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Posted to dev@ant.apache.org by Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> on 2007/10/11 22:07:58 UTC
Ivy mailing list organisation (Was: Re: Infrastructure (was Re: [RESULT] Ivy has Graduated as an Ant Subproject))
2007/10/11, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>:
>
> On 10/11/07, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> We will at least need to:
> >
> > * migrate svn content
> >
> > * migrate the mailing lists
> >
> > * migrate the website
> >
> > * maybe migrate Wiki content
> >
> > * add the three Ivy committers to the ant Unix group.
>
>
> What can we do to help for these points? For the svn content, mailing
> lists
> and ant unix group, I don't see anything we can do.
A thing that we should do is to decide how we will organize our mailing
list.
In the incubator, we had a user, a dev and a commit mailing list.
I liked the separation of commit generated message and dev human messages
because it make it much easier to read (you don't read both messages the
same way).
So, one solution is to keep it like that. Use three mailing list:
- ivy@ant.apache.org (for user list)
- ivy-dev@ant.apache.org (for human dev related discussion)
- ivy-commit@ant.apache.org (for commit, jira and gump generated mails)
However, one of the drawback of this aproach is that we might often have to
put dev@ant.apache.org and ivy-dev@ant.apache.org in copy of our mails.
Which is something I personaly don't care when I'm using gmail (the mail are
present only once) but that could be anoying with most other mailer.
I think the choice also depends on how will be made the votes for release,
for new committers, or for other subjects.
WDYT?
--
Gilles SCOKART
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ho, and I also forgot the private mailing list. Do we need a
> separated list for ivy?
No, there is no Ivy PPMC anymore.
Stefan
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com>.
Ho, and I also forgot the private mailing list. Do we need a separated list
for ivy? I think not, but that depends probably more on you.
Gilles
2007/10/12, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>:
>
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So, one solution is to keep it like that. Use three mailing list:
> > - ivy@ant.apache.org (for user list)
> > - ivy-dev@ant.apache.org (for human dev related discussion)
> > - ivy-commit@ant.apache.org (for commit, jira and gump generated
> > mails)
>
> that would be the easiest from an infrastructure point of view. The
> list could be renamed, existing subscribers would be transferred
> automatically and the old addresses would forward for some time.
>
> > However, one of the drawback of this aproach is that we might often
> > have to put dev@ant.apache.org and ivy-dev@ant.apache.org in copy of
> > our mails.
>
> True. This might call for a general@ant list, but right now I don't
> think it will be needed that often.
>
> Dominique's suggestion would solve that easily, of course.
>
> > I think the choice also depends on how will be made the votes for
> > release, for new committers, or for other subjects.
>
> Release votes would be on the dev list of the subproject that wants to
> do the release, whichever that may be. Votes on people are not really
> conducted on public lists anyway, it just looks as if they were.
>
> Stefan
>
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>
--
Gilles SCOKART
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, one solution is to keep it like that. Use three mailing list:
> - ivy@ant.apache.org (for user list)
> - ivy-dev@ant.apache.org (for human dev related discussion)
> - ivy-commit@ant.apache.org (for commit, jira and gump generated
> mails)
that would be the easiest from an infrastructure point of view. The
list could be renamed, existing subscribers would be transferred
automatically and the old addresses would forward for some time.
> However, one of the drawback of this aproach is that we might often
> have to put dev@ant.apache.org and ivy-dev@ant.apache.org in copy of
> our mails.
True. This might call for a general@ant list, but right now I don't
think it will be needed that often.
Dominique's suggestion would solve that easily, of course.
> I think the choice also depends on how will be made the votes for
> release, for new committers, or for other subjects.
Release votes would be on the dev list of the subproject that wants to
do the release, whichever that may be. Votes on people are not really
conducted on public lists anyway, it just looks as if they were.
Stefan
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Dominique Devienne <dd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/11/07, Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> decide how we will organize our mailing list. [...] So, one
>> solution is to keep it like that. Use three mailing list: -
>> ivy@ant.apache.org (for user list) - ivy-dev@ant.apache.org (for
>> human dev related discussion) - ivy-commit@ant.apache.org (for
>> commit, jira and gump generated mails)
>
> What about using user@ant and dev@ant directly, and discuss Ivy
> directly on the Ant lists?
dev@ant is a bit more noisy since we receive commit and bugzilla mails
there. I don't think the Ivy dev's would want that. We could think
about using a separate commits list for Ant core as well, though.
> Ivy could be considered in a way as a big AntLib, and we don't have
> separate lists for AntLibs for example.
Compared to the existing Antlibs Ivy will generate a lot of traffic.
Stefan
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Dominique Devienne <dd...@gmail.com>.
On 10/12/07, Martijn Kruithof <jm...@kruithof.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> ant-bugs (gump, bugzilla, (what bug platform is ivy on?))
> ant-commits (svn commits from both ivy and ant)
> ant-dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user (as-is for the users)
> ivy-user (as-is for the users)
This sounds good to me: merge the dev list, but keep the user lists separate.
About splitting the dev list into dev per-se and a bugs list, why not. --DD
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com>.
2007/10/13, Martijn Kruithof <jk...@apache.org>:
>
>
> new proposal:
>
> notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy and
> ant)
> dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user
> ivy-user
+1
--
Gilles SCOKART
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Bruce Atherton <br...@callenish.com>.
Martijn Kruithof wrote:
> Good points
>
> new proposal:
>
> notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy and
> ant)
> dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user
> ivy-user
>
>
+1
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007, Martijn Kruithof <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> new proposal:
>
> notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy
> and ant)
> dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user
> ivy-user
+1
Stefan
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>.
On 10/13/07, Martijn Kruithof <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> [...]
> new proposal:
>
> notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy and
> ant)
> dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user
> ivy-user
+1
Xavier
Martijn
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ant.apache.org
>
>
--
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
http://xhab.blogspot.com/
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
http://www.xoocode.org/
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com>.
2007/10/13, Martijn Kruithof <jk...@apache.org>:
>
>
> new proposal:
>
> notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy and
> ant)
> dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user
> ivy-user
+1
--
Gilles SCOKART
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>.
On 10/13/07, Martijn Kruithof <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> [...]
> new proposal:
>
> notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy and
> ant)
> dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user
> ivy-user
+1
Xavier
Martijn
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ant.apache.org
>
>
--
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
http://xhab.blogspot.com/
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
http://www.xoocode.org/
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Martijn Kruithof <jk...@apache.org>.
Xavier Hanin schreef:
> On 10/12/07, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Martijn Kruithof <jm...@kruithof.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> maybe we could create the following lists
>>>
>>> ant-bugs (gump, bugzilla, (what bug platform is ivy on?))
>>> ant-commits (svn commits from both ivy and ant)
>>> ant-dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
>>> ant-user (as-is for the users)
>>> ivy-user (as-is for the users)
>>>
>> works for me (but I probably wouldn't split bugs and commits at all).
>> And instead of ant-dev, dev@ant as it is right now.
>>
>> Ivy uses JIRA and Xavier is the admin IIRC.
>>
>
>
> Fine for me too, and I agree with Stefan, I wouldn't split bugs and commits.
> There's also yet another notification e-mail kind: wiki notifications. Where
> would they fall in?
>
>
Good points
new proposal:
notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy and ant)
dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
ant-user
ivy-user
Martijn
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Martijn Kruithof <jk...@apache.org>.
Xavier Hanin schreef:
> On 10/12/07, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Martijn Kruithof <jm...@kruithof.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> maybe we could create the following lists
>>>
>>> ant-bugs (gump, bugzilla, (what bug platform is ivy on?))
>>> ant-commits (svn commits from both ivy and ant)
>>> ant-dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
>>> ant-user (as-is for the users)
>>> ivy-user (as-is for the users)
>>>
>> works for me (but I probably wouldn't split bugs and commits at all).
>> And instead of ant-dev, dev@ant as it is right now.
>>
>> Ivy uses JIRA and Xavier is the admin IIRC.
>>
>
>
> Fine for me too, and I agree with Stefan, I wouldn't split bugs and commits.
> There's also yet another notification e-mail kind: wiki notifications. Where
> would they fall in?
>
>
Good points
new proposal:
notifications (gump, wiki, bugzilla, jira, wiki, svn, for both ivy and ant)
dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
ant-user
ivy-user
Martijn
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>.
On 10/12/07, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Martijn Kruithof <jm...@kruithof.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > maybe we could create the following lists
> >
> > ant-bugs (gump, bugzilla, (what bug platform is ivy on?))
> > ant-commits (svn commits from both ivy and ant)
> > ant-dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> > ant-user (as-is for the users)
> > ivy-user (as-is for the users)
>
> works for me (but I probably wouldn't split bugs and commits at all).
> And instead of ant-dev, dev@ant as it is right now.
>
> Ivy uses JIRA and Xavier is the admin IIRC.
Fine for me too, and I agree with Stefan, I wouldn't split bugs and commits.
There's also yet another notification e-mail kind: wiki notifications. Where
would they fall in?
Xavier
Stefan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ant.apache.org
>
>
--
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
http://xhab.blogspot.com/
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
http://www.xoocode.org/
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Martijn Kruithof <jm...@kruithof.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> maybe we could create the following lists
>
> ant-bugs (gump, bugzilla, (what bug platform is ivy on?))
> ant-commits (svn commits from both ivy and ant)
> ant-dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
> ant-user (as-is for the users)
> ivy-user (as-is for the users)
works for me (but I probably wouldn't split bugs and commits at all).
And instead of ant-dev, dev@ant as it is right now.
Ivy uses JIRA and Xavier is the admin IIRC.
Stefan
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Martijn Kruithof <jm...@kruithof.xs4all.nl>.
Stefan Bodewig schreef:
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/11/07, Dominique Devienne <dd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
>>> What about using user@ant and dev@ant directly, and discuss Ivy
>>> directly on the Ant lists? Ivy could be considered in a way as a
>>> big AntLib, and we don't have separate lists for AntLibs for
>>> example. Just a thought... --DD
>>>
>> I don't really know what I think about that...
>>
>
> Same here.
>
>
>> So I don't know what I really prefer, maybe it's something we should
>> ask to our (Ant and Ivy) users on our current user mailing list?
>>
>
> That might be a good idea for users, but what about dev? We are the
> users here.
>
> I understand your wish to keep automatic mails and human generated
> content separate. Maybe we should do so for Ant as well?
>
> Stefan
>
I'd agree on separation of the commit messages for ant as well.
volumes on september
ivy-commits 119
ivy-dev 51
ivy-user 146
ant-dev 453 (48 gump, 113 svn, many bugzilla)
ant-user 446
maybe we could create the following lists
ant-bugs (gump, bugzilla, (what bug platform is ivy on?))
ant-commits (svn commits from both ivy and ant)
ant-dev (development discussion on both ivy and ant)
ant-user (as-is for the users)
ivy-user (as-is for the users)
br Martijn
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/11/07, Dominique Devienne <dd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What about using user@ant and dev@ant directly, and discuss Ivy
>> directly on the Ant lists? Ivy could be considered in a way as a
>> big AntLib, and we don't have separate lists for AntLibs for
>> example. Just a thought... --DD
>
>
> I don't really know what I think about that...
Same here.
> So I don't know what I really prefer, maybe it's something we should
> ask to our (Ant and Ivy) users on our current user mailing list?
That might be a good idea for users, but what about dev? We are the
users here.
I understand your wish to keep automatic mails and human generated
content separate. Maybe we should do so for Ant as well?
Stefan
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Re: Ivy mailing list organisation (Was: Re: Infrastructure (was Re: [RESULT] Ivy has Graduated as an Ant Subproject))
Posted by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>.
On 10/11/07, Dominique Devienne <dd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/11/07, Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > decide how we will organize our mailing list. [...]
> > So, one solution is to keep it like that. Use three mailing list:
> > - ivy@ant.apache.org (for user list)
> > - ivy-dev@ant.apache.org (for human dev related discussion)
> > - ivy-commit@ant.apache.org (for commit, jira and gump generated mails)
>
> What about using user@ant and dev@ant directly, and discuss Ivy
> directly on the Ant lists? Ivy could be considered in a way as a big
> AntLib, and we don't have separate lists for AntLibs for example. Just
> a thought... --DD
I don't really know what I think about that...
On one hand, I think the traffic on Ivy mailing lists deserves its own
mailing lists. Moreover there isn't much overlap between the subjects of
both user lists: ivy-user is most of the time focused on dependency
management discussion and not too much on ant related questions. One other
(minor) thing I like is that in Ivy we have notifications e-mail separated
from human traffic (ivy-commit vs ivy-dev), which is not the case in Ant,
and I prefer keeping things separated.
On the other hand, merging mailing lists would help ant users adopt ivy, and
also help make the Ant+Ivy community a single and stronger community.
So I don't know what I really prefer, maybe it's something we should ask to
our (Ant and Ivy) users on our current user mailing list?
Xavier
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ant.apache.org
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>
>
--
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
http://xhab.blogspot.com/
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/
http://www.xoocode.org/
Re: Ivy mailing list organisation (Was: Re: Infrastructure (was Re: [RESULT] Ivy has Graduated as an Ant Subproject))
Posted by Dominique Devienne <dd...@gmail.com>.
On 10/11/07, Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> decide how we will organize our mailing list. [...]
> So, one solution is to keep it like that. Use three mailing list:
> - ivy@ant.apache.org (for user list)
> - ivy-dev@ant.apache.org (for human dev related discussion)
> - ivy-commit@ant.apache.org (for commit, jira and gump generated mails)
What about using user@ant and dev@ant directly, and discuss Ivy
directly on the Ant lists? Ivy could be considered in a way as a big
AntLib, and we don't have separate lists for AntLibs for example. Just
a thought... --DD
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