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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> on 2006/05/26 14:11:35 UTC
[VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
perform the release.
Release notes:
http://incubator.apache.org/activemq/activemq-40-release.html
Vote thread:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-activemq-dev/200605.mbox/%3cec6e67fd0605161031n5b9c626fq69b61e0641cacb00@mail.gmail.com%3e
Vote result:
The VOTE has passed with 10 committer +1's and 1 non-committer +1 and no -1s.
+1 James Strachan
+1 Hiram Chirino
+1 Rob Davies
+1 Guillaume Nodet
+1 Jonas Lim
+1 Bruce Snyder
+1 John Sisson
+1 Dain Sundstrom
+1 Fritz Oconer
+1 Adrian Co
+1 Alan D. Cabrera
Release tarball:
http://people.apache.org/~chirino/incubator-activemq-4.0/maven1/incubator-activemq/distributions/
Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
Here's my +1
--
James
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Brian McCallister <br...@apache.org>.
+1
-Brian
On May 26, 2006, at 5:11 AM, James Strachan wrote:
> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
>
> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> perform the release.
>
> Release notes:
> http://incubator.apache.org/activemq/activemq-40-release.html
>
> Vote thread:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-activemq-dev/
> 200605.mbox/%
> 3cec6e67fd0605161031n5b9c626fq69b61e0641cacb00@mail.gmail.com%3e
>
> Vote result:
> The VOTE has passed with 10 committer +1's and 1 non-committer +1
> and no -1s.
>
> +1 James Strachan
> +1 Hiram Chirino
> +1 Rob Davies
> +1 Guillaume Nodet
> +1 Jonas Lim
> +1 Bruce Snyder
> +1 John Sisson
> +1 Dain Sundstrom
> +1 Fritz Oconer
> +1 Adrian Co
> +1 Alan D. Cabrera
>
> Release tarball:
> http://people.apache.org/~chirino/incubator-activemq-4.0/maven1/
> incubator-activemq/distributions/
>
> Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>
> Here's my +1
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
James Strachan wrote:
> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
>
> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> perform the release.
+1
Bill
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
+1
On Jun 1, 2006, at 12:54 PM, James Strachan wrote:
> Hi Jim
>
> On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>> README.txt and userGuide.html (at least) should be updated to
>> reflect Apache ActiveMQ, not just 'ActiveMQ'
>>
>> Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
>>
>> Will vote +1 after the above are addressed.
>
> I think we've addressed your concerns in the latest distro - I wonder
> could you check everything is OK?
>
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jim
On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> README.txt and userGuide.html (at least) should be updated to
> reflect Apache ActiveMQ, not just 'ActiveMQ'
>
> Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
>
> Will vote +1 after the above are addressed.
I think we've addressed your concerns in the latest distro - I wonder
could you check everything is OK?
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James
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
The binary has now been rebuilt to address those issues. I'm guessing
we need to restart a vote on activemq dev list just to be formal, but
I'm sure it will pass just like the previous vote did.
On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> README.txt and userGuide.html (at least) should be updated to
> reflect Apache ActiveMQ, not just 'ActiveMQ'
>
> Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
>
> Will vote +1 after the above are addressed.
>
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>
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Regards,
Hiram
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Martin Sebor <se...@roguewave.com>.
Bruce Snyder wrote:
> On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
>> README.txt and userGuide.html (at least) should be updated to
>> reflect Apache ActiveMQ, not just 'ActiveMQ'
>>
>> Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
>
>
> I've found some information on the STATUS file but I think I'm missing
> something because I can find info about the HTML status file, but
> nothing on the STATUS file checked into the Subversion repo. I'm
> trying to understand the redundancy and your query about
> appropriateness. Below is what I have found:
FWIW, you might find helpful the issues below and the threads they
reference: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-5, and
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-7.
My understanding is that only one "STATUS file" is required and
that's your project's status web page; the term "STATUS file" is
a holdover from the early days of the incubator when a file with
that name did in fact exist and was required.
Martin
>
> • The Incubator Process Description page states that with an upcoming
> assessment it is generally a good idea to have your STATUS file right
> up to-date
> (http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html#Review).
>
> • The Incubation Policy page states that every project has an
> incubation status file under
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/projectname.html
> (http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources).
>
>
> Could you point out the docs on the difference between the two and the
> appropriateness of the STATUS file?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>.
On 5/27/06, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> README.txt and userGuide.html (at least) should be updated to
> reflect Apache ActiveMQ, not just 'ActiveMQ'
>
> Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
I've found some information on the STATUS file but I think I'm missing
something because I can find info about the HTML status file, but
nothing on the STATUS file checked into the Subversion repo. I'm
trying to understand the redundancy and your query about
appropriateness. Below is what I have found:
• The Incubator Process Description page states that with an upcoming
assessment it is generally a good idea to have your STATUS file right
up to-date (http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html#Review).
• The Incubation Policy page states that every project has an
incubation status file under
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/projectname.html
(http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Use+of+Apache+Resources).
Could you point out the docs on the difference between the two and the
appropriateness of the STATUS file?
Thanks!
Bruce
--
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);'
Apache Geronimo - http://geronimo.apache.org/
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
README.txt and userGuide.html (at least) should be updated to
reflect Apache ActiveMQ, not just 'ActiveMQ'
Is STATUS appropriate to be bundled in the release?
Will vote +1 after the above are addressed.
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 5/27/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 13:11 +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> > In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> > ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
> >
> > We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> > perform the release.
> >
> > Release notes:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/activemq/activemq-40-release.html
>
> It seems to me the docs need to be updated to say "Apache ActiveMQ"
> instead of just "ActiveMQ".
Done.
--
James
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 13:11 +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
>
> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> perform the release.
>
> Release notes:
> http://incubator.apache.org/activemq/activemq-40-release.html
It seems to me the docs need to be updated to say "Apache ActiveMQ"
instead of just "ActiveMQ".
Sanjiva.
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Re: Release votes
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/4/06, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:17:46AM -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Leo Simons wrote:
> > > Let's write a piece of software to do the auditing for us.
> >
> > How do you propose to do this? How do you propose to audit the code and
> > know which pieces of code require which license and whether or not that
> > license is conforming, and properly documented? Not saying that this
> can't
> > be done, but am asking how you propose to do it.
>
> Hadn't thought about it a whole lot yet. I figured the question was coming
> so
> I typed up some random things on the train...not sure whether it makes
> sense
> but I'm confident it can be done.
+1
IMO we're going to need something like this for all releases pretty soon. we
need to have a way to enforce minimum policies (just simple stuff like
checksums, signatures, LICENSE and NOTICE files). one way would be using a
subversion repository for releases and running a pre-commit quality script.
it's not a replacement for the human element. we're still going to need to
trust pmc's to do the right thing. but it might reduce the energy required
to get a release to a state where it's fit to release.
- robert
Re: Release votes
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 10:17:46AM -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Leo Simons wrote:
> > Let's write a piece of software to do the auditing for us.
>
> How do you propose to do this? How do you propose to audit the code and
> know which pieces of code require which license and whether or not that
> license is conforming, and properly documented? Not saying that this can't
> be done, but am asking how you propose to do it.
Hadn't thought about it a whole lot yet. I figured the question was coming so
I typed up some random things on the train...not sure whether it makes sense
but I'm confident it can be done.
cheers!
LSD
----
The Magnificient Release Licensing Assistant
----
--> takes a tarball
--> check tarball name
--> has "incubating" in there
--> checks there is a LICENSE.txt containing at least all of the
apache license, v2.0
--> checks there is a NOTICE.txt containing at least all of the
policy-required ASF copyright statements
--> look for any file which is easily identified as "potentially
third party" (for java projects, this typically means .jars.
For other projects, who knows...)
--> for each such file
--> compare (eg the SHA1 or MD5) with a database of
'known' ASF artifacts (eg based on our maven repo
metadata)
--> if match
--> if "SNAPSHOT", issue warning
--> if "incubating", issue warning
--> if no match
--> compare the name of the file
--> if match, issue error
--> if no match
--> compare with a database of known
'external' artifacts
--> similar policies
--> for known non-apache license
and/or copyright, inspect
LICENSE.txt/NOTICE.txt/legal
subdir (as per 3rd party
policy)
--> if still no match
--> issue warning, request addition
of metadata
--> tool for adding metadata in
some way (webapp? Integrates
with maven repo manager?)
--> check availability of PGP file
--> check validity
--> check availability of SHA1 file
--> check validity
--> etc etc
Frequently Imagined Answers
---
Is this hard to implement?
No!
--> some forloops
--> some switch/case/if/then/else
--> some regular expressions
--> some clever use of 'diff'
--> some file i/o
--> availability of maven POM metadata (perhaps with an
extension or two) is *key*
Why no 'template' tool instead?
--> no idea! Lets do that too!
Why not as a maven subproject?
--> no idea! Lets see if that makes sense!
Why write it using maven?
--> it somehow seems sensible. It looks like our non-java projects tend to
get this right anyhow, and most of our java projects use maven for their
builds and stuff anyway.
But I want to do it using technology X!
--> Cool! Please do. Way to go! Less work for me!
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Re: Release votes
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
>
> Cliff has been doing so. Frankly, I suspect that many ASF projects need to
> clean up their releases to conform with the currently solidifying ASF-wide
> guidelines, but the Incubator PMC is more aware of them, and more diligent
> in applying them.
>
>From the perspective of being involved in one of the podlings that has
attempted several release attempts, I can confirm your statement
above. When I was trying to get our releases out, I would try to
compare our release distribution to other ASF released project and see
what common across those projects assuming that the common bits would
the stuff that is required. What I found out is that asf policy is
not uniformly applied across all the java based projects. I think
that the latest distributions coming out of the incubator should
actually be what new projects should try to model. And I think this
is largely bases on the fact that there are SOOO many different eyes
from different communities involved in the incubation process. I
think that it's something that you kinda of loose once your graduated.
So in short, I think the incubator is doing a great job, and perhaps
the other graduated projects could benifit from release reviews from
the incubator folks.
> A checklist, with illustrating examples, added to a release document would
> probably be helpful to ensuring that when a release comes up for vote, there
> are fewer -1s cast.
>
agreed!
> --- Noel
>
>
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>
--
Regards,
Hiram
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Re: Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/2/06, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
>
> (this is a rant and the beginnings of a proposal which has nothing to do
> in particular with James, ActiveMQ, or its release)
<snip>
There must be. All these little rules and policies and practices (written
> or unwritten) seem like they could be somehow codified. Lets do so.
codification is on my ApacheCon TODO list
Let's write a piece of software to do the auditing for us. Let's write it
> in java as a commandline tool spitting out a choice of text-based or
> XML-based reports. Let's wrap the tool in an ant task, and in a maven2
> plugin. People and projects can start using the tool without us changing
> any of the process, and once it works well enough these kinds of
> "permission
> emails" will all become the pure formalities they should be ("please
> approve
> that you trust that I used the tool correctly and that the tool can also
> be
> trusted, btw here is the output"), and we can even start thinking about
> changing this @#$^&% process!
>
> Questions:
>
> * anyone think it can't work? Anyone think its a good idea?
IMO there are two distinct and separate issues here:
1 the major issue we have with release distribution oversight not scaling as
the ASF scales. it's not just podlings that we need to worry about - it's
every project. i agree that this needs an automated solution. i've been
wondering about using SVN as a staging ground and with clever pre and post
commit scripts. probably need to move this to infrastructure or wait till
ApacheCon...
2 the social aspect (pmc ping) - i think that jim's covered this reasonably
well.
> * where's the sandbox where we can work on this thing together?
> (I'm quite willing to mentor a new incubation podling :-))
> * who is willing to spend a day of their ApacheCon EU hackathon working
> on
> this?
i'll be around and planned to work on incubator related codification and
documentation.
- robert
Re: Project templates
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/13/06, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 6/13/06, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 06:02:42PM -0700, Jeremy Boynes wrote:
> > > robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > > >> > On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > >I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for
> > ApacheCon
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It probably makes far more sense to make that Maven 2.x.
> > > >
> > > > both would be best
> > > >
> > > > a lot of projects are still maven 1. what would be great is a maven
> > 2 ready
> > > > maven 1 build as well as a maven 2 build.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Paul's focus may be M1 as I think Synapse/Axis are using it.
> > >
> > > Tuscany is using M2 so if Paul wants to work on M1 I'm willing to come
> > > up with a similar template for M2 (I would propose as an archetype
> > mojo).
> > >
> > > Would this be an appropriate thing to check into incubator SVN
> >
> > I would say so.
>
>
> +1
>
> >, and if
> > > so where? incubator/public/trunk/template/maven[12] ?
> >
> > Sure!
>
>
> +1
>
i'm going to start working on some templates under the given URL.
i've taken a look at the synapse build and we'll probably need to include
templates for both multi- and single-project builds for maven.
hopefully people will jump in with improvements...
- robert
Re: Project templates
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/13/06, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 06:02:42PM -0700, Jeremy Boynes wrote:
> > robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > >> > On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for
> ApacheCon
> > >> >
> > >> > It probably makes far more sense to make that Maven 2.x.
> > >
> > > both would be best
> > >
> > > a lot of projects are still maven 1. what would be great is a maven 2
> ready
> > > maven 1 build as well as a maven 2 build.
> > >
> >
> > Paul's focus may be M1 as I think Synapse/Axis are using it.
> >
> > Tuscany is using M2 so if Paul wants to work on M1 I'm willing to come
> > up with a similar template for M2 (I would propose as an archetype
> mojo).
> >
> > Would this be an appropriate thing to check into incubator SVN
>
> I would say so.
+1
>, and if
> > so where? incubator/public/trunk/template/maven[12] ?
>
> Sure!
+1
i've committed an extremely rough draft for a learn release management
document here: http://incubator.apache.org/learn/releasemanagement.html.
(it's more of a skeleton really.)
it's rough for a reason - IMO it'd work much better developed from the
experiences of those who've been through the incubator (as opposed to
someone sitting down for a few days and writing up something polished).
please dive in and patch - you can't make it any worse ;-)
i've tried to come up with a rough structure that should allow folks to
create bit sized patches rather than lengthy prose. we can tie it up later
once the content's there.
ATM the content is mostly java since that's what i know best but hopefully
that'll change.
- robert
Re: Project templates
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Mon, Jun 12, 2006 at 06:02:42PM -0700, Jeremy Boynes wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> >> > On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for ApacheCon
> >> >
> >> > It probably makes far more sense to make that Maven 2.x.
> >
> > both would be best
> >
> > a lot of projects are still maven 1. what would be great is a maven 2 ready
> > maven 1 build as well as a maven 2 build.
> >
>
> Paul's focus may be M1 as I think Synapse/Axis are using it.
>
> Tuscany is using M2 so if Paul wants to work on M1 I'm willing to come
> up with a similar template for M2 (I would propose as an archetype mojo).
>
> Would this be an appropriate thing to check into incubator SVN
I would say so.
>, and if
> so where? incubator/public/trunk/template/maven[12] ?
Sure!
LSD
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Re: Project templates
Posted by Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> > On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for ApacheCon
>> >
>> > It probably makes far more sense to make that Maven 2.x.
>
> both would be best
>
> a lot of projects are still maven 1. what would be great is a maven 2 ready
> maven 1 build as well as a maven 2 build.
>
Paul's focus may be M1 as I think Synapse/Axis are using it.
Tuscany is using M2 so if Paul wants to work on M1 I'm willing to come
up with a similar template for M2 (I would propose as an archetype mojo).
Would this be an appropriate thing to check into incubator SVN, and if
so where? incubator/public/trunk/template/maven[12] ?
--
Jeremy
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Re: Project templates
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/9/06, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 08, 2006 at 09:15:25AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> > On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for ApacheCon
> >
> > It probably makes far more sense to make that Maven 2.x.
both would be best
a lot of projects are still maven 1. what would be great is a maven 2 ready
maven 1 build as well as a maven 2 build.
- robert
Re: Project templates
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Thu, Jun 08, 2006 at 09:15:25AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for ApacheCon
>
> It probably makes far more sense to make that Maven 2.x. -- justin
*cheer*! Go, Paul, go!
:-)
LSD, who loves it when a plan comes together...
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Re: Project templates
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for ApacheCon
It probably makes far more sense to make that Maven 2.x. -- justin
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Re: Project templates
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/7/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for ApacheCon
> based on what we've put together for Synapse. If I can persuade the
> Synapse team to help me it might happen.
even if it's not complete, a starting point would be useful
I don't believe that we should view these templates as normative but
> rather as a useful aid and also that they should be considered Work In
> Progress and that Incubator projects be encouraged to see them as
> something that can be improved.
+1
But I fully agree that unless we have a few of these it won't seem that way.
anyone else care to volunteer to come up with something? don't worry if it's
not perfect, i'm sure we can whip it into shape but it's much harder to
start from a blank canvas...
i'll be working on documentation@hackathon so if anyone has any
documentation ideas or requests, feel free to grab me. there's a good change
that we'll be holding a docathon as well.
- robert
Re: Project templates
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
I will try to get a template based on Maven 1.x ready for ApacheCon
based on what we've put together for Synapse. If I can persuade the
Synapse team to help me it might happen.
I don't believe that we should view these templates as normative but
rather as a useful aid and also that they should be considered Work In
Progress and that Incubator projects be encouraged to see them as
something that can be improved.
But I fully agree that unless we have a few of these it won't seem that way.
Paul
On 6/7/06, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/3/06, Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Paul Fremantle wrote:
> >
> > >> I have no argument with someone providing such a template, but I would
> > >> strongly object to any implication that Maven was mandated. We are not
> > >> going to endorse Maven as the official build tool for ASF Java
> > projects.
> > >
> > >
> > >> Sure, and an Ant project shell can do all of that, too, probably
> > sharing
> > >> most of the same artifacts as the Maven project shell.
> > >
> > >
> > > +1. I agree that both Ant and Maven, and if someone was willing to
> > > contribute, maybe a Makefile too :-)
> >
> > I too think that whatever template should be compatible with Makefile too.
>
>
> one of the general issues which i find keeps cropping up when trying to
> document is that the ASF tries to keep any rules minimal (to reduce
> friction). but there's a big gulf between the minimal requirements and good
> practice.
>
> projects need to have freedom to do it their way but quite a lot of
> reasonably good practice has been assembled by painful experience over the
> years and in many areas podlings would be well advised to consider adopting
> these practices.
>
> guidelines need to be descriptive rather than prescriptive or normative.
>
> IMHO templates need to describe reasonable approaches using maven, ant,
> make, nant or whatever rather than endorsing or recommending any particular
> approach.
>
> anyone feel like contributing a template or two?
>
> - robert
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: Project templates
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/3/06, Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>
> >> I have no argument with someone providing such a template, but I would
> >> strongly object to any implication that Maven was mandated. We are not
> >> going to endorse Maven as the official build tool for ASF Java
> projects.
> >
> >
> >> Sure, and an Ant project shell can do all of that, too, probably
> sharing
> >> most of the same artifacts as the Maven project shell.
> >
> >
> > +1. I agree that both Ant and Maven, and if someone was willing to
> > contribute, maybe a Makefile too :-)
>
> I too think that whatever template should be compatible with Makefile too.
one of the general issues which i find keeps cropping up when trying to
document is that the ASF tries to keep any rules minimal (to reduce
friction). but there's a big gulf between the minimal requirements and good
practice.
projects need to have freedom to do it their way but quite a lot of
reasonably good practice has been assembled by painful experience over the
years and in many areas podlings would be well advised to consider adopting
these practices.
guidelines need to be descriptive rather than prescriptive or normative.
IMHO templates need to describe reasonable approaches using maven, ant,
make, nant or whatever rather than endorsing or recommending any particular
approach.
anyone feel like contributing a template or two?
- robert
Re: Project templates
Posted by Samisa Abeysinghe <sa...@gmail.com>.
Paul Fremantle wrote:
>> I have no argument with someone providing such a template, but I would
>> strongly object to any implication that Maven was mandated. We are not
>> going to endorse Maven as the official build tool for ASF Java projects.
>
>
>> Sure, and an Ant project shell can do all of that, too, probably sharing
>> most of the same artifacts as the Maven project shell.
>
>
> +1. I agree that both Ant and Maven, and if someone was willing to
> contribute, maybe a Makefile too :-)
I too think that whatever template should be compatible with Makefile too.
Samisa...
>
> Paul
>
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Re: Project templates
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
> I have no argument with someone providing such a template, but I would
> strongly object to any implication that Maven was mandated. We are not
> going to endorse Maven as the official build tool for ASF Java projects.
> Sure, and an Ant project shell can do all of that, too, probably sharing
> most of the same artifacts as the Maven project shell.
+1. I agree that both Ant and Maven, and if someone was willing to
contribute, maybe a Makefile too :-)
Paul
--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Project templates
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Paul Fremantle wrote:
> What would be even more helpful would be a default Apache project
> setup, with a maven release target that builds a release in the
> right format.
I have no argument with someone providing such a template, but I would
strongly object to any implication that Maven was mandated. We are not
going to endorse Maven as the official build tool for ASF Java projects.
> If the project structure started out with LICENSE, NOTICE, JAR targets
> that put those in META-INF, places to put auxiliary licenses, etc, and
> produced signatures, MD5s, etc from day 1, then podlings would be off
> to a great start.
Sure, and an Ant project shell can do all of that, too, probably sharing
most of the same artifacts as the Maven project shell.
--- Noel
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Re: Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 6/3/06, Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 6/2/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I like the idea of automation.
> >
> > What would be even more helpful would be a default Apache project
> > setup, with a maven release target that builds a release in the right
> > format.
> >
> > If the project structure started out with LICENSE, NOTICE, JAR targets
> > that put those in META-INF, places to put auxiliary licenses, etc, and
> > produced signatures, MD5s, etc from day 1, then podlings would be off
> > to a great start.
incubator release codification has been my TODO list for quite a while now.
still working on the release signing documentation ATM but there seems to be
quite a bit of momentum on this now.
a project structure would be a good start for this documentation.
one of the issue i find difficult is balancing autonomy with good practice.
the actual policy requirements are actually pretty small. however, there are
quite a lot of additional material which falls under best practice which is
(by nature) a little subjective. i think that a list of best practice and a
base structure would be useful as a menu from which podlings could bootstrap
their own standards.
> Also seems like a easier first step than validation.
> >
>
> I proposed a patch for m2 that would allow LICENSE and NOTICE files to
> automatically be included in the jar files (MJAR-42) - I've not had
> any feedback on it yet.
>
> The structure thing sounds like an Apache-specific archetype mojo -
> how about we start a small project here to kick it off (potentially
> moving it to m2 later)?
we've talked about this before over in jakartaland. a tool would be most
useful if it encorporated elements of best practice (for example, good
MANIFESTS) as well as the minimal requires for an ASF release. probably best
to pool resources.
- robert
Re: Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Posted by Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org>.
On 6/2/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like the idea of automation.
>
> What would be even more helpful would be a default Apache project
> setup, with a maven release target that builds a release in the right
> format.
>
> If the project structure started out with LICENSE, NOTICE, JAR targets
> that put those in META-INF, places to put auxiliary licenses, etc, and
> produced signatures, MD5s, etc from day 1, then podlings would be off
> to a great start.
>
> Also seems like a easier first step than validation.
>
I proposed a patch for m2 that would allow LICENSE and NOTICE files to
automatically be included in the jar files (MJAR-42) - I've not had
any feedback on it yet.
The structure thing sounds like an Apache-specific archetype mojo -
how about we start a small project here to kick it off (potentially
moving it to m2 later)?
--
Jeremy
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Re: Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
Agreed. Any tools that help incubating projects get off to the right
start we be a good start. Even if it's just a check list that has all
the things that have been found to be missing before in previous
attempted releases would be a great idea.
On 6/2/06, Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like the idea of automation.
>
> What would be even more helpful would be a default Apache project
> setup, with a maven release target that builds a release in the right
> format.
>
> If the project structure started out with LICENSE, NOTICE, JAR targets
> that put those in META-INF, places to put auxiliary licenses, etc, and
> produced signatures, MD5s, etc from day 1, then podlings would be off
> to a great start.
>
> Also seems like a easier first step than validation.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> On 6/2/06, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Jun 2, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
> >
> > > (this is a rant and the beginnings of a proposal which has nothing
> > > to do
> > > in particular with James, ActiveMQ, or its release)
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 01:11:35PM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> > >> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> > >> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
> > >>
> > >> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> > >> perform the release.
> > >
> > > Everytime I read something like this I get terribly annoyed. People
> > > are
> > > doing stuff, trying to comply with all kinds of policies, and then
> > > instead
> > > of self-governing they have to go ask permission. Its wrong.
> > > Permission is
> > > something kids ask their parents for. When you need to ask for it,
> > > you're
> > > not self-governing. If we're to have self-governing communities we
> > > need to
> > > have them be like that while incubating. Self-governance is grown, not
> > > "bolted on" after graduation.
> > >
> >
> > Think of the Incubator as sort of a permanent "member" of the PPMC.
> >
> > In any case, it's the release and distribution of s/w which
> > is the most legally significant (well... *one* of them)
> > thing the ASF does. As such, s/w release must have
> > adequate oversight... Since Incubated projects ride that
> > fence of being ASF projects but "not completely" it really
> > requires that the Incubator PMC agree to such releases.
> >
> > No expects that upon graduation, somehow the project
> > is instantly granted the ability for self-governance.
> > Instead, when they reach that stage where they are
> > actively able to self-govern, and are really doing
> > it, then they are ready to graduate.
> >
> > Think of them as baby birds in a nest: we don't kick them out
> > and then expect them to fly. They leave the nest *when*
> > they learn to fly :)
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Regards,
Hiram
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Re: Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
I like the idea of automation.
What would be even more helpful would be a default Apache project
setup, with a maven release target that builds a release in the right
format.
If the project structure started out with LICENSE, NOTICE, JAR targets
that put those in META-INF, places to put auxiliary licenses, etc, and
produced signatures, MD5s, etc from day 1, then podlings would be off
to a great start.
Also seems like a easier first step than validation.
Paul
On 6/2/06, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
> On Jun 2, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
>
> > (this is a rant and the beginnings of a proposal which has nothing
> > to do
> > in particular with James, ActiveMQ, or its release)
> >
> > On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 01:11:35PM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> >> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> >> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
> >>
> >> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> >> perform the release.
> >
> > Everytime I read something like this I get terribly annoyed. People
> > are
> > doing stuff, trying to comply with all kinds of policies, and then
> > instead
> > of self-governing they have to go ask permission. Its wrong.
> > Permission is
> > something kids ask their parents for. When you need to ask for it,
> > you're
> > not self-governing. If we're to have self-governing communities we
> > need to
> > have them be like that while incubating. Self-governance is grown, not
> > "bolted on" after graduation.
> >
>
> Think of the Incubator as sort of a permanent "member" of the PPMC.
>
> In any case, it's the release and distribution of s/w which
> is the most legally significant (well... *one* of them)
> thing the ASF does. As such, s/w release must have
> adequate oversight... Since Incubated projects ride that
> fence of being ASF projects but "not completely" it really
> requires that the Incubator PMC agree to such releases.
>
> No expects that upon graduation, somehow the project
> is instantly granted the ability for self-governance.
> Instead, when they reach that stage where they are
> actively able to self-govern, and are really doing
> it, then they are ready to graduate.
>
> Think of them as baby birds in a nest: we don't kick them out
> and then expect them to fly. They leave the nest *when*
> they learn to fly :)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Jun 2, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
> (this is a rant and the beginnings of a proposal which has nothing
> to do
> in particular with James, ActiveMQ, or its release)
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 01:11:35PM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
>> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
>> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
>>
>> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
>> perform the release.
>
> Everytime I read something like this I get terribly annoyed. People
> are
> doing stuff, trying to comply with all kinds of policies, and then
> instead
> of self-governing they have to go ask permission. Its wrong.
> Permission is
> something kids ask their parents for. When you need to ask for it,
> you're
> not self-governing. If we're to have self-governing communities we
> need to
> have them be like that while incubating. Self-governance is grown, not
> "bolted on" after graduation.
>
Think of the Incubator as sort of a permanent "member" of the PPMC.
In any case, it's the release and distribution of s/w which
is the most legally significant (well... *one* of them)
thing the ASF does. As such, s/w release must have
adequate oversight... Since Incubated projects ride that
fence of being ASF projects but "not completely" it really
requires that the Incubator PMC agree to such releases.
No expects that upon graduation, somehow the project
is instantly granted the ability for self-governance.
Instead, when they reach that stage where they are
actively able to self-govern, and are really doing
it, then they are ready to graduate.
Think of them as baby birds in a nest: we don't kick them out
and then expect them to fly. They leave the nest *when*
they learn to fly :)
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RE: Release votes
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Leo Simons wrote:
> People are doing stuff, trying to comply with all kinds of policies,
> and then instead of self-governing they have to go ask permission.
> When you need to ask for it, you're not self-governing.
Self-governance is a learned behavior, and one of the things that the
Incubator is supposed to help them learn, but it does have to be learned,
and that takes practice and repetition.
> If we're to have self-governing communities we need to have them be
> like that while incubating. Self-governance is grown, not "bolted on"
> after graduation.
Hence the recommendation to have at least 3 Mentors per project, so that the
PPMC can be more self-governing, and have necessary guidance. However, as
we have seen, it is still important to have the rest of the Incubator PMC
involved in key decisions.
> seemingly a significant amount of the time, there actually is
> something that has to change before the incubator PMC will
> actually "give permission".
Releases, in specific, have been problemmatic --- as I believe you recognize
by your use of the adjective on the message subject --- but people *are*
learning what is required.
> All these little rules and policies and practices (written or
> unwritten) seem like they could be somehow codified.
Cliff has been doing so. Frankly, I suspect that many ASF projects need to
clean up their releases to conform with the currently solidifying ASF-wide
guidelines, but the Incubator PMC is more aware of them, and more diligent
in applying them.
A checklist, with illustrating examples, added to a release document would
probably be helpful to ensuring that when a release comes up for vote, there
are fewer -1s cast.
> Let's write a piece of software to do the auditing for us.
How do you propose to do this? How do you propose to audit the code and
know which pieces of code require which license and whether or not that
license is conforming, and properly documented? Not saying that this can't
be done, but am asking how you propose to do it.
--- Noel
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Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
(this is a rant and the beginnings of a proposal which has nothing to do
in particular with James, ActiveMQ, or its release)
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 01:11:35PM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
>
> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> perform the release.
Everytime I read something like this I get terribly annoyed. People are
doing stuff, trying to comply with all kinds of policies, and then instead
of self-governing they have to go ask permission. Its wrong. Permission is
something kids ask their parents for. When you need to ask for it, you're
not self-governing. If we're to have self-governing communities we need to
have them be like that while incubating. Self-governance is grown, not
"bolted on" after graduation.
What is also entirely stupid is that seemingly a significant amount of the
time, there actually is something that has to change before the incubator
PMC will actually "give permission". This is probably why we got started
down the road in the first place, eg it might be somehow the "cause" for
what IMHO is a bad policy.
Ok, how do I turn my annoyance into an itch to scratch? Is there some way
to actually alleviate the real problems?
There must be. All these little rules and policies and practices (written
or unwritten) seem like they could be somehow codified. Lets do so.
Let's write a piece of software to do the auditing for us. Let's write it
in java as a commandline tool spitting out a choice of text-based or
XML-based reports. Let's wrap the tool in an ant task, and in a maven2
plugin. People and projects can start using the tool without us changing
any of the process, and once it works well enough these kinds of "permission
emails" will all become the pure formalities they should be ("please approve
that you trust that I used the tool correctly and that the tool can also be
trusted, btw here is the output"), and we can even start thinking about
changing this @#$^&% process!
Questions:
* anyone think it can't work? Anyone think its a good idea?
* where's the sandbox where we can work on this thing together?
(I'm quite willing to mentor a new incubation podling :-))
* who is willing to spend a day of their ApacheCon EU hackathon working on
this?
LSD
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Re: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Here's my +1 (binding)
-- dims
On 5/26/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
>
> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
> perform the release.
>
> Release notes:
> http://incubator.apache.org/activemq/activemq-40-release.html
>
> Vote thread:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-activemq-dev/200605.mbox/%3cec6e67fd0605161031n5b9c626fq69b61e0641cacb00@mail.gmail.com%3e
>
> Vote result:
> The VOTE has passed with 10 committer +1's and 1 non-committer +1 and no -1s.
>
> +1 James Strachan
> +1 Hiram Chirino
> +1 Rob Davies
> +1 Guillaume Nodet
> +1 Jonas Lim
> +1 Bruce Snyder
> +1 John Sisson
> +1 Dain Sundstrom
> +1 Fritz Oconer
> +1 Adrian Co
> +1 Alan D. Cabrera
>
> Release tarball:
> http://people.apache.org/~chirino/incubator-activemq-4.0/maven1/incubator-activemq/distributions/
>
> Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>
> Here's my +1
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
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--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
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