You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org> on 2003/09/18 18:42:48 UTC
Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor
I would like to suggest that we remove Xopus and Bitflux editor, except
for the interfaces, such that
people still can use them together with Lenya as third party tools. The
interfaces are no problem, since they were programmed
by myself.
Remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor:
+1
Please cast your vote
Thanks
Michael
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor
Posted by Roger Stupf <ro...@unicom.unizh.ch>.
>> Remove Bitflux Editor:
-1 from me.
BXENG ist the _only_ cross-platform xml-based wysiwyg editor running
with Lenya at the moment (afaik). The university of Zurich (financing a
not-negletable amount of the development of Lenya 1.0) relies a lot on
this editor and I am sure a lot of the success or failure of the
introduction of Lenya at the university depends on that editor.
> The new BXENG version is very easy to install. Just download it,
> unpack it into the webapps/ROOT/bxeng directory
> and that's it. (btw, I am NOT asking for votes re BXENG which is
> based on Mozile, but the one which is currently being shipped with
> Lenya)
I think a complete package lenya & editor is something that people
want. A CMS and the editor are castor and pollux to me.
> yeah, right, but we need to answer many questions what version of
> Browser does it work with, etc.
> These questions do not belong to the Lenya mailing lists, but rather
> to the Editor's mailing list.
My expierence is that often it is difficult for bug reporters to decide
whether a missing or non-well-working feature has its origin in the cms
or in the editor.
> The only editor which will always work is the HTML Form Editor, which
> I think will become quite good even
> if it's not that sexy and kind of limited.
A good HTML form editor is really important as a fallback solution when
the wysiwyg editor is not running or small bandwith are limiting its
use. In a way, it belongs to the "basics" a cms must bring with. But
most users will prefer the wysiwyg editor, I presume (and as a matter
of fact, _all_ users of the wyona CMS (the predecessor of lenya) are
using a wysiwyg editor - either xopus or bitfluxeditor. From my
experience of Lenya demonstrations to broad audience I can say that
it's the editor that makes the "aaah"-effect ;-). And it's the
"aah"-effect that helps people feel positive towards something new like
a next-to-introduce cms. That does not mean that lenya itself doesn't
bear it inself enough qualities to produce a lot of "aaahs", but these
are maybe more emerging from developers...
> Btw, OpenOffice is great as well, but we also don't include it into
> Lenya.
> Important are the interfaces, e.g. WebDAV, etc.
+1
So, to conclude: I, as a costumer, would like to see Lenya CMS being
paired with a good wysiwyg editor; tested, integrated and stable. I
understand Michaels concern of having really open and collaborative
editor backgrounds, but I'm sure the will is there; at least I can say
this - as a board member- for bitfluxeditor.org . And regarding that:
yes, we didn't read the contract carefully enough, I also think that
the copyright should be at bitfluxeditor.org and not Bitflux GmbH.
Thank you and Aloha
Roger
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Felix Maeder wrote:
<snip />
>
>
>
> Remove Bitflux Editor:
> -1
>
> Since a cms without a neat (wysiwyg) editor is not really worth a lot.
the existing version within Lenya isn't neat at all and doesn't even
work properly with the current Lenya version or does it?
> And nobody wants to download and install the editor separately;
The new BXENG version is very easy to install. Just download it, unpack
it into the webapps/ROOT/bxeng directory
and that's it. (btw, I am NOT asking for votes re BXENG which is based
on Mozile, but the one which is currently being shipped with Lenya)
> the lenya installation is already too complicated.
we can download it and install it during the build process for instance.
The big advantage is that Lenya becomes lighter and we don't have to do
the updates (I don't remember
anyone doing upgrades re the old Bitflux version, or did you?
> Wysiwyg editing was always something people were impressed of.
yeah, right, but we need to answer many questions what version of
Browser does it work with, etc.
These questions do not belong to the Lenya mailing lists, but rather to
the Editor's mailing list.
The only editor which will always work is the HTML Form Editor, which I
think will become quite good even
if it's not that sexy and kind of limited.
Btw, OpenOffice is great as well, but we also don't include it into Lenya.
Important are the interfaces, e.g. WebDAV, etc.
My idea is to have a section within the documentation where are all the
editors are being listed which
are working together with Lenya. We can make a prominent link to this
from the homepage of Lenya.
Thoughts?
Thanks
Michael
>
>
>
> -Felix
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor
Posted by Felix Maeder <fe...@wyona.com>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> I would like to suggest that we remove Xopus and Bitflux editor, except
> for the interfaces, such that
> people still can use them together with Lenya as third party tools. The
> interfaces are no problem, since they were programmed
> by myself.
>
> Remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor:
>
> +1
>
Remove Xopus:
+1
Since it is not under development any more and since it is not
production-ready.
Remove Bitflux Editor:
-1
Since a cms without a neat (wysiwyg) editor is not really worth a lot.
And nobody wants to download and install the editor separately; the
lenya installation is already too complicated. Wysiwyg editing was
always something people were impressed of.
-Felix
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Editor Interfaces (Was: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux
Editor)
Posted by Christian Stocker <ch...@bitflux.ch>.
On 9/25/03 1:31 AM, Michael Wechner wrote:
> Christian Stocker wrote:
>
>>
>> If it would only boil down to load and save the content, yes it would
>> be easy, 'cause adding WebDAV, resp. PUT support into an editor is an
>> easy task, if not already done. But every editor needs some
>> configuration, as well. Therefore you still have to provide and
>> maintain different interfaces to each of them, meaning, the HTML
>> produced to make the editor work needs to be different (the thing
>> which gets loaded, if you click "Edit with Name-Your-Favourite-Editor"
>> in the lenya authoring menu) and of course could change as the editor
>> progresses.
>
>
>
> right, but this needs to be done anyway, doesn't matter if the editor is
> integrated or not.
I (and I assume the other christian as well) were talking about
maintaining them (the interfaces) for different editors in the longer
term and not about doing "just" the initial integration.
chregu
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Editor Interfaces (Was: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux
Editor)
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Christian Stocker wrote:
>
> If it would only boil down to load and save the content, yes it would
> be easy, 'cause adding WebDAV, resp. PUT support into an editor is an
> easy task, if not already done. But every editor needs some
> configuration, as well. Therefore you still have to provide and
> maintain different interfaces to each of them, meaning, the HTML
> produced to make the editor work needs to be different (the thing
> which gets loaded, if you click "Edit with Name-Your-Favourite-Editor"
> in the lenya authoring menu) and of course could change as the editor
> progresses.
right, but this needs to be done anyway, doesn't matter if the editor is
integrated or not.
Another advantage of not integrating it, is that we can offer various
versions to install (e.g. stable or experimental),
but it would not make a lot of sense to integrate all these versions
into Lenya ...
Thanks
Michael
>
>
> chregu
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Editor Interfaces (Was: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor)
Posted by Christian Stocker <ch...@bitflux.ch>.
On 9/23/03 2:33 PM, Christian Egli wrote:
> Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org> writes:
>
>
>
>>Concerning just one editor: I think it would be a big mistake just to
>>offer an interface with regard to one specific editor.
>>The power of Lenya is to support all kind of editors: Xopus, Bitflux
>>Editor, Mozile, Midas, OpenOffice, HTMLFormEditor,
>
>
> Yes, it is nice to support a lot of editors, i.e. interfaces,
> however...
>
>
>>although it would be nice if Lenya would have to support only one
>>interface, e.g. WebDAV based.
>
>
> ...the cost (in terms of developer time) of maintaining all these
> interfaces has to be considered and it is definitely cheaper just one
> interface, e.g. WebDAV as you say.
If it would only boil down to load and save the content, yes it would be
easy, 'cause adding WebDAV, resp. PUT support into an editor is an easy
task, if not already done. But every editor needs some configuration, as
well. Therefore you still have to provide and maintain different
interfaces to each of them, meaning, the HTML produced to make the
editor work needs to be different (the thing which gets loaded, if you
click "Edit with Name-Your-Favourite-Editor" in the lenya authoring
menu) and of course could change as the editor progresses.
chregu
--
christian stocker | Bitflux GmbH | schoeneggstrasse 5 | ch-8004 zurich
phone +41 1 240 56 70 | mobile +41 76 561 88 60 | fax +41 1 240 56 71
http://www.bitflux.ch | chregu@bitflux.ch | gnupg-keyid 0x5CE1DECB
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor
Posted by Christian Egli <ch...@wyona.com>.
Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org> writes:
> Concerning just one editor: I think it would be a big mistake just to
> offer an interface with regard to one specific editor.
> The power of Lenya is to support all kind of editors: Xopus, Bitflux
> Editor, Mozile, Midas, OpenOffice, HTMLFormEditor,
Yes, it is nice to support a lot of editors, i.e. interfaces,
however...
> although it would be nice if Lenya would have to support only one
> interface, e.g. WebDAV based.
...the cost (in terms of developer time) of maintaining all these
interfaces has to be considered and it is definitely cheaper just one
interface, e.g. WebDAV as you say.
--
Christian Egli christian.egli@wyona.com +41 1 272 9161
Wyona AG, Hardstrasse 219, CH-8005 Zurich
Open Source CMS http://www.wyona.org http://www.wyona.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Christian Egli wrote:
>Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org> writes:
>
>
>
>
>I'm all for having only one best-of-breed editor. This simplifies
>maintenance, avoids user confusion, causes less questions on the user
>list and moves us forward in many ways.
>
again this vote is about Xopus 2.0.0.8 and the "old" Bitflux version,
which does not work
with the current CVS version of Lenya.
Currently, there is a lot of confusion on the lenya-user list re these
editors, because they don't really work at the moment.
>
>I guess best-of-breed editor at this point in time means the Bitflux
>NG Editor.
>
This will be another vote if we should include it or not, but there
isn't even an official CVS download link yet AFAIK.
Concerning just one editor: I think it would be a big mistake just to
offer an interface with regard to one specific editor.
The power of Lenya is to support all kind of editors: Xopus, Bitflux
Editor, Mozile, Midas, OpenOffice, HTMLFormEditor,
although it would be nice if Lenya would have to support only one
interface, e.g. WebDAV based.
Thanks
Michael
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: Proposal to remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor
Posted by Christian Egli <ch...@wyona.com>.
Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org> writes:
> I would like to suggest that we remove Xopus and Bitflux editor,
> except for the interfaces, such that
> people still can use them together with Lenya as third party
> tools. The interfaces are no problem, since they were programmed
> by myself.
>
> Remove Xopus and Bitflux Editor:
>
-1
I'm against throwing out all editors because I strive to have a
release of Lenya which can be used immediately after it has been
downloaded and installed. This can never be guaranteed if you depend on
a third party to provide an additional tool. Also integration can be
better tested and provided if we determine what version of the editor
we ship.
Just witness the posts on the user list re installation to see how
dependencies on moving targets can be daunting for an installation.
+1 to have only one editor
I'm all for having only one best-of-breed editor. This simplifies
maintenance, avoids user confusion, causes less questions on the user
list and moves us forward in many ways.
I guess best-of-breed editor at this point in time means the Bitflux
NG Editor.
--
Christian Egli christian.egli@wyona.com +41 1 272 9161
Wyona AG, Hardstrasse 219, CH-8005 Zurich
Open Source CMS http://www.wyona.org http://www.wyona.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-dev-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-dev-help@cocoon.apache.org