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Posted to dev@qpid.apache.org by Robert Godfrey <ro...@gmail.com> on 2008/09/30 20:12:15 UTC

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

I agree with Rafi - this should be separated from the client into a
separate top-level module of the java codebase

-- Rob

2008/9/30 Rafael Schloming <ra...@redhat.com>:
> Why was this stuff added to the client module? Isn't it a stand-alone app?
>
> --Rafael
>
> arnaudsimon@apache.org wrote:
>>
>> Author: arnaudsimon
>> Date: Mon Sep 29 05:02:54 2008
>> New Revision: 700077
>>
>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=700077&view=rev
>> Log:
>> qpid-1284: Qman on behalf Andrea
>>

 *snip*

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Rajith Attapattu <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Aidan Skinner <ai...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Robert Godfrey <ro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well - we've had a discussion previously where my opinion was that
> > having things cut primarily by language was silly, and that
> > broker/client was a bigger distinction... however since we primarily
> > cut by language first, and presuming this work depends on the Java
> > common stuff then i would suggest that to fit with the existing
> > structure it should go in Java...  however I am very open to
> > discussing a different structure for the project a a whole ;-)
>
> I hate our source layout with a passion. The top level trunk containing
> just
> qpid/ is remarkably irritating and makes merging between the branches a
> PITA. I'd rather see a split along functional terms. The build system would
> need to be complicated slightly to allow this, but a couple of simple
> Makefiles should be sufficent. I'd think something like:
>
> trunk/
>   broker/
>      java/
>      cpp/
>   client/
>      java/
>      cpp/
>      ruby/
>      python/
>   tools/
>      management/
>         jmx-gui/ <-- eclipse plugin
>         jmx-cli/ <-- JMX console
>         qman/
>
> etc.
>
> This might be a bit yak shavey though. I'd really like to have a clearer
> idea of where we are with the management tooling and where we're going with
> it. It seems very ad-hoc atm. A plan would be good.
>
> - Aidan
>

I like the idea a lot, but not sure how the following is handled.

1) As Rob pointed out, where is the common code going to live? Both java and
C++ have common code thats shared by the broker and client.

2) I am not sure if I agree with the tools source structure. Shouldn't it be
by language as well?
    Bcos currently we have tools in java, python and c++ (all though c++ is
more infrastructure than a tool)

3)  The impact on the build system?  I am sure ant and make could handle
this, but as Carl pointed out it will be a bit tricky for the first few
weeks.

My biggest concern is (1). If we can find a proper solution to that, then I
think the rest can be worked out.
Also it maybe best if we attempt this after M4 (if are to pursue this path).

Regards,

Rajith.

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Aidan Skinner <ai...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:


> This is pretty major shuffle, not sure such a move around is a good idea
> for M4. It is going to be build
> hell for a few weeks to make such a big change.


Yeah. I have no desire to do this imminently.

- Aidan

-- 
Apache Qpid - World Domination through Advanced Message Queueing
http://cwiki.apache.org/qpid
"Nine-tenths of wisdom consists in being wise in time." - Theodore Roosevelt

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
Robert Godfrey wrote:
> 2008/10/1 Aidan Skinner <ai...@apache.org>:
>   
>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Robert Godfrey <ro...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Well - we've had a discussion previously where my opinion was that
>>> having things cut primarily by language was silly, and that
>>> broker/client was a bigger distinction... however since we primarily
>>> cut by language first, and presuming this work depends on the Java
>>> common stuff then i would suggest that to fit with the existing
>>> structure it should go in Java...  however I am very open to
>>> discussing a different structure for the project a a whole ;-)
>>>       
>> I hate our source layout with a passion. The top level trunk containing just
>> qpid/ is remarkably irritating and makes merging between the branches a
>> PITA. I'd rather see a split along functional terms. The build system would
>> need to be complicated slightly to allow this, but a couple of simple
>> Makefiles should be sufficent. I'd think something like:
>>
>> trunk/
>>   broker/
>>      java/
>>      cpp/
>>   client/
>>      java/
>>      cpp/
>>      ruby/
>>      python/
>>   tools/
>>      management/
>>         jmx-gui/ <-- eclipse plugin
>>         jmx-cli/ <-- JMX console
>>         qman/
>>
>> etc.
>>     
>
> +1 From me... The only caveat being that there is an awful lot of
> codec and infrastructure type stuff that it makes sense to share
> between a client and a broker written in the same language (i.e. most
> of the stuff that is currently in java/common for Java (and I'm sure
> C++ has similar).  IMHO the Java client should have more in common
> functionality and release schedule wise with the C++ client than it
> does with the Java Broker... otherwise what we will get are two
> divergent products: a Java Broker/Client and a C++ Broker/Client (with
> Ruby/Python et al being left somewhat in the shade...
>
> however we've had this discussion before and I remember being in the
> minority :-)
>
> -- Rob
>
>   
>> This might be a bit yak shavey though. I'd really like to have a clearer
>> idea of where we are with the management tooling and where we're going with
>> it. It seems very ad-hoc atm. A plan would be good.
>>
>> - Aidan
>>
>> --
>> Apache Qpid - World Domination through Advanced Message Queueing
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/qpid
>> "Nine-tenths of wisdom consists in being wise in time." - Theodore Roosevelt
>>
>>     

This is pretty major shuffle, not sure such a move around is a good idea 
for M4. It is going to be build
hell for a few weeks to make such a big change.

- few things the structure above does not handle, if the agents etc on 
each lang on top of the tools.
- where do the common generators live? (qmf-gen) which broker and agents 
have a dependency on
- do we introduce a high level 'common' directory'?
- do we create an agent dir under client and then repeat the language 
structure under that?

Carl.

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Robert Godfrey <ro...@gmail.com>.
2008/10/1 Aidan Skinner <ai...@apache.org>:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Robert Godfrey <ro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Well - we've had a discussion previously where my opinion was that
>> having things cut primarily by language was silly, and that
>> broker/client was a bigger distinction... however since we primarily
>> cut by language first, and presuming this work depends on the Java
>> common stuff then i would suggest that to fit with the existing
>> structure it should go in Java...  however I am very open to
>> discussing a different structure for the project a a whole ;-)
>
> I hate our source layout with a passion. The top level trunk containing just
> qpid/ is remarkably irritating and makes merging between the branches a
> PITA. I'd rather see a split along functional terms. The build system would
> need to be complicated slightly to allow this, but a couple of simple
> Makefiles should be sufficent. I'd think something like:
>
> trunk/
>   broker/
>      java/
>      cpp/
>   client/
>      java/
>      cpp/
>      ruby/
>      python/
>   tools/
>      management/
>         jmx-gui/ <-- eclipse plugin
>         jmx-cli/ <-- JMX console
>         qman/
>
> etc.

+1 From me... The only caveat being that there is an awful lot of
codec and infrastructure type stuff that it makes sense to share
between a client and a broker written in the same language (i.e. most
of the stuff that is currently in java/common for Java (and I'm sure
C++ has similar).  IMHO the Java client should have more in common
functionality and release schedule wise with the C++ client than it
does with the Java Broker... otherwise what we will get are two
divergent products: a Java Broker/Client and a C++ Broker/Client (with
Ruby/Python et al being left somewhat in the shade...

however we've had this discussion before and I remember being in the
minority :-)

-- Rob

>
> This might be a bit yak shavey though. I'd really like to have a clearer
> idea of where we are with the management tooling and where we're going with
> it. It seems very ad-hoc atm. A plan would be good.
>
> - Aidan
>
> --
> Apache Qpid - World Domination through Advanced Message Queueing
> http://cwiki.apache.org/qpid
> "Nine-tenths of wisdom consists in being wise in time." - Theodore Roosevelt
>

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Aidan Skinner <ai...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Robert Godfrey <ro...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Well - we've had a discussion previously where my opinion was that
> having things cut primarily by language was silly, and that
> broker/client was a bigger distinction... however since we primarily
> cut by language first, and presuming this work depends on the Java
> common stuff then i would suggest that to fit with the existing
> structure it should go in Java...  however I am very open to
> discussing a different structure for the project a a whole ;-)

I hate our source layout with a passion. The top level trunk containing just
qpid/ is remarkably irritating and makes merging between the branches a
PITA. I'd rather see a split along functional terms. The build system would
need to be complicated slightly to allow this, but a couple of simple
Makefiles should be sufficent. I'd think something like:

trunk/
   broker/
      java/
      cpp/
   client/
      java/
      cpp/
      ruby/
      python/
   tools/
      management/
         jmx-gui/ <-- eclipse plugin
         jmx-cli/ <-- JMX console
         qman/

etc.

This might be a bit yak shavey though. I'd really like to have a clearer
idea of where we are with the management tooling and where we're going with
it. It seems very ad-hoc atm. A plan would be good.

- Aidan

-- 
Apache Qpid - World Domination through Advanced Message Queueing
http://cwiki.apache.org/qpid
"Nine-tenths of wisdom consists in being wise in time." - Theodore Roosevelt

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Robert Godfrey <ro...@gmail.com>.
Well - we've had a discussion previously where my opinion was that
having things cut primarily by language was silly, and that
broker/client was a bigger distinction... however since we primarily
cut by language first, and presuming this work depends on the Java
common stuff then i would suggest that to fit with the existing
structure it should go in Java...  however I am very open to
discussing a different structure for the project a a whole ;-)

-- rob

2008/9/30 Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>:
>
> I might not want to say do this but here it comes.....
>
> do we not want to create a qmf directory under qpid, and the repeat the
> java, cpp, python etc dir structure
> under that for all the qmf bridges, tools and consoles etc.
>
> Carl.
>
>
> Robert Godfrey wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Rafi - this should be separated from the client into a
>> separate top-level module of the java codebase
>>
>> -- Rob
>>
>> 2008/9/30 Rafael Schloming <ra...@redhat.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> Why was this stuff added to the client module? Isn't it a stand-alone
>>> app?
>>>
>>> --Rafael
>>>
>>> arnaudsimon@apache.org wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Author: arnaudsimon
>>>> Date: Mon Sep 29 05:02:54 2008
>>>> New Revision: 700077
>>>>
>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=700077&view=rev
>>>> Log:
>>>> qpid-1284: Qman on behalf Andrea
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>  *snip*
>>
>
>

Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
I might not want to say do this but here it comes.....

do we not want to create a qmf directory under qpid, and the repeat the 
java, cpp, python etc dir structure
under that for all the qmf bridges, tools and consoles etc.

Carl.


Robert Godfrey wrote:
> I agree with Rafi - this should be separated from the client into a
> separate top-level module of the java codebase
>
> -- Rob
>
> 2008/9/30 Rafael Schloming <ra...@redhat.com>:
>   
>> Why was this stuff added to the client module? Isn't it a stand-alone app?
>>
>> --Rafael
>>
>> arnaudsimon@apache.org wrote:
>>     
>>> Author: arnaudsimon
>>> Date: Mon Sep 29 05:02:54 2008
>>> New Revision: 700077
>>>
>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=700077&view=rev
>>> Log:
>>> qpid-1284: Qman on behalf Andrea
>>>
>>>       
>
>  *snip*
>   


Re: svn commit: r700077 [1/4] - in /incubator/qpid/trunk/qpid/java: client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/configuration/ client/src/main/java/org/apache/qpid/management/domain/ client/src/mai

Posted by Rafael Schloming <ra...@redhat.com>.
Robert Godfrey wrote:
> I agree with Rafi - this should be separated from the client into a
> separate top-level module of the java codebase

There are top level "tools" and "management" directories which may also 
be appropriate places.

--Rafael