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Posted to users@cloudstack.apache.org by Mark van der Meulen <ma...@fivenynes.com> on 2013/08/12 10:10:03 UTC
understanding cloudstack networking
Hi,
I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have to go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host even setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start playing.
Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud, essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24) and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public network(do they have to be separate?)
I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy, iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal, external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then how do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate it.
Mark
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Nguyen Anh Tu <ng...@gmail.com>.
2013/8/14 Chiradeep Vittal <Ch...@citrix.com>
> Actually this is not quite true. You can design a network offering with no
> NAT or firewall services and give a public range of ips for the network.
> Or you (the admin) can utilize the default 'shared network' offering to
> create a similar network on a specific VLAN.
>
Thanks Chiradeep for the information!
--
N.g.U.y.e.N.A.n.H.t.U
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Chiradeep Vittal <Ch...@citrix.com>.
http://www.slideshare.net/ShapeBlue/cloud-stack-networking-shapeblue-techni
cal-deep-dive
On 8/13/13 10:32 PM, "Mark van der Meulen" <ma...@vdm.id.au> wrote:
>Does anyone have links to a more comprehensive design or implementation
>guide?
>
>Doco is vague at best, and that slideshow is hardly helpful when it comes
>to implementation.
>
>Mark
>
>On 14/08/2013, at 10:23 AM, Ahmad Emneina <ae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> True, you can have a shared network with public ips, that way vm's get
>> public ip's assigned to them directly on launch.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Chiradeep Vittal <
>> Chiradeep.Vittal@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.slideshare.net/cloudstack/cloudstack-networking (slides 17
>>>and
>>> 18)
>>>
>>> On 8/13/13 3:44 PM, "Chiradeep Vittal" <Ch...@citrix.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually this is not quite true. You can design a network offering
>>>>with no
>>>> NAT or firewall services and give a public range of ips for the
>>>>network.
>>>> Or you (the admin) can utilize the default 'shared network' offering
>>>>to
>>>> create a similar network on a specific VLAN.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/13/13 7:03 AM, "Nguyen Anh Tu" <ng...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 2013/8/13 Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you saying that the only way CloudStack supports public(read:
>>>>>> networks
>>>>>> outside immediate pod) access is via NAT? Can I not give the VM's
>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>> routable IP's(or equivalent for the network)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>> At the moment Cloudstack only supports public access via NAT
>>>>>(staticNat
>>>>> or
>>>>> sourceNat). For using Route instead of NAT, I made a small patch.
>>>>>You can
>>>>> find the reference here:
>>>>>
>>>
>>>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Routing+between+G
>>>u
>>>>> e
>>>>> st+networks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> N.g.U.y.e.N.A.n.H.t.U
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>.
Does anyone have links to a more comprehensive design or implementation guide?
Doco is vague at best, and that slideshow is hardly helpful when it comes to implementation.
Mark
On 14/08/2013, at 10:23 AM, Ahmad Emneina <ae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> True, you can have a shared network with public ips, that way vm's get
> public ip's assigned to them directly on launch.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Chiradeep Vittal <
> Chiradeep.Vittal@citrix.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.slideshare.net/cloudstack/cloudstack-networking (slides 17 and
>> 18)
>>
>> On 8/13/13 3:44 PM, "Chiradeep Vittal" <Ch...@citrix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually this is not quite true. You can design a network offering with no
>>> NAT or firewall services and give a public range of ips for the network.
>>> Or you (the admin) can utilize the default 'shared network' offering to
>>> create a similar network on a specific VLAN.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/13/13 7:03 AM, "Nguyen Anh Tu" <ng...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 2013/8/13 Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>
>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying that the only way CloudStack supports public(read:
>>>>> networks
>>>>> outside immediate pod) access is via NAT? Can I not give the VM's
>>>>> publicly
>>>>> routable IP's(or equivalent for the network)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
>>>> At the moment Cloudstack only supports public access via NAT (staticNat
>>>> or
>>>> sourceNat). For using Route instead of NAT, I made a small patch. You can
>>>> find the reference here:
>>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Routing+between+Gu
>>>> e
>>>> st+networks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> N.g.U.y.e.N.A.n.H.t.U
>>>
>>
>>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Ahmad Emneina <ae...@gmail.com>.
True, you can have a shared network with public ips, that way vm's get
public ip's assigned to them directly on launch.
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Chiradeep Vittal <
Chiradeep.Vittal@citrix.com> wrote:
> http://www.slideshare.net/cloudstack/cloudstack-networking (slides 17 and
> 18)
>
> On 8/13/13 3:44 PM, "Chiradeep Vittal" <Ch...@citrix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Actually this is not quite true. You can design a network offering with no
> >NAT or firewall services and give a public range of ips for the network.
> >Or you (the admin) can utilize the default 'shared network' offering to
> >create a similar network on a specific VLAN.
> >
> >
> >On 8/13/13 7:03 AM, "Nguyen Anh Tu" <ng...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>2013/8/13 Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>
> >>
> >>> Are you saying that the only way CloudStack supports public(read:
> >>>networks
> >>> outside immediate pod) access is via NAT? Can I not give the VM's
> >>>publicly
> >>> routable IP's(or equivalent for the network)?
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi Mark,
> >>
> >>At the moment Cloudstack only supports public access via NAT (staticNat
> >>or
> >>sourceNat). For using Route instead of NAT, I made a small patch. You can
> >>find the reference here:
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Routing+between+Gu
> >>e
> >>st+networks
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>N.g.U.y.e.N.A.n.H.t.U
> >
>
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Chiradeep Vittal <Ch...@citrix.com>.
http://www.slideshare.net/cloudstack/cloudstack-networking (slides 17 and
18)
On 8/13/13 3:44 PM, "Chiradeep Vittal" <Ch...@citrix.com> wrote:
>Actually this is not quite true. You can design a network offering with no
>NAT or firewall services and give a public range of ips for the network.
>Or you (the admin) can utilize the default 'shared network' offering to
>create a similar network on a specific VLAN.
>
>
>On 8/13/13 7:03 AM, "Nguyen Anh Tu" <ng...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>2013/8/13 Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>
>>
>>> Are you saying that the only way CloudStack supports public(read:
>>>networks
>>> outside immediate pod) access is via NAT? Can I not give the VM's
>>>publicly
>>> routable IP's(or equivalent for the network)?
>>
>>
>>Hi Mark,
>>
>>At the moment Cloudstack only supports public access via NAT (staticNat
>>or
>>sourceNat). For using Route instead of NAT, I made a small patch. You can
>>find the reference here:
>>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Routing+between+Gu
>>e
>>st+networks
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>N.g.U.y.e.N.A.n.H.t.U
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Chiradeep Vittal <Ch...@citrix.com>.
Actually this is not quite true. You can design a network offering with no
NAT or firewall services and give a public range of ips for the network.
Or you (the admin) can utilize the default 'shared network' offering to
create a similar network on a specific VLAN.
On 8/13/13 7:03 AM, "Nguyen Anh Tu" <ng...@gmail.com> wrote:
>2013/8/13 Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>
>
>> Are you saying that the only way CloudStack supports public(read:
>>networks
>> outside immediate pod) access is via NAT? Can I not give the VM's
>>publicly
>> routable IP's(or equivalent for the network)?
>
>
>Hi Mark,
>
>At the moment Cloudstack only supports public access via NAT (staticNat or
>sourceNat). For using Route instead of NAT, I made a small patch. You can
>find the reference here:
>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Routing+between+Gue
>st+networks
>
>
>--
>
>N.g.U.y.e.N.A.n.H.t.U
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Nguyen Anh Tu <ng...@gmail.com>.
2013/8/13 Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>
> Are you saying that the only way CloudStack supports public(read: networks
> outside immediate pod) access is via NAT? Can I not give the VM's publicly
> routable IP's(or equivalent for the network)?
Hi Mark,
At the moment Cloudstack only supports public access via NAT (staticNat or
sourceNat). For using Route instead of NAT, I made a small patch. You can
find the reference here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Routing+between+Guest+networks
--
N.g.U.y.e.N.A.n.H.t.U
RE: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Mark van der Meulen <ma...@vdm.id.au>.
Thanks for your help.
Are you saying that the only way CloudStack supports public(read: networks outside immediate pod) access is via NAT? Can I not give the VM's publicly routable IP's(or equivalent for the network)?
If not, why not?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Ahmad Emneina [mailto:aemneina@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 1:28 AM
To: Cloudstack users mailing list
Subject: Re: understanding cloudstack networking
>>Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud,
essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24)
and storage on another network(let's say10.1.253.0/24) and then all the
VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to
do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public
network(do they have to be separate?)
using this info how I'd setup this specific cloud in cloudstack is. have
your public network on a vlan, say 200. trunk that down to your hosts.
You'll also need a zone vlan range... 300-400. How these manifest in
cloudstack is; whenever a user creates a vm on a guest isolated network, a
vlan will be plucked from that range, and used to create an isolated
network. whatever you defined as your guest cidr in the zone creation
wizard. this is where your guests will reside. each account will have the
same isolated network 'range' or segment, if theyre using the guest
isolation method. a virtual router is created, with a leg on the public
network, a leg on the guest isolated network and another private address(
we wont worry about that for now). These dont impact your private networks
since those should be separate from your virtual infra. from there your
vm's public traffic will route out through the VR on its public leg. one
can setup NAT rules to surface services setup on the guest vm's. Hopefully
that gives you a better picture of how this fits together... feel free to
ask more questions and file bugs on the docs!!! :)
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen <ma...@fivenynes.com>wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking
> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup
> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have
> to go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host
> even setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
> playing.
>
> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud,
> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24)
> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the
> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how
> to do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and
> Public network(do they have to be separate?)
>
> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to
> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy,
> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then
> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM
> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>
> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal,
> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set
> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then
> how do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
>
> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate
> it.
>
> Mark
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Ahmad Emneina <ae...@gmail.com>.
>>Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud,
essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24)
and storage on another network(let's say10.1.253.0/24) and then all the
VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to
do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public
network(do they have to be separate?)
using this info how I'd setup this specific cloud in cloudstack is. have
your public network on a vlan, say 200. trunk that down to your hosts.
You'll also need a zone vlan range... 300-400. How these manifest in
cloudstack is; whenever a user creates a vm on a guest isolated network, a
vlan will be plucked from that range, and used to create an isolated
network. whatever you defined as your guest cidr in the zone creation
wizard. this is where your guests will reside. each account will have the
same isolated network 'range' or segment, if theyre using the guest
isolation method. a virtual router is created, with a leg on the public
network, a leg on the guest isolated network and another private address(
we wont worry about that for now). These dont impact your private networks
since those should be separate from your virtual infra. from there your
vm's public traffic will route out through the VR on its public leg. one
can setup NAT rules to surface services setup on the guest vm's. Hopefully
that gives you a better picture of how this fits together... feel free to
ask more questions and file bugs on the docs!!! :)
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen <ma...@fivenynes.com>wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking
> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup
> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have
> to go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host
> even setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
> playing.
>
> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud,
> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24)
> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the
> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how
> to do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and
> Public network(do they have to be separate?)
>
> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to
> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy,
> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then
> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM
> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>
> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal,
> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set
> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then
> how do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
>
> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate
> it.
>
> Mark
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Kelcey Jamison Damage <ke...@bbits.ca>.
One last note. As far as stability is concerned... 4.1.x is the recommended build, and many of us(myself included) are running our production on 4.0.2 which is rock solid for all standard features.
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelcey Jamison Damage" <ke...@bbits.ca>
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:49:42 AM
Subject: Re: understanding cloudstack networking
I'm just going to chime in on this. What we need to put together is a primer. Our docs work fairly well and are CloudStack centric, which I see as most peoples issue. On the topic of networking, building a cloud requires a very strong understanding of core Linux networking, which is technically outside the responsibilities of our project. This does not mean however that community members can not create primer guides, and many have... There is mostly a difficulty in new users finding these resources.
On the topic of 4.2, we all knew some big changes were coming, but it did feel like a couple strange housekeeping items snuck in under the radar that affected how certain components work. An example of this would be the new network interface handling from a user perspective.
I am more then happy to assist people with install and setup issues on the networking side of things, as collecting data on what parts of the process are most difficult would be quite valuable to us.
Thanks
Kelcey Damage
kdamage@apache.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daan Hoogland" <da...@gmail.com>
To: rwheeler@artifact-software.com, users@cloudstack.apache.org
Cc: "Travis Graham" <t...@tgraham.us>, "dev" <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 8:02:22 AM
Subject: Re: understanding cloudstack networking
sounds great Ron,
I'm sure I am not the guy you need for this but I'll keep an eye on
it. The 'someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say' is
bound to be around on this list or dev.
regards,
Daan
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Ron Wheeler
<rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
> I have been reading and correcting the posted 4.2 documentation changes that
> I understand or where the English errors are very clear.
>
> I have filed JIRAs and some have been fixed.
>
> I would be willing to participate in a workshop to walk through the
> installation with someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On 12/08/2013 10:41 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>
>> you are right Ron, but even those companies/people can only spend
>> their time once. So please submit you improvements whenever you can.
>>
>> regards,
>> Daan
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Ron Wheeler
>> <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/08/2013 10:08 AM, Travis Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the
>>>> documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and
>>>> Ubuntu instructions.
>>>>
>>>> I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides
>>>> would reduce a lot of confusion.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not
>>>> seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that
>>>> haven't
>>>> been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
>>>
>>> I hope that this gets done. It is the biggest problem that CloudStack has
>>> in
>>> getting traction.
>>>
>>> You only get one chance to make a first impression and the impression at
>>> the
>>> moment is that the system does not work and is not ready for prime time
>>> except for organizations that have a development group ready to read the
>>> code and fix the docs for their installation.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler
>>>> <rw...@artifact-software.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and
>>>>> missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are
>>>>> leading.
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I
>>>>> hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki
>>>>> documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack
>>>>>> networking
>>>>>> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
>>>>>> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to
>>>>>> setup
>>>>>> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
>>>>>> playing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public
>>>>>> Cloud,
>>>>>> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say
>>>>>> 10.1.254.0/24)
>>>>>> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand
>>>>>> how to
>>>>>> do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and
>>>>>> Public
>>>>>> network(do they have to be separate?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
>>>>>> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be
>>>>>> easy,
>>>>>> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with
>>>>>> KVM
>>>>>> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS
>>>>>> servers(internal,
>>>>>> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when
>>>>>> I set
>>>>>> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks -
>>>>>> then how
>>>>>> do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across
>>>>>> hypervisors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really
>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Kelcey Jamison Damage <ke...@bbits.ca>.
I'm just going to chime in on this. What we need to put together is a primer. Our docs work fairly well and are CloudStack centric, which I see as most peoples issue. On the topic of networking, building a cloud requires a very strong understanding of core Linux networking, which is technically outside the responsibilities of our project. This does not mean however that community members can not create primer guides, and many have... There is mostly a difficulty in new users finding these resources.
On the topic of 4.2, we all knew some big changes were coming, but it did feel like a couple strange housekeeping items snuck in under the radar that affected how certain components work. An example of this would be the new network interface handling from a user perspective.
I am more then happy to assist people with install and setup issues on the networking side of things, as collecting data on what parts of the process are most difficult would be quite valuable to us.
Thanks
Kelcey Damage
kdamage@apache.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daan Hoogland" <da...@gmail.com>
To: rwheeler@artifact-software.com, users@cloudstack.apache.org
Cc: "Travis Graham" <t...@tgraham.us>, "dev" <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 8:02:22 AM
Subject: Re: understanding cloudstack networking
sounds great Ron,
I'm sure I am not the guy you need for this but I'll keep an eye on
it. The 'someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say' is
bound to be around on this list or dev.
regards,
Daan
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Ron Wheeler
<rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
> I have been reading and correcting the posted 4.2 documentation changes that
> I understand or where the English errors are very clear.
>
> I have filed JIRAs and some have been fixed.
>
> I would be willing to participate in a workshop to walk through the
> installation with someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On 12/08/2013 10:41 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>
>> you are right Ron, but even those companies/people can only spend
>> their time once. So please submit you improvements whenever you can.
>>
>> regards,
>> Daan
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Ron Wheeler
>> <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/08/2013 10:08 AM, Travis Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the
>>>> documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and
>>>> Ubuntu instructions.
>>>>
>>>> I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides
>>>> would reduce a lot of confusion.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not
>>>> seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that
>>>> haven't
>>>> been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
>>>
>>> I hope that this gets done. It is the biggest problem that CloudStack has
>>> in
>>> getting traction.
>>>
>>> You only get one chance to make a first impression and the impression at
>>> the
>>> moment is that the system does not work and is not ready for prime time
>>> except for organizations that have a development group ready to read the
>>> code and fix the docs for their installation.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler
>>>> <rw...@artifact-software.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and
>>>>> missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are
>>>>> leading.
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I
>>>>> hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki
>>>>> documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack
>>>>>> networking
>>>>>> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
>>>>>> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to
>>>>>> setup
>>>>>> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
>>>>>> playing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public
>>>>>> Cloud,
>>>>>> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say
>>>>>> 10.1.254.0/24)
>>>>>> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand
>>>>>> how to
>>>>>> do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and
>>>>>> Public
>>>>>> network(do they have to be separate?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
>>>>>> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be
>>>>>> easy,
>>>>>> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with
>>>>>> KVM
>>>>>> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS
>>>>>> servers(internal,
>>>>>> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when
>>>>>> I set
>>>>>> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks -
>>>>>> then how
>>>>>> do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across
>>>>>> hypervisors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really
>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
sounds great Ron,
I'm sure I am not the guy you need for this but I'll keep an eye on
it. The 'someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say' is
bound to be around on this list or dev.
regards,
Daan
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Ron Wheeler
<rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
> I have been reading and correcting the posted 4.2 documentation changes that
> I understand or where the English errors are very clear.
>
> I have filed JIRAs and some have been fixed.
>
> I would be willing to participate in a workshop to walk through the
> installation with someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On 12/08/2013 10:41 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>
>> you are right Ron, but even those companies/people can only spend
>> their time once. So please submit you improvements whenever you can.
>>
>> regards,
>> Daan
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Ron Wheeler
>> <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/08/2013 10:08 AM, Travis Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the
>>>> documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and
>>>> Ubuntu instructions.
>>>>
>>>> I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides
>>>> would reduce a lot of confusion.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not
>>>> seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that
>>>> haven't
>>>> been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
>>>
>>> I hope that this gets done. It is the biggest problem that CloudStack has
>>> in
>>> getting traction.
>>>
>>> You only get one chance to make a first impression and the impression at
>>> the
>>> moment is that the system does not work and is not ready for prime time
>>> except for organizations that have a development group ready to read the
>>> code and fix the docs for their installation.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler
>>>> <rw...@artifact-software.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and
>>>>> missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are
>>>>> leading.
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I
>>>>> hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki
>>>>> documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack
>>>>>> networking
>>>>>> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
>>>>>> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to
>>>>>> setup
>>>>>> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
>>>>>> playing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public
>>>>>> Cloud,
>>>>>> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say
>>>>>> 10.1.254.0/24)
>>>>>> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand
>>>>>> how to
>>>>>> do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and
>>>>>> Public
>>>>>> network(do they have to be separate?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
>>>>>> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be
>>>>>> easy,
>>>>>> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with
>>>>>> KVM
>>>>>> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS
>>>>>> servers(internal,
>>>>>> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when
>>>>>> I set
>>>>>> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks -
>>>>>> then how
>>>>>> do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across
>>>>>> hypervisors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really
>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
sounds great Ron,
I'm sure I am not the guy you need for this but I'll keep an eye on
it. The 'someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say' is
bound to be around on this list or dev.
regards,
Daan
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Ron Wheeler
<rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
> I have been reading and correcting the posted 4.2 documentation changes that
> I understand or where the English errors are very clear.
>
> I have filed JIRAs and some have been fixed.
>
> I would be willing to participate in a workshop to walk through the
> installation with someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On 12/08/2013 10:41 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>
>> you are right Ron, but even those companies/people can only spend
>> their time once. So please submit you improvements whenever you can.
>>
>> regards,
>> Daan
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Ron Wheeler
>> <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/08/2013 10:08 AM, Travis Graham wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the
>>>> documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and
>>>> Ubuntu instructions.
>>>>
>>>> I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides
>>>> would reduce a lot of confusion.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not
>>>> seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that
>>>> haven't
>>>> been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
>>>
>>> I hope that this gets done. It is the biggest problem that CloudStack has
>>> in
>>> getting traction.
>>>
>>> You only get one chance to make a first impression and the impression at
>>> the
>>> moment is that the system does not work and is not ready for prime time
>>> except for organizations that have a development group ready to read the
>>> code and fix the docs for their installation.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler
>>>> <rw...@artifact-software.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and
>>>>> missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are
>>>>> leading.
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I
>>>>> hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki
>>>>> documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack
>>>>>> networking
>>>>>> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
>>>>>> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to
>>>>>> setup
>>>>>> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
>>>>>> playing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public
>>>>>> Cloud,
>>>>>> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say
>>>>>> 10.1.254.0/24)
>>>>>> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand
>>>>>> how to
>>>>>> do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and
>>>>>> Public
>>>>>> network(do they have to be separate?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
>>>>>> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be
>>>>>> easy,
>>>>>> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with
>>>>>> KVM
>>>>>> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS
>>>>>> servers(internal,
>>>>>> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when
>>>>>> I set
>>>>>> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks -
>>>>>> then how
>>>>>> do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across
>>>>>> hypervisors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really
>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>.
I have been reading and correcting the posted 4.2 documentation changes
that I understand or where the English errors are very clear.
I have filed JIRAs and some have been fixed.
I would be willing to participate in a workshop to walk through the
installation with someone who actually knows what it s supposed to say.
Ron
On 12/08/2013 10:41 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
> you are right Ron, but even those companies/people can only spend
> their time once. So please submit you improvements whenever you can.
>
> regards,
> Daan
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Ron Wheeler
> <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>> On 12/08/2013 10:08 AM, Travis Graham wrote:
>>> One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the
>>> documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and
>>> Ubuntu instructions.
>>>
>>> I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides
>>> would reduce a lot of confusion.
>> Yes.
>>
>>> I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not
>>> seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that haven't
>>> been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
>> I hope that this gets done. It is the biggest problem that CloudStack has in
>> getting traction.
>>
>> You only get one chance to make a first impression and the impression at the
>> moment is that the system does not work and is not ready for prime time
>> except for organizations that have a development group ready to read the
>> code and fix the docs for their installation.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>>>>
>>>> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and
>>>> missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are
>>>> leading.
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I
>>>> hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>>>>
>>>> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki
>>>> documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking
>>>>> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
>>>>> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup
>>>>> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have to
>>>>> go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host even
>>>>> setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
>>>>> playing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud,
>>>>> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24)
>>>>> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the
>>>>> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to
>>>>> do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public
>>>>> network(do they have to be separate?)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to
>>>>> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
>>>>> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy,
>>>>> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then
>>>>> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM
>>>>> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal,
>>>>> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set
>>>>> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then how
>>>>> do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
you are right Ron, but even those companies/people can only spend
their time once. So please submit you improvements whenever you can.
regards,
Daan
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Ron Wheeler
<rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
> On 12/08/2013 10:08 AM, Travis Graham wrote:
>>
>> One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the
>> documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and
>> Ubuntu instructions.
>>
>> I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides
>> would reduce a lot of confusion.
>
> Yes.
>
>>
>> I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not
>> seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that haven't
>> been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
>
> I hope that this gets done. It is the biggest problem that CloudStack has in
> getting traction.
>
> You only get one chance to make a first impression and the impression at the
> moment is that the system does not work and is not ready for prime time
> except for organizations that have a development group ready to read the
> code and fix the docs for their installation.
>
> Ron
>
>
>> Travis
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>>>
>>> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and
>>> missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are
>>> leading.
>>>
>>> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I
>>> hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>>>
>>> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki
>>> documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking
>>>> model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without
>>>> response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup
>>>> CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have to
>>>> go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host even
>>>> setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start
>>>> playing.
>>>>
>>>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud,
>>>> essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24)
>>>> and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the
>>>> VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to
>>>> do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public
>>>> network(do they have to be separate?)
>>>>
>>>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to
>>>> move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so
>>>> technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy,
>>>> iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then
>>>> guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM
>>>> doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>>>
>>>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal,
>>>> external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set
>>>> up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then how
>>>> do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
>>>>
>>>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ron Wheeler
>>> President
>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>.
On 12/08/2013 10:08 AM, Travis Graham wrote:
> One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and Ubuntu instructions.
>
> I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides would reduce a lot of confusion.
Yes.
>
> I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that haven't been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
I hope that this gets done. It is the biggest problem that CloudStack
has in getting traction.
You only get one chance to make a first impression and the impression at
the moment is that the system does not work and is not ready for prime
time except for organizations that have a development group ready to
read the code and fix the docs for their installation.
Ron
> Travis
>
> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
>
>> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>>
>> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are leading.
>>
>> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>>
>> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have to go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host even setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start playing.
>>>
>>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud, essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24) and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public network(do they have to be separate?)
>>>
>>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy, iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>>
>>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal, external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then how do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
>>>
>>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate it.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>
>> --
>> Ron Wheeler
>> President
>> Artifact Software Inc
>> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>
>
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Travis Graham <t...@tgraham.us>.
One of the most confusing things I've ran into, past the fact the documentation is wrong about 80% of the time, is the mix of CentOS and Ubuntu instructions.
I think splitting things out into their own OS specific install guides would reduce a lot of confusion.
I was browsing the 4.2 docs in the repo this weekend and I'm still not seeing swath of the incorrect info being updated. Maybe things that haven't been rolled into the 4.2 branch yet.
Travis
On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com> wrote:
> The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
>
> It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are leading.
>
> There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I hope more clarifying text and drawings.
>
> It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have to go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host even setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start playing.
>>
>> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud, essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24) and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public network(do they have to be separate?)
>>
>> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy, iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>>
>> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal, external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then how do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
>>
>> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate it.
>>
>> Mark
>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
Re: understanding cloudstack networking
Posted by Ron Wheeler <rw...@artifact-software.com>.
The documentation is wrong which is a big problem.
It is also confusing with extraneous stuff stuck in the middle and
missing introductory information to explain where the instructions are
leading.
There seems to be a big effort to get 4.2 out with accurate docs and I
hope more clarifying text and drawings.
It appears that there is a lot of effort going into external Wiki
documentation to make up for the state of the manuals.
Ron
On 12/08/2013 4:10 AM, Mark van der Meulen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am having a little trouble understanding how the cloudstack networking model works, I have read the documentation and enquired on IRC(without response) and still don't really get it. I suspect if I was able to setup CloudStack and play with it I would understand, however given that I have to go through a complex networking setup to get the Zone/Pod/Cluster/Host even setup to start with, I haven't been able to get far enough in to start playing.
>
> Based on what I have read, I think I would like to setup a Public Cloud, essentially some hypervisors on a private network(lets say 10.1.254.0/24) and storage on another network(let's say 10.1.253.0/24) and then all the VM's given public IP's(let's say 200.10.10.0/24). I don't understand how to do that, or even what the difference is between a Guest network and Public network(do they have to be separate?)
>
> I'm used to just building VM's in vSphere and the reason I would like to move to CloudStack is for the automation and ability to give not so technical people access to creating VM's. On vSphere this would be easy, iSCSI and Management on the same 10G NIC with different VLAN tags, and then guest network on another NIC. Replicating this into Cloudstack with KVM doesn't seem possible? Can I use VLAN tagging?
>
> Other questions I have are around the multitude of DNS servers(internal, external, etc) that the CloudStack Management server asks me for when I set up the Pod/Cluster/Host as well as internal and external networks - then how do I assign and make sure all configuration is okay across hypervisors?
>
> If someone could point me towards a good guide I would really appreciate it.
>
> Mark
--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102