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Posted to l10n@openoffice.apache.org by Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> on 2014/04/05 22:18:13 UTC
"[HEB] Translation of feature"
While reviewing and fixing the Hebrew translation, the term "feature",
translated into תפקוד, sounds awkward to me. I think to change that into
יכולת (literally: ability).
What's your opinion on this?
I invite you to visit the shared doc, for more changes, todos, and
discussion:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks,
Tal
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:34 AM, Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry if I offended you personally, that wasn't my goal.
>
> When I first came to assist with the translation, none of you were by my
> side wanting to help me with the Apache bureaucracy on my way to lead the
> translation team (you can search through the mailing list history and see
> that I was the first to request the Hebrew permissions), plus I don't feel
That was back in 2012. Due to technical limitations at the time, only
committers had write access to Pootle, so yes, an ICLA was required in
that case. But these technical limitations have been addressed. The
"Apache bureaucracy" is no longer required in order to contribute to
translations.
Regards,
-Rob
> like I share the goals with this project and it's sector of users, there
> should be several open source competitors to office suite but I really
> think having one strong stable team to lead the way is better than 2.
> I think that the name OpenOffice is catchier than LibreOffice besides that
> I can't see the advantages of this project on top of the other.
>
> Although you may find my opinion quite upsetting I feel like I should share
> it even if you find it disturbing, and I apologize yet again if I offended
> you.
>
> Yaron Shahrabani
>
> <Hebrew translator>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
> <ar...@apache.org>wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 02:01:25PM +0200, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> > Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
>> > >the difference is that I have to sign all sorts of Apache SLA and I'm
>> > >not sure I like the Apache foundation so much
>>
>> I'm not sure why you don't like the ASF, may be it's a little
>> misunderstanding about what the ASF is; if this is case, then
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html may help understand
>> what the ASF is and who it works.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> --
>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>> La Plata, Argentina
>>
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Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>.
I'm sorry if I offended you personally, that wasn't my goal.
When I first came to assist with the translation, none of you were by my
side wanting to help me with the Apache bureaucracy on my way to lead the
translation team (you can search through the mailing list history and see
that I was the first to request the Hebrew permissions), plus I don't feel
like I share the goals with this project and it's sector of users, there
should be several open source competitors to office suite but I really
think having one strong stable team to lead the way is better than 2.
I think that the name OpenOffice is catchier than LibreOffice besides that
I can't see the advantages of this project on top of the other.
Although you may find my opinion quite upsetting I feel like I should share
it even if you find it disturbing, and I apologize yet again if I offended
you.
Yaron Shahrabani
<Hebrew translator>
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
<ar...@apache.org>wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 02:01:25PM +0200, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> > Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
> > >the difference is that I have to sign all sorts of Apache SLA and I'm
> > >not sure I like the Apache foundation so much
>
> I'm not sure why you don't like the ASF, may be it's a little
> misunderstanding about what the ASF is; if this is case, then
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html may help understand
> what the ASF is and who it works.
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>.
Due to the gap I don't think it's a good idea to commit upstream.
I truly wish there was more collaboration by turning these 2 into one
project.
Yaron Shahrabani
<Hebrew translator>
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 10:17 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
<ar...@apache.org>wrote:
> Hello Yaron,
>
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 05:37:48PM +0300, Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
> > If it was truly open you wouldn't have to sign that you agree with it,
> just
> > saying...
>
> I'm not sure if I understand the "have to sign" and how it relates to
> openness, but if it means that you have to sign some sort of licence
> agreement, then that's not the case. Let me quote two examples:
>
> * nds-DE locale data contributed by Timo Putzer <tp...@gmx.de>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/trunk/main/i18npool/source/localedata/data/nds_DE.xml
>
> * tt-RU locale data contributed by Irek Khaziev <kh...@mail.ru>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/trunk/main/i18npool/source/localedata/data/tt_RU.xml
>
> Timo and Irek didn't have to sign anything in order to contribute. They
> just had to state that their contribution was licensed under the Apache
> License; these statements were even implicit, as the locale data files
> they contributed had the ALv2 header, see the attachments on the
> respective bug reports
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124611
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124631
>
> These examples also show the benefits of the Apache Licence openness,
> which allows that your contribution can be "consumed" by other projects,
> derived or not, for example:
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/i18npool/source/localedata/data/nds_DE.xml
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/i18npool/source/localedata/data/tt_RU.xml
> Also note that, in this example, code flows in one direction, as they
> don't contribute their changes back.
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hello Yaron,
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 05:37:48PM +0300, Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
> If it was truly open you wouldn't have to sign that you agree with it, just
> saying...
I'm not sure if I understand the "have to sign" and how it relates to
openness, but if it means that you have to sign some sort of licence
agreement, then that's not the case. Let me quote two examples:
* nds-DE locale data contributed by Timo Putzer <tp...@gmx.de>
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/trunk/main/i18npool/source/localedata/data/nds_DE.xml
* tt-RU locale data contributed by Irek Khaziev <kh...@mail.ru>
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/trunk/main/i18npool/source/localedata/data/tt_RU.xml
Timo and Irek didn't have to sign anything in order to contribute. They
just had to state that their contribution was licensed under the Apache
License; these statements were even implicit, as the locale data files
they contributed had the ALv2 header, see the attachments on the
respective bug reports
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124611
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124631
These examples also show the benefits of the Apache Licence openness,
which allows that your contribution can be "consumed" by other projects,
derived or not, for example:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/i18npool/source/localedata/data/nds_DE.xml
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/i18npool/source/localedata/data/tt_RU.xml
Also note that, in this example, code flows in one direction, as they
don't contribute their changes back.
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>.
If it was truly open you wouldn't have to sign that you agree with it, just
saying...
Yaron Shahrabani
<Hebrew translator>
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
<ar...@apache.org>wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 02:01:25PM +0200, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> > Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
> > >the difference is that I have to sign all sorts of Apache SLA and I'm
> > >not sure I like the Apache foundation so much
>
> I'm not sure why you don't like the ASF, may be it's a little
> misunderstanding about what the ASF is; if this is case, then
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html may help understand
> what the ASF is and who it works.
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 02:01:25PM +0200, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
> >the difference is that I have to sign all sorts of Apache SLA and I'm
> >not sure I like the Apache foundation so much
I'm not sure why you don't like the ASF, may be it's a little
misunderstanding about what the ASF is; if this is case, then
http://www.apache.org/foundation/
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html may help understand
what the ASF is and who it works.
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Yaron Shahrabani wrote:
> the difference is that I have to sign all sorts of Apache SLA and I'm
> not sure I like the Apache foundation so much
You don't have to sign anything to contribute to an Apache project,
including OpenOffice. The other Hebrew translators didn't sign anything,
yet we have OpenOffice in Hebrew at 100% and about to be released.
If you meant the Apache CLA, https://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
its role is to ensure that you only contribute work that you have
permission to contribute.
Feel free to ask further questions, there is a lot of misinformation
around and we'll be happy to prove them wrong! Contributing to
OpenOffice translations is easy and requires no paperwork.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In brief: I try to coordinate work on the Hebrew translation, and continue
> the discussion on Google Drive:
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 2:10 AM, Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Both תכונה/תכונות.
> >
> OK, I'll use תכונה/תכונות to translate SW features. Will add it to the
> Drive doc.
>
> Great ☺
>
> > The former OpenOffice translation is very unprofessional, I wouldn't use
> it
> > as a reference, I fixed most of the mistakes they made in LibreOffice,
> most
> > of them are pretty basic, some are more complicated (Adding many
> > directionality characters making it very difficult to change the text or
> > remove parts of it).
> >
> Yaron, I notice many mistakes myself, and fix them, as much as I can.
> By Gezer, do you refer to this page? --
> http://wiki.hamakor.org.il/gezer/?q=rules
>
Sure, the difference is that I have to sign all sorts of Apache SLA and I'm
not sure I like the Apache foundation so much, LibreOffice is different.
>
> In the string you presented for example there's no separation between the
> > usage prefix ל and the product name as the Hebrew academy suggests.
> > Although the suggested symbol is a minus we (many open source
> > translators, I can show you some examples) usually prefer the Hebrew
> native
> > symbol of Maqqaf (בית־עץ) explained further here:
> > http://hebrew-academy.huji.ac.il/hahlatot/Punctuation/Pages/P35.aspx
> > And at the Gezer rules I sent earlier.
> >
> I usually fix ל/ב/ה to ה-/ל-/ב- in conjunction with English. I know we
> should use the formal מקף sign to connect word structures, but I see no
> real problem to use the more common sign "-", at least for now (BTW, the
> Heb Academy also use "-" in their site). The מקף is more common in
> printing, while "-" is more easy to type & read, on screen. Other matters
> require more urgent work, as you already know.
>
Sure, the Hebrew Academy states that whenever the formal Maqqaf can't be
used you can use a minus but since we are professionals we use Maqqaf and
the users can choose (I can help you with installing the appropriate
keyboard layout that has these symbols).
>
>
> [...] the description of the Excel/Spreadsheet functions are horrible
> >
> Yes, I think we should revert to original ENGLISH form.
>
> To conclude, I suggest we'll continue to develop and discuss OO translation
> and its common keywords through the Drive doc at
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
> -
> Hebrew translators are invited to edit and add/comment on things, if the
> purpose is to create a discussion around a specific word translation issue.
> As you've noticed in this Google Drive doc, I've already found & fixed
> (grayed texts) some common translation problems in the most common windows
> and dialogs of Writer, Calc, and Impress.
>
> I invite you to add problems within the doc, and answer my open
> questions/comments there, and start to coordinate on different
> responsibilities and split work between volunteers (you & me, TMHO).
>
> Note that I'm working on a Hebrew website translation too, to make
> installation & download more accessible to Israelis.
>
I've seen your efforts, I wish I had more free time to assist you with
it... Anyways I'll see what I can do, we are currently low on resources on
more popular projects.
>
> Shabat Shalom,
> Tal
>
You too,
Yaron.
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com>.
In brief: I try to coordinate work on the Hebrew translation, and continue
the discussion on Google Drive:
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 2:10 AM, Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Both תכונה/תכונות.
>
OK, I'll use תכונה/תכונות to translate SW features. Will add it to the
Drive doc.
> The former OpenOffice translation is very unprofessional, I wouldn't use it
> as a reference, I fixed most of the mistakes they made in LibreOffice, most
> of them are pretty basic, some are more complicated (Adding many
> directionality characters making it very difficult to change the text or
> remove parts of it).
>
Yaron, I notice many mistakes myself, and fix them, as much as I can.
By Gezer, do you refer to this page? --
http://wiki.hamakor.org.il/gezer/?q=rules
In the string you presented for example there's no separation between the
> usage prefix ל and the product name as the Hebrew academy suggests.
> Although the suggested symbol is a minus we (many open source
> translators, I can show you some examples) usually prefer the Hebrew native
> symbol of Maqqaf (בית־עץ) explained further here:
> http://hebrew-academy.huji.ac.il/hahlatot/Punctuation/Pages/P35.aspx
> And at the Gezer rules I sent earlier.
>
I usually fix ל/ב/ה to ה-/ל-/ב- in conjunction with English. I know we
should use the formal מקף sign to connect word structures, but I see no
real problem to use the more common sign "-", at least for now (BTW, the
Heb Academy also use "-" in their site). The מקף is more common in
printing, while "-" is more easy to type & read, on screen. Other matters
require more urgent work, as you already know.
[...] the description of the Excel/Spreadsheet functions are horrible
>
Yes, I think we should revert to original ENGLISH form.
To conclude, I suggest we'll continue to develop and discuss OO translation
and its common keywords through the Drive doc at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
-
Hebrew translators are invited to edit and add/comment on things, if the
purpose is to create a discussion around a specific word translation issue.
As you've noticed in this Google Drive doc, I've already found & fixed
(grayed texts) some common translation problems in the most common windows
and dialogs of Writer, Calc, and Impress.
I invite you to add problems within the doc, and answer my open
questions/comments there, and start to coordinate on different
responsibilities and split work between volunteers (you & me, TMHO).
Note that I'm working on a Hebrew website translation too, to make
installation & download more accessible to Israelis.
Shabat Shalom,
Tal
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>.
Both תכונה/תכונות.
The former OpenOffice translation is very unprofessional, I wouldn't use it
as a reference, I fixed most of the mistakes they made in LibreOffice, most
of them are pretty basic, some are more complicated (Adding many
directionality characters making it very difficult to change the text or
remove parts of it).
In the string you presented for example there's no separation between the
usage prefix ל and the product name as the Hebrew academy suggests.
Although the suggested symbol is a minus we (many open source translators,
I can show you some examples) usually prefer the Hebrew native symbol of
Maqqaf (בית־עץ) explained further here:
http://hebrew-academy.huji.ac.il/hahlatot/Punctuation/Pages/P35.aspx
And at the Gezer rules I sent earlier.
I think we have lots of work to do before the Open/Libre office suites are
actually translated normally, the description of the Excel/Spreadsheet
functions are horrible and I'm not sure I have the required resources to
deal with it.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your work, I just want to help you
do it right the first time and make sure we are compatible with one another.
Kind regards,
Yaron Shahrabani
<Hebrew translator>
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:54 AM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yaron, Meir, I mean to replace the תפקוד whenever "feature" is used as a
> software feature that is installed, not a feature of a component (which
> could be translated to מאפיין, as Meir suggested).
>
> Examples I refer too:
> Select the program features you want installed.
> Custom Setup allows you to selectively install program features
> ...
>
> More @
>
> https://translate.apache.org/he/aoo40/translate/#search=feature&sfields=source&soptions=exact&unit=14858165
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Can you please send us links showing several places this term is used?
> > I don't think it's common enough and it might confuse the users.
> >
> > Yaron Shahrabani
> >
> > <Hebrew translator>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Meir Stern <me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I think מְאַפְיֵן is better
> > >
> > > Meir
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > While reviewing and fixing the Hebrew translation, the term
> "feature",
> > > > translated into תפקוד, sounds awkward to me. I think to change that
> > into
> > > > יכולת (literally: ability).
> > > > What's your opinion on this?
> > > >
> > > > I invite you to visit the shared doc, for more changes, todos, and
> > > > discussion:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Tal
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> טל
>
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com>.
Yaron, Meir, I mean to replace the תפקוד whenever "feature" is used as a
software feature that is installed, not a feature of a component (which
could be translated to מאפיין, as Meir suggested).
Examples I refer too:
Select the program features you want installed.
Custom Setup allows you to selectively install program features
...
More @
https://translate.apache.org/he/aoo40/translate/#search=feature&sfields=source&soptions=exact&unit=14858165
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Can you please send us links showing several places this term is used?
> I don't think it's common enough and it might confuse the users.
>
> Yaron Shahrabani
>
> <Hebrew translator>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Meir Stern <me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think מְאַפְיֵן is better
> >
> > Meir
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > While reviewing and fixing the Hebrew translation, the term "feature",
> > > translated into תפקוד, sounds awkward to me. I think to change that
> into
> > > יכולת (literally: ability).
> > > What's your opinion on this?
> > >
> > > I invite you to visit the shared doc, for more changes, todos, and
> > > discussion:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Tal
> > >
> >
>
--
טל
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>.
Can you please send us links showing several places this term is used?
I don't think it's common enough and it might confuse the users.
Yaron Shahrabani
<Hebrew translator>
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Meir Stern <me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think מְאַפְיֵן is better
>
> Meir
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > While reviewing and fixing the Hebrew translation, the term "feature",
> > translated into תפקוד, sounds awkward to me. I think to change that into
> > יכולת (literally: ability).
> > What's your opinion on this?
> >
> > I invite you to visit the shared doc, for more changes, todos, and
> > discussion:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tal
> >
>
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Meir Stern <me...@gmail.com>.
I think מְאַפְיֵן is better
Meir
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> While reviewing and fixing the Hebrew translation, the term "feature",
> translated into תפקוד, sounds awkward to me. I think to change that into
> יכולת (literally: ability).
> What's your opinion on this?
>
> I invite you to visit the shared doc, for more changes, todos, and
> discussion:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tal
>
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com>.
Hey Yaron, yes, תכונה could do it, but I thought that יכולת would be more
clear to users. What do you think?
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:07 AM, Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Tal,
> The most common way of translating it is תכונה.
>
> Does that sound OK to you?
>
> Yaron Shahrabani
>
> <Hebrew translator>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > While reviewing and fixing the Hebrew translation, the term "feature",
> > translated into תפקוד, sounds awkward to me. I think to change that into
> > יכולת (literally: ability).
> > What's your opinion on this?
> >
> > I invite you to visit the shared doc, for more changes, todos, and
> > discussion:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tal
> >
>
--
טל
Re: "[HEB] Translation of feature"
Posted by Yaron Shahrabani <sh...@gmail.com>.
Hi Tal,
The most common way of translating it is תכונה.
Does that sound OK to you?
Yaron Shahrabani
<Hebrew translator>
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Tal Daniel <ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> While reviewing and fixing the Hebrew translation, the term "feature",
> translated into תפקוד, sounds awkward to me. I think to change that into
> יכולת (literally: ability).
> What's your opinion on this?
>
> I invite you to visit the shared doc, for more changes, todos, and
> discussion:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tSHkggqBpqg9WJYXmI5MmFfqtM9yG7r-RrF4ienzm2M/edit?usp=sharing
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tal
>