Re: IRC channels

[Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>]

Hi Noah,

Sorry I missed this earlier.

Here's my perspective, since I live in a timezone that excludes me from most IRC conversations (and I spend increasingly less time on there when I'm at work now too). My absence isn't a big deal for the project, but I suspect a number of cloudstack developers may be in a similar circumstance - either by timezone, lack of access to IRC, or being mobile a lot.

On 21/09/2012, at 12:56 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:

> Cool. Well, I am hanging out in all the channels anyway. Once I find out
> who the Group Contact is for Freenode is, I will hand over the registration.

Keeping a separate meeting channel, only used during the meeting, still makes sense.

I would encourage keeping one channel for hanging out, until it is no longer useful to do so. I haven't seen any evidence that #cloudstack is overwhelmed by any topic to justify a split, and creating a dev-focused channel creates a temptation to make development decisions there rather than on the list. Is there anyone that feels strongly that it is needed?

> 
> As for #cloudstack-private, it would be used for the sort of thing we use
> private@ for. Typically quite low volume. But sometimes IRC is better for
> collaboration on issues. And sometimes you want to do it in private. :)

I can't see how that's a good idea as a place to just hang out. The rare private issues need to be as inclusive as possible. If a meeting is needed, the place and time can be coordinated on the list, and any log/minutes reflected back to those who couldn't attend.

Thanks,
Brett

Re: IRC channels

[Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>]

Thanks for your response, Brett. Comments inline.

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:

> Here's my perspective, since I live in a timezone that excludes me from
> most IRC conversations (and I spend increasingly less time on there when
> I'm at work now too). My absence isn't a big deal for the project, but I
> suspect a number of cloudstack developers may be in a similar circumstance
> - either by timezone, lack of access to IRC, or being mobile a lot.
>

Understood. That's a core consideration of any IRC policy.


> On 21/09/2012, at 12:56 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> > Cool. Well, I am hanging out in all the channels anyway. Once I find out
> > who the Group Contact is for Freenode is, I will hand over the
> registration.
>
> Keeping a separate meeting channel, only used during the meeting, still
> makes sense.
>

Yes, perhaps it does!


> I would encourage keeping one channel for hanging out, until it is no
> longer useful to do so. I haven't seen any evidence that #cloudstack is
> overwhelmed by any topic to justify a split, and creating a dev-focused
> channel creates a temptation to make development decisions there rather
> than on the list. Is there anyone that feels strongly that it is needed?
>

One of the things we saw with the #cloudstack-dev channel (advertised in
the #cloudstack topic as "dev chat, join us") is that a build bot was
brought in, and soon we'll have a commit bot too. And they're already
moderately noisy. Those are things that really have no importance in a
support/chat channel for users. Additionally, it has been my experience
that having a -dev channel can allow for high signal conversations between
committers while users are asking about features, etc.

Though, I'm not trying to foist my ideas on the community. I joined the
channel myself and mentioned it on the list in case anyone else thought it
was a good idea. A few people joined, so I guess they do. There's nothing
"official" about it.

As for the development decisions, I think that's an orthogonal issue. That
sort of community attitude is either going to exist or it is not going to
exist. The name of the channel, or the members in the channel, shouldn't
matter either way. And perhaps, if it turns into too much of a coterie, the
more observant members can stamp it out. Again, something which should
happen anyway. My experience with #couchdb and #couchdb-dev is that -dev is
a really easy way for people to "hang out" with the devs and start to get a
feel for the project zeitgeist, ask questions, and get involved. If you see
what I mean. It really is an extension of the dev@ list, in that regard.
(Which you will notice I'm proposing to de-clutter to help the newbs get a
picture of conversation.)

Again, I'm just bringing my experience as a community steward from CouchDB.
Not laying down rules! :-)


> > As for #cloudstack-private, it would be used for the sort of thing we use
> > private@ for. Typically quite low volume. But sometimes IRC is better
> for
> > collaboration on issues. And sometimes you want to do it in private. :)
>
> I can't see how that's a good idea as a place to just hang out. The rare
> private issues need to be as inclusive as possible. If a meeting is needed,
> the place and time can be coordinated on the list, and any log/minutes
> reflected back to those who couldn't attend.
>

 No, honestly, #couchdb-private has almost never been used. But when we do
want to have a private channel, it has been useful. Sometimes only for a
few hours in a single quarter. But the access controls are locked down,
which is handy.

What do you think?

-- 
NS