What is a member?

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

(moving to community@)

Hi gang!

In the message below, Jim basically says that either a lot
of committers are not 'serious', or that he holds a minority
opinion, or...there is some other reason why there are
dozens of committers (even asf officers) who are not
members. Eh?

I've seen messages like this float around on various
mailing lists for months from various ASF elders, and it
has all become quite confusing.

---

What is an ASF member?

The legal answer is in the bylaws, but the practical answer
which flows from that is not. What does a member do?
What priviledges and responsibilities does a member have?

What characteristics make someone a candidate member
(there's an election every now and then by the current
members, IIUC)? What characteristics make someone 'fail'
candidacy? What's the decision process?

What is discussed on members@, and why is it discussed
there (as opposed to a forum with broader participation)?

---

just some of many questions I believe many of the
'serious' committers-but-not-members all around apache
have. Membership has always been 'shrouded in mystery'
for many, which is, I guess, okay to a point (who am I to
judge? :D), but not when it becomes difficult to make the
right decisions as a 'member' of the/an ASF community
or a PMC.

Thanks for any and all answers!

back to my corner,

- Leo

Jim Jagielski wrote:

> On Nov 21, 2003, at 6:05 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
>
>> FWIW - I went into this a little recently.
>>
>> I am not a member, but I am the chair of the XML PMC.  I was also 
>> part of the XML PMC before I became chair.
>>
>> I specifically asked the question about whether non-members was OK 
>> (in both a chair and a "part of" role) and was told it is absolutely 
>> fine in both cases.
>
> Yes, it is OK. As Chair, though, you are an officer of
> the foundation. So being an officer of a foundation of
> which you aren't a member is kind of weird :)
>
> The main idea is that the ASF is *member* driven. The
> "power and authority" really rests with the members. If
> someone has enough interest to be a serious committer (and
> they would not have been given commit privs if that
> wasn't the case) I would want them to also be a member
> of the organization that they are working "for", if
> only for the legal considerations. 



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Re: What is a member?

[Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>]

Community Members,

If any of you are interested in participating in the incubation
process for new ASF projects, please join general@incubator.apache.org.



Leo,

Please NEVER cross-post from a PMC mailing list to any other mailing
list. Although this particular thread should have long ago moved
to the general@ list (and I'm just as guilty as anyone else for
that), cross-posting potentially sensitive posts that were intended
for PMC eyes only is very inappropriate.

Thank you,
-aaron


On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 09:47:57AM +0100, Leo Simons wrote:
> (moving to community@)
> 
> Hi gang!
> 
> In the message below, Jim basically says that either a lot
> of committers are not 'serious', or that he holds a minority
> opinion, or...there is some other reason why there are
> dozens of committers (even asf officers) who are not
> members. Eh?
> 
> I've seen messages like this float around on various
> mailing lists for months from various ASF elders, and it
> has all become quite confusing.
> 
> ---
> 
> What is an ASF member?
> 
> The legal answer is in the bylaws, but the practical answer
> which flows from that is not. What does a member do?
> What priviledges and responsibilities does a member have?
> 
> What characteristics make someone a candidate member
> (there's an election every now and then by the current
> members, IIUC)? What characteristics make someone 'fail'
> candidacy? What's the decision process?
> 
> What is discussed on members@, and why is it discussed
> there (as opposed to a forum with broader participation)?
> 
> ---
> 
> just some of many questions I believe many of the
> 'serious' committers-but-not-members all around apache
> have. Membership has always been 'shrouded in mystery'
> for many, which is, I guess, okay to a point (who am I to
> judge? :D), but not when it becomes difficult to make the
> right decisions as a 'member' of the/an ASF community
> or a PMC.
> 
> Thanks for any and all answers!
> 
> back to my corner,
> 
> - Leo
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
> 
> >On Nov 21, 2003, at 6:05 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> >
> >>FWIW - I went into this a little recently.
> >>
> >>I am not a member, but I am the chair of the XML PMC.  I was also 
> >>part of the XML PMC before I became chair.
> >>
> >>I specifically asked the question about whether non-members was OK 
> >>(in both a chair and a "part of" role) and was told it is absolutely 
> >>fine in both cases.
> >
> >Yes, it is OK. As Chair, though, you are an officer of
> >the foundation. So being an officer of a foundation of
> >which you aren't a member is kind of weird :)
> >
> >The main idea is that the ASF is *member* driven. The
> >"power and authority" really rests with the members. If
> >someone has enough interest to be a serious committer (and
> >they would not have been given commit privs if that
> >wasn't the case) I would want them to also be a member
> >of the organization that they are working "for", if
> >only for the legal considerations. 
> 
> 
> 
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