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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by "Aecio F. Neto" <ae...@uol.com.br> on 2005/07/14 15:58:25 UTC
I am NOT a spammer
I have been trying to post to this list using my original subscriber
email address.
Unfortunately, It has been not possible up to now.
I am using a personal and secondary address to workaround a dumb rule,
assuming that all hosts under a dynamic IP is a source of spam.
My office server IP is NOT dynamic, but is part of a Brazillian ADSL range.
Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
someone able to workaround my issue.
Regards.
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by JamesDR <ja...@trusswood.net>.
Keith Ivey wrote:
> JamesDR wrote:
>
>> If you want to post to aol, your HELO MUST match your rdns (has been
>> in my case and a few others.)
>
>
> Not true. I send messages to AOL all the time from a machine whose HELO
> does not match its rDNS. Perhaps you mean that the HELO must be a valid
> hostname that points to your server's IP address?
>
Well, all I know is when I used trusswood.net or mail.trusswood.net as
the helo (ip as above) I got a nice message not to spam them ;-D . I
then changed the helo message (for my server) to the rdns and all was
good again. The mx record points to mail.trusswood.net, mail is sent
from the trusswood.net ip (same as mail.trusswood.net).. I have
available to me 5 ips (using only 1 atm) I didn't see any need to put
the mail|web|outbound stuff off onto other ip's ('cause they go to the
same place anyway...)
But then again... we're a drop in the ocean of e-mail exchanges with them...
--
James - Where's that qwest cust support #....
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by Keith Ivey <kc...@cpcug.org>.
JamesDR wrote:
> If you want to post to aol, your HELO MUST match
> your rdns (has been in my case and a few others.)
Not true. I send messages to AOL all the time from a machine whose HELO
does not match its rDNS. Perhaps you mean that the HELO must be a valid
hostname that points to your server's IP address?
--
Keith C. Ivey <kc...@cpcug.org>
Washington, DC
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by JamesDR <ja...@trusswood.net>.
jdow wrote:
> From: "Aecio F. Neto" <ae...@uol.com.br>
>
>
>>I have been trying to post to this list using my original subscriber
>>email address.
>>Unfortunately, It has been not possible up to now.
>>
>>I am using a personal and secondary address to workaround a dumb rule,
>>assuming that all hosts under a dynamic IP is a source of spam.
>>My office server IP is NOT dynamic, but is part of a Brazillian ADSL
>
> range.
>
>>Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
>>locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
>>someone able to workaround my issue.
>>
>>Regards.
>
>
> The only good solution is to use your ISP's email facility for forwarding
> email. If you post directly from a dialup address you will find a whole
> host of sites that block your emails. Postings from dialup DSL addresses
> are almost always spam. The exceptions are so few that blocking dialup
> addresses or dynamically assigned addresses is catching on throughout
> the Internet.
>
> {o.o}
>
>
>
>
It looks like you may need to yell at your isp to get you unlisted. It
looks to me like they listed their block to enforce some policy (many do)
This raises another question from me,
my inet ip is 65.113.179.82
rdns of this yields: 65-113-179-82.dia.cust.qwest.net
Now, I don't clam to be an expert, but where in that does it say
'dynamic' to anyone? If you want to post to aol, your HELO MUST match
your rdns (has been in my case and a few others.)
Now, back to the task at hand...
My home ip address is
67.34.142.208
rdns of it is adsl-067-037-142-208.sip.mco.bellsouth.net
I called and asked what each part of this means
adsl-ip (duh)
sip = static ip (true)
mco = Melbourne Cocoa Orlando (telephone area)
bellsouth.net (duh)
now, this an asdl res address, but by quickly looking at that you can't
tell if it's biz or res. Now, I know this because a friend of mine has
the exact same connection (adsl static 3mb/384kb) but biz connection
(btw, bellsouth blocks 25in and out for res connections, not biz
connections.) I'm not going to provide his ip or rdns (they are his, not
mine to play with :-D ) but his rdns is the same setup adsl-ip
.sip.mco.bellsouth.net. The biggest difference, I'm listed as res ip,
and he's not (Bellsouth policy.) Would my friend be blocked because of
the 'adsl-ip.sip.mco.bellsouth.net'? If so I may need to look to a
different isp before I start my biz.
Now, back to here (work) rdns info
Obviously that's a Cust Qwest ip address
i haven't called to get what dia means,
Now, before someone says "hey, dia means dialup" ok.. that would be true
IF this was dialup, but it's not.
It's full T1 with VoIP (running on a separate ip address)
Currently when I send to this list I see HELO_DYNAMIC_IP from the list
apache mail server(s).
The question here... Should I be pressuring my ISP to change my rdns to
trusswood.net (our domain here) or just not bother ie, is there any real
damage that could be done?
--
Thanks
James
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
From: "Aecio F. Neto" <ae...@uol.com.br>
> I have been trying to post to this list using my original subscriber
> email address.
> Unfortunately, It has been not possible up to now.
>
> I am using a personal and secondary address to workaround a dumb rule,
> assuming that all hosts under a dynamic IP is a source of spam.
> My office server IP is NOT dynamic, but is part of a Brazillian ADSL
range.
>
> Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
> locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
> someone able to workaround my issue.
>
> Regards.
The only good solution is to use your ISP's email facility for forwarding
email. If you post directly from a dialup address you will find a whole
host of sites that block your emails. Postings from dialup DSL addresses
are almost always spam. The exceptions are so few that blocking dialup
addresses or dynamically assigned addresses is catching on throughout
the Internet.
{o.o}
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
From: "Kai Schaetzl" <ma...@conactive.com>
> Aecio F. Neto wrote on Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:25 -0300:
>
> > Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
> > locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
> > someone able to workaround my issue.
>
> Talk to the site you have a problem sending to.
>
> Kai
Actually - go back to his enclosed message. It is received by the Apache
mail servers with the "Received:" header declaring his HELO of
www.harvest.com.br with an address of 192.168.0.252. Now, any reasonable
mail agent will declare this, coming in from outside, is obviously a
forgery and reject it.
He needs to fix this on his end. Perhaps he needs to go through a sendmail
client on one if his machines and tell it to rewite the address to look
like it was sent from his 200.207.18.245 external address.
{^_^}
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by Matt Kettler <mk...@evi-inc.com>.
Kai Schaetzl wrote:
> Aecio F. Neto wrote on Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:18:01 -0300:
>
>
>>The problem is with this list that does relies its technics over *not
>>reliable* listing services.
>
>
> I understand, it wasn't clear to me you were really talking about this
> very list. Sorry. Nevertheless, as you confirmed you are posting from
> dynamic IP space. Use your provider's smarthost, almost everyone doesn't
> accept mail from dynamic IP space nowadays.
Did Aecio confirm that Kai?
AFAIK Aecio claims to be posting from a static IP. It's on DSL, but that doesn't
make it dynamic (think business class DSL lines).
However, Since the Brazilian Telecom that owns the IP block mixes and matches
dynamic and static IP's at random, there's little to be done but treat the whole
pool as dynamic. It's not like anyone (including SORBS) can have a ip-by-ip
list of which ones are dynamic and static if the ISP is literally setting it up
completely at random.
I know that listing it all sucks, but there's very little that the rest of the
world can do about the stupidity of the telco. Quite frankly, I feel that
"Comite Gestor da Internet no Brasil" really isn't up to the task of being an
ISP at all. Their general lack of response to abuse complaints, or even their
own customer complaints is good evidence of that. And yes, I also know there's
no real other choice in brazil, but that doesn't make the problem any less real
(for people on both sides).
If that telco wants to offer business-class static DSL lines, they should be in
a separate CIDR block from the dynamic residential accounts.
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by Kai Schaetzl <ma...@conactive.com>.
Aecio F. Neto wrote on Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:18:01 -0300:
> The problem is with this list that does relies its technics over *not
> reliable* listing services.
I understand, it wasn't clear to me you were really talking about this
very list. Sorry. Nevertheless, as you confirmed you are posting from
dynamic IP space. Use your provider's smarthost, almost everyone doesn't
accept mail from dynamic IP space nowadays.
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany
Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com
IE-Center: http://ie5.de & http://msie.winware.org
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by "Aecio F. Neto" <ae...@uol.com.br>.
Kai Schaetzl escreveu:
>Aecio F. Neto wrote on Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:25 -0300:
>
>
>
>>Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
>>locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
>>someone able to workaround my issue.
>>
>>
>
>Talk to the site you have a problem sending to.
>
>Kai
>
>
>
I am!!!
The problem is with this list that does relies its technics over *not
reliable* listing services.
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by Matt Kettler <mk...@evi-inc.com>.
jdow wrote:
> Note that received from at Apache shows it came from 192.168.0.252.
> That is NEVER going to get through any properly configured mail setup.
> It looks like a forgery attempt to make mail look like it came from an
> internal address even when received from outside. That won't fly, in
> general.
Erm, J.. drink some coffee...
> Received: from unknown (HELO www.harvest.com.br) (192.168.0.252)
> by localhost with SMTP; 14 Jul 2005 13:52:34 -0000
That Received: wasn't generated by apache, it's on the local side. Apache never
accepted the mail, so apache never generated a Received: at all.
Besides it would be IMPOSSIBLE for it to show up at Apache from 192.168.0.252.
You'd never establish a TCP connection because the IP is unroutable.
Sure apache.org could possibly receive the TCP syn packet with such a source
address, if it wasn't firewalled out, but the syn-ack generated by the apache
server would go nowhere due to lack of route. Apache's MTA would never even know
an attempt was made to connect, as all of this happens within the OS's tcp stack.
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
From: "Matt Kettler" <mk...@comcast.net>
> At 11:06 AM 7/14/2005, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
>
> > > Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
> > > locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
> > > someone able to workaround my issue.
> >
> >Talk to the site you have a problem sending to.
>
>
> Kai, this list *IS* the site that Aecio is having a problem sending to.
>
> The mail was rejected by apache.org because
> smtp.harvest.com.br [200.207.18.245] is listed by SORBS as dynamic.
>
> However, that's a matter to take up with SORBS. The Point of Contact for
> the block of IPs will have to request delisting. That PoC appears to be
> "Comite Gestor da Internet no Brasil". Aecio, you'll have to get them to
> request that sorbs remove your IP.
>
> See the SORBS DUL FAQ:
>
> http://www.us.sorbs.net/faq/dul.shtml
Also what do these headers tell you about the message:
===8<---
Return-Path: <af...@harvest.com.br>
Received: (qmail 14184 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2005 13:52:34 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO www.harvest.com.br) (192.168.0.252)
by localhost with SMTP; 14 Jul 2005 13:52:34 -0000
To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: posting test.
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005
From: "Aecio F. Neto" <af...@harvest.com.br>
Message-ID:
<OF...@harvest.com.br>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:30:13 -0300
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Harvest01/Harvest/BR(Release
6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at
14/07/2005 10:30:14,
Serialize complete at 14/07/2005 10:30:14
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative
004C495E8325703E_="
--->8===
Note that received from at Apache shows it came from 192.168.0.252.
That is NEVER going to get through any properly configured mail setup.
It looks like a forgery attempt to make mail look like it came from an
internal address even when received from outside. That won't fly, in
general.
{^_^}
Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by Matt Kettler <mk...@comcast.net>.
At 11:06 AM 7/14/2005, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
> > Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
> > locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
> > someone able to workaround my issue.
>
>Talk to the site you have a problem sending to.
Kai, this list *IS* the site that Aecio is having a problem sending to.
The mail was rejected by apache.org because
smtp.harvest.com.br [200.207.18.245] is listed by SORBS as dynamic.
However, that's a matter to take up with SORBS. The Point of Contact for
the block of IPs will have to request delisting. That PoC appears to be
"Comite Gestor da Internet no Brasil". Aecio, you'll have to get them to
request that sorbs remove your IP.
See the SORBS DUL FAQ:
http://www.us.sorbs.net/faq/dul.shtml
RE: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by "Mark Wendt (Contractor)" <we...@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil>.
At 11:16 AM 7/14/2005, Dave Duffner - PSCGi wrote:
>Kai Schaetzl <ma...@conactive.com> decided to say on Thursday,
>July 14, 2005 11:06 AM:
>
<snip>
> Since this List doesn't have a tagline at
>the bottom indicating where to find help, subscribe
>or unsub, much less a tag like [SAApache] in the
>Subjects and trying to get a response from Apache.org
>about a mailing list is near impossible, I thought
>he took the right step asking here.
>
> Dave
Actually, that info is available in the headers of the list email.
Mailing-List: contact users-help@spamassassin.apache.org; run by ezmlm
list-help: <ma...@spamassassin.apache.org>
list-unsubscribe: <ma...@spamassassin.apache.org>
List-Post: <ma...@spamassassin.apache.org>
List-Id: <users.spamassassin.apache.org>
Mark
RE: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by Dave Duffner - PSCGi <we...@nwcweb.com>.
Kai Schaetzl <ma...@conactive.com> decided to say on Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:06 AM:
> Aecio F. Neto wrote on Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:25 -0300:
>
>> Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
>> locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
>> someone able to workaround my issue.
>
> Talk to the site you have a problem sending to.
>
> Kai
Uh, isn't that what he did in his first post
here? The List Admin for the SA List would be the
best shot at determining why the problem exists,
he couldn't find how to contact that person so he
found a way to post here hoping to find the List
Admin? Thought that was rather obvious...
Since this List doesn't have a tagline at
the bottom indicating where to find help, subscribe
or unsub, much less a tag like [SAApache] in the
Subjects and trying to get a response from Apache.org
about a mailing list is near impossible, I thought
he took the right step asking here.
Dave
I--I
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmission intended for the
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Re: I am NOT a spammer
Posted by Kai Schaetzl <ma...@conactive.com>.
Aecio F. Neto wrote on Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:58:25 -0300:
> Sorry bothering you all with such matter but I wasn't able to quickly
> locate an admin address and I HOPE this message get attention from
> someone able to workaround my issue.
Talk to the site you have a problem sending to.
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany
Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com
IE-Center: http://ie5.de & http://msie.winware.org