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Posted to dev@velocity.apache.org by Rob Harrop <ro...@robharrop.com> on 2004/02/13 16:08:06 UTC
Velocity Book
Hi Guys,
I am ploughing through the book and I reached something that I was a little
unfamiliar with - that is the topic of the JarResourceLoader and caching. I
was unsure whether or not that caching worked alongside the
JarResourceLoader and from trawling the source code it seems that the jar
resources will always appear as though they have been modified therefore
they will always be reloaded. Is this the case or have I missed anything?
Whilst we are on the subject which of the resourceloaders do support caching
and which don't?
Rob Harrop
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Dave Newton <da...@solaraccess.com>.
On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 11:49, Rob Harrop wrote:
> You sure - even if I include a chapter on the history of the toothpick,
> quite an interesting story I think you'll find ;)
It'll only be a computer-like book if it includes at least fifty
examples, in detail, and perhaps with annotations, of how to initialize
the toothpick, identical, of course, every time.
Dave
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Rob Harrop <ro...@robharrop.com>.
You sure - even if I include a chapter on the history of the toothpick,
quite an interesting story I think you'll find ;)
Rob
On 16/2/04 3:31 pm, "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es> wrote:
> Rob Harrop wrote:
>> Give me a couple of days and I'll have your toothpick article ready :)
>
> Great, Rob, but I should point out that the fact that you are capable of
> writing such an article does not mean that I am capable of reading
> it.... :-)
>
> Jonathan Revusky
> --
> lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
> FreeMarker-Velocity comparison page: http://freemarker.org/fmVsVel.html
>
>
>>
>> On 16/2/04 8:01 am, "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Rob Harrop wrote:
>>>
>>>> Velocity is quite trivial in what in does but there is plenty to talk about
>>>> and also plenty of others tools that go with it.
>>>
>>> Well, to single out the Velocity book is probably unfair. Consider this
>>> book on ant:
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930110588/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/
>>> 00
>>> 2-2958345-6352863?v=glance&s=books&st=*
>>>
>>> 672 pages on using that little ant build tool. You know, that's a volume
>>> of verbiage comparable to certain classics of universal literature --
>>> Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy, Les Misérables by Victor Hugo....
>>>
>>> Might as well face it, man. The whole thing *is* ridiculous. I submit
>>> that anybody capable of writing 380 pages on Velocity or 670 pages on
>>> ant would also be up to writing a 20 page essay on the proper use of a
>>> toothpick!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: velocity-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: velocity-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <re...@wanadoo.es>.
Rob Harrop wrote:
> Give me a couple of days and I'll have your toothpick article ready :)
Great, Rob, but I should point out that the fact that you are capable of
writing such an article does not mean that I am capable of reading
it.... :-)
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison page: http://freemarker.org/fmVsVel.html
>
> On 16/2/04 8:01 am, "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es> wrote:
>
>
>>Rob Harrop wrote:
>>
>>>Velocity is quite trivial in what in does but there is plenty to talk about
>>>and also plenty of others tools that go with it.
>>
>>Well, to single out the Velocity book is probably unfair. Consider this
>>book on ant:
>>
>>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930110588/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/00
>>2-2958345-6352863?v=glance&s=books&st=*
>>
>>672 pages on using that little ant build tool. You know, that's a volume
>>of verbiage comparable to certain classics of universal literature --
>>Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy, Les Misérables by Victor Hugo....
>>
>>Might as well face it, man. The whole thing *is* ridiculous. I submit
>>that anybody capable of writing 380 pages on Velocity or 670 pages on
>>ant would also be up to writing a 20 page essay on the proper use of a
>>toothpick!
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>For additional commands, e-mail: velocity-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Antoine Lévy-Lambert <an...@apache.org>.
Daniel Dekany wrote:
>And, as a side note, I guess that if people has real demand for a book
>for simple tool, the it possibly indicates that documentation comes with
>the product is poor.
>
>
>
Let me take ant as example,
The ant documentation supplied as part of ant is a good reference about
the ant tasks and datatypes, and gives an introduction to some thematic
issues like "How can you extend ant ?".
The Erik Hatcher and Steve Loughran book about ant "Java Development
with Ant" adds a lot of value by giving a number of "best practices"
suggestions, showing how to use Ant in combination with other tools, ...
It is perfectly possible to use ant just with the manual which is part
of the distro. The book is a good add-on for people who want to know more.
>I don't know the books above, but I found that the size of technical
>books is often big because most of the book is reference info
>(Appendices).
True, appendices should be avoided when they can be replaced by online
information.
Cheers,
Antoine
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Daniel Dekany <dd...@freemail.hu>.
Monday, February 16, 2004, 9:01:50 AM, Jonathan Revusky wrote:
> Rob Harrop wrote:
>> Velocity is quite trivial in what in does but there is plenty to talk about
>> and also plenty of others tools that go with it.
>
> Well, to single out the Velocity book is probably unfair. Consider this
> book on ant:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930110588/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/002-2958345-6352863?v=glance&s=books&st=*
>
> 672 pages on using that little ant build tool. You know, that's a volume
> of verbiage comparable to certain classics of universal literature --
> Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy, Les Misérables by Victor Hugo....
(I'm curious how long FM docs would be in book form... :) If we had a
PDF version, that is demanded be some users anyway, I would know...
well... :-/ TODO)
> Might as well face it, man. The whole thing *is* ridiculous. I submit
> that anybody capable of writing 380 pages on Velocity or 670 pages on
> ant would also be up to writing a 20 page essay on the proper use of a
> toothpick!
I don't know the books above, but I found that the size of technical
books is often big because most of the book is reference info
(Appendices). For example, I have seen a book about Java, and most of
the book was the Java API reference... you can imagine how long is that.
As of why is it good to print a reference to paper, I don't know...
(Well, of course I do know: You can ask more money for your book if it
seems to contain more info, i.e. if it is longer. Beginners don't
realize that most of the book is the API ref, that they can download
freely...) references are much usable in HTML or even in PDF form. Other
nice size growing trick can be including lot of screen shots, and
needlessly print the source code of complex demo apps, ...etc. Not to
mention big row distance :)...
And, as a side note, I guess that if people has real demand for a book
for simple tool, the it possibly indicates that documentation comes with
the product is poor.
--
Best regards,
Daniel Dekany
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Rob Harrop <ro...@robharrop.com>.
Give me a couple of days and I'll have your toothpick article ready :)
On 16/2/04 8:01 am, "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es> wrote:
> Rob Harrop wrote:
>> Velocity is quite trivial in what in does but there is plenty to talk about
>> and also plenty of others tools that go with it.
>
> Well, to single out the Velocity book is probably unfair. Consider this
> book on ant:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930110588/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/00
> 2-2958345-6352863?v=glance&s=books&st=*
>
> 672 pages on using that little ant build tool. You know, that's a volume
> of verbiage comparable to certain classics of universal literature --
> Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy, Les Misérables by Victor Hugo....
>
> Might as well face it, man. The whole thing *is* ridiculous. I submit
> that anybody capable of writing 380 pages on Velocity or 670 pages on
> ant would also be up to writing a 20 page essay on the proper use of a
> toothpick!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jonathan Revusky
> --
> lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
> FreeMarker-Velocity comparison page: http://freemarker.org/fmVsVel.html
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: velocity-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: velocity-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <re...@wanadoo.es>.
Rob Harrop wrote:
> Velocity is quite trivial in what in does but there is plenty to talk about
> and also plenty of others tools that go with it.
Well, to single out the Velocity book is probably unfair. Consider this
book on ant:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930110588/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/002-2958345-6352863?v=glance&s=books&st=*
672 pages on using that little ant build tool. You know, that's a volume
of verbiage comparable to certain classics of universal literature --
Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy, Les Misérables by Victor Hugo....
Might as well face it, man. The whole thing *is* ridiculous. I submit
that anybody capable of writing 380 pages on Velocity or 670 pages on
ant would also be up to writing a 20 page essay on the proper use of a
toothpick!
Regards,
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison page: http://freemarker.org/fmVsVel.html
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Rob Harrop <ro...@robharrop.com>.
Velocity is quite trivial in what in does but there is plenty to talk about
and also plenty of others tools that go with it.
On the jar caching front I fired up the debugger and traced it through to
determine the behaviour - now I can include that in the book :)
Rob
On 15/2/04 9:38 pm, "Jonathan Revusky" <re...@wanadoo.es> wrote:
> Rob Harrop wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I am ploughing through the book and I reached something that I was a little
>> unfamiliar with - that is the topic of the JarResourceLoader and caching. I
>> was unsure whether or not that caching worked alongside the
>> JarResourceLoader and from trawling the source code it seems that the jar
>> resources will always appear as though they have been modified therefore
>> they will always be reloaded. Is this the case or have I missed anything?
>> Whilst we are on the subject which of the resourceloaders do support caching
>> and which don't?
>>
>> Rob Harrop
>
> Out of idle curiosity, I looked into this and quickly hit:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471457949/ref%3Dsr%5Faps%5Fbooks%5F1%5
> F1/002-2958345-6352863
>
> I am wondering:
>
> A. Frankly, I perceive Velocity as a fairly trivial tool.... How the
> hell did someone write a 372-page book about Velocity????!!!!!
>
> B. Given that they wrote 372 pages about the subject (which seems
> frankly impossible) how is it that there are basic topics like loading
> pages from a .jar file that are not covered completely in those 372
> pages????
>
> Anyway.... the whole thing is surreal really.....
>
> Jonathan Revusky
> --
> lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
> FreeMarker-Velocity comparison page: http://freemarker.org/fmVsVel.html
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: velocity-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: velocity-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Velocity Book
Posted by Jonathan Revusky <re...@wanadoo.es>.
Rob Harrop wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I am ploughing through the book and I reached something that I was a little
> unfamiliar with - that is the topic of the JarResourceLoader and caching. I
> was unsure whether or not that caching worked alongside the
> JarResourceLoader and from trawling the source code it seems that the jar
> resources will always appear as though they have been modified therefore
> they will always be reloaded. Is this the case or have I missed anything?
> Whilst we are on the subject which of the resourceloaders do support caching
> and which don't?
>
> Rob Harrop
Out of idle curiosity, I looked into this and quickly hit:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471457949/ref%3Dsr%5Faps%5Fbooks%5F1%5F1/002-2958345-6352863
I am wondering:
A. Frankly, I perceive Velocity as a fairly trivial tool.... How the
hell did someone write a 372-page book about Velocity????!!!!!
B. Given that they wrote 372 pages about the subject (which seems
frankly impossible) how is it that there are basic topics like loading
pages from a .jar file that are not covered completely in those 372
pages????
Anyway.... the whole thing is surreal really.....
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
FreeMarker-Velocity comparison page: http://freemarker.org/fmVsVel.html
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