Re: Subversion and Emacs VC

[kf...@collab.net]

"Stefan Monnier" <mo...@rum.cs.yale.edu> writes:
> http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/emacs/lisp/vc-svn.el?rev=HEAD
> 
> You'll say that it was a stupid idea since it creates two
> versions of vc-svn.el, but:
> - I think Emacs should come bundled with vc-svn.el eventually.
> - My code has a few improvements (inherited from vc-cvs.el).
> - My code doesn't require any additional paperwork to be accepted in Emacs.
> - I hope I'll be able to convince you to switch over to my version.
> 
> Clearly this last point is not under control yet ;-)
> So before this split goes any further, I'd like to know what people
> here think.

I think this is a great idea, *but* we need to make sure the people
currently working on vc-svn.el get commit access on the new vc-svn.el
in the Emacs tree.  In particular, Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <ko...@iki.fi>.

> Just for the record my vc-svn.el is not a "strictly" better version.
> The code is sufficiently different that some things might work
> in Subversion's vc-svn.el but not in mine, although the intention
> is to fix such things as soon as they're reported.

I conjecture that Kalle would be happy to transfer over recent
bugfixes, and then maintain the one in the Emacs tree from now on,
assuming it's not too bureacratically complicated for him to get to
work.

Kalle, am I right? :-)

Stefan, when you wrote

  > I finally took a look at the vc-svn.el file in Subversion's
  > repository and discovered that it's not much better than
  > my quick&dirty first attempt.

...I'm not sure which first attempt you're referring to.  As far as I
knew, the vc-svn.el in Subversion's repository was written by Jim
Blandy.  (I'm mentioning this only because I want to make sure Jim
gets credited for the work he did...)

Thanks for taking care of this transfer!  I'm sure we can get the
details worked out.  The main thing right now is getting vc-svn.el's
maintainers access to the Emacs repository; if we can't do that in a
timely fashion, then we'd need to reconsider the move... What's the
next step?

-Karl

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Re: Subversion and Emacs VC

[kf...@collab.net]

"Stefan Monnier" <mo...@rum.cs.yale.edu> writes:
> That's the rub: they need to sign papers to make sure the FSF has
> the copyright over the file.  Once that's done, getting write access
> is easy: get a savannah.gnu.org account (can be done online) and then
> ask one of the administrators of the Emacs project to add them
> to the people who get write-access.

I hope Kalle doesn't mind doing that (I've done it, never regretted
it, Kalle).

> In the mean time I intend to keep an eye on Subversion's vc-svn.el
> to try and keep Emacs' own version uptodate.

:-(

Stefan, I think you're going about things in the wrong order, and it
will cause much confusion.

You've made a fork.  Now every time we see a vc-svn.el bug report,
we'll have to figure out whether the two are interfering with each
other, or whether the bug report is even for the right one.  You'll
have the same problem in mirror image.

A better course would be to get papers from Kalle, make sure that
everyone who maintains vc-svn.el here will be able to do it there, and
then *move* the thing over.  After all, there's no reason for a fork
here, because there aren't any technical disagreements about what the
code should do, nor even about where it should live in the long run.
Everyone wants to see it distributed with Emacs; but an orderly
transition would be much more helpful than a dual-maintenance
situation.

> Back in December 2001, I did a first attempt at getting VC working
> with Subversion.  I never distributed it and I later on learned that
> Jim Blandy had made one of his own (not sure when he did it, tho).
> 
> The vc-svn.el I installed in Emacs has no code taken from Subversion's
> vc-svn.el, although it does have a few ideas taken from there.

Okay, look at it this way: you created a package named vc-svn.el, even
though there was already a publically distributed package called
`vc-svn.el' by someone else.  Why do it that way?  Why not either a)
name your package something else, so as not to cause confusion, or
better yet, b) join the maintenance team of the one in the Subversion
tree, and help get it moved into Emacs?

I really think some more careful thought & planning is necessary here.


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Re: Subversion and Emacs VC

[Stefan Monnier <mo...@rum.cs.yale.edu>]

> I think this is a great idea, *but* we need to make sure the people
> currently working on vc-svn.el get commit access on the new vc-svn.el
> in the Emacs tree.  In particular, Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <ko...@iki.fi>.

That's the rub: they need to sign papers to make sure the FSF has
the copyright over the file.  Once that's done, getting write access
is easy: get a savannah.gnu.org account (can be done online) and then
ask one of the administrators of the Emacs project to add them
to the people who get write-access.

> I conjecture that Kalle would be happy to transfer over recent
> bugfixes, and then maintain the one in the Emacs tree from now on,
> assuming it's not too bureacratically complicated for him to get to
> work.

In the mean time I intend to keep an eye on Subversion's vc-svn.el
to try and keep Emacs' own version uptodate.

>> I finally took a look at the vc-svn.el file in Subversion's
>> repository and discovered that it's not much better than
>> my quick&dirty first attempt.

> ...I'm not sure which first attempt you're referring to.  As far as I
> knew, the vc-svn.el in Subversion's repository was written by Jim
> Blandy.  (I'm mentioning this only because I want to make sure Jim
> gets credited for the work he did...)

Back in December 2001, I did a first attempt at getting VC working
with Subversion.  I never distributed it and I later on learned that
Jim Blandy had made one of his own (not sure when he did it, tho).

The vc-svn.el I installed in Emacs has no code taken from Subversion's
vc-svn.el, although it does have a few ideas taken from there.


        Stefan


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