team be able to commit to conducting project communications in the
public in English? This is a significant challenge to the Chinese
developers on the Bluesky team. Can the team meet the challenge?
新年快乐, Happy New Year!
Bill
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>> On Dec 19, 2007 12:43 AM, Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> ...I've updated the BlueSky project proposal. Ting Peng and
>>> Incubator PMC,
>>> please review/update as needed and report back any concerns....
>>>
>>
>> I have two concerns about http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky:
>>
>>
>>> ...weekly development summary on this web site:
>>> http://www.p12.edu.cn/ (Currently, only available in mainland of
>>> China)...
>>>
>>
>> I think we need a committment from the BlueSky team that all
>> information and artifacts related to the project will be available
>> worldwide. I know nothing about how things work in China in this
>> respect, but having parts of the project segregated is not acceptable,
>> IMHO. That might make some community members second-class citizens if
>> they don't have access to everything.
>>
>>
> Currently, we have built official site of BlueSky, which is located at
> http://202.117.16.176/ .
> This website is worldwide available. You are welcomed to visit this
> website.
>
>>> ...Documentation
>>> All in Chinese now...
>>>
>>
>> In the same vein, we need to make it very clear that all
>> project-related communications have to happen in english on the ASF
>> mailing lists and websites. I don't think the ASF would be able to
>> provide the necessary oversight for anything happening in Chinese,
>> just as we don't support other languages at the moment.
>>
>> Sorry if I sound negative, I agree that the goals of the project are
>> important, but I also see a risk of creating a project that might live
>> on its own island, with very little ties to the rest of the ASF. I'm
>> not saying it's impossible, but IMHO we have to make sure that the
>> necessary agreements are in place before going further.
>>
> We have already written some documents about project BlueSky. These
> includes technical structure,
> source code, compiling instructions and screenshots. All of them are
> in English. More documents are
> in preparing.
>> -Bertrand
>>
>>
>>
> If anyone has any advice about our project BlueSky, please let us
> know. We do need your help.
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by "t.peng.dev" <t....@gmail.com>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2007 12:43 AM, Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> wrote:
>
>
>> ...I've updated the BlueSky project proposal. Ting Peng and Incubator PMC,
>> please review/update as needed and report back any concerns....
>>
>
> I have two concerns about http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky:
>
>
>> ...weekly development summary on this web site:
>> http://www.p12.edu.cn/ (Currently, only available in mainland of China)...
>>
>
> I think we need a committment from the BlueSky team that all
> information and artifacts related to the project will be available
> worldwide. I know nothing about how things work in China in this
> respect, but having parts of the project segregated is not acceptable,
> IMHO. That might make some community members second-class citizens if
> they don't have access to everything.
>
>
Currently, we have built official site of BlueSky, which is located at
http://202.117.16.176/ .
This website is worldwide available. You are welcomed to visit this website.
>> ...Documentation
>> All in Chinese now...
>>
>
> In the same vein, we need to make it very clear that all
> project-related communications have to happen in english on the ASF
> mailing lists and websites. I don't think the ASF would be able to
> provide the necessary oversight for anything happening in Chinese,
> just as we don't support other languages at the moment.
>
> Sorry if I sound negative, I agree that the goals of the project are
> important, but I also see a risk of creating a project that might live
> on its own island, with very little ties to the rest of the ASF. I'm
> not saying it's impossible, but IMHO we have to make sure that the
> necessary agreements are in place before going further.
>
We have already written some documents about project BlueSky. These
includes technical structure,
source code, compiling instructions and screenshots. All of them are in
English. More documents are
in preparing.
> -Bertrand
>
>
>
If anyone has any advice about our project BlueSky, please let us know.
We do need your help.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Ting Peng <t....@gmail.com>.
Currently, we have another website( http://202.117.16.176/ ). On this
website, technical
details and compiling instructions of Bluesky are available. All are
written in English.
Please visit this website, thanks.
http://www.p12.edu.cn/ is a demostration website of our MERSMP project, it a
component of BlueSky.
It is used for resource management. Currently, it is only in Chinese, only
available in mainland of China.
On Dec 19, 2007 2:36 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2007 12:43 AM, Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> wrote:
>
> > ...I've updated the BlueSky project proposal. Ting Peng and Incubator
> PMC,
> > please review/update as needed and report back any concerns....
>
> I have two concerns about http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky:
>
> > ...weekly development summary on this web site:
> > http://www.p12.edu.cn/ (Currently, only available in mainland of
> China)...
>
> I think we need a committment from the BlueSky team that all
> information and artifacts related to the project will be available
> worldwide. I know nothing about how things work in China in this
> respect, but having parts of the project segregated is not acceptable,
> IMHO. That might make some community members second-class citizens if
> they don't have access to everything.
>
> > ...Documentation
> > All in Chinese now...
>
> In the same vein, we need to make it very clear that all
> project-related communications have to happen in english on the ASF
> mailing lists and websites. I don't think the ASF would be able to
> provide the necessary oversight for anything happening in Chinese,
> just as we don't support other languages at the moment.
>
> Sorry if I sound negative, I agree that the goals of the project are
> important, but I also see a risk of creating a project that might live
> on its own island, with very little ties to the rest of the ASF. I'm
> not saying it's impossible, but IMHO we have to make sure that the
> necessary agreements are in place before going further.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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> --
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Dec 19, 2007 12:43 AM, Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com> wrote:
> ...I've updated the BlueSky project proposal. Ting Peng and Incubator PMC,
> please review/update as needed and report back any concerns....
I have two concerns about http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky:
> ...weekly development summary on this web site:
> http://www.p12.edu.cn/ (Currently, only available in mainland of China)...
I think we need a committment from the BlueSky team that all
information and artifacts related to the project will be available
worldwide. I know nothing about how things work in China in this
respect, but having parts of the project segregated is not acceptable,
IMHO. That might make some community members second-class citizens if
they don't have access to everything.
> ...Documentation
> All in Chinese now...
In the same vein, we need to make it very clear that all
project-related communications have to happen in english on the ASF
mailing lists and websites. I don't think the ASF would be able to
provide the necessary oversight for anything happening in Chinese,
just as we don't support other languages at the moment.
Sorry if I sound negative, I agree that the goals of the project are
important, but I also see a risk of creating a project that might live
on its own island, with very little ties to the rest of the ASF. I'm
not saying it's impossible, but IMHO we have to make sure that the
necessary agreements are in place before going further.
-Bertrand
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