Why will James use Avalon if its dead?

[Juan Carlos Murillo <mu...@inet.co.cr>]

We are evaluating James for use in a large enterprise app so that it may
supply mailing services to it.

Some developer have raised the issue that James is based on End Of Line
frameworks such as Avalon.

Furthermore, the website for James says they will continue using it by
forking it or something.

The natural question to ask would be:

Why do you want to fork and continue development on a framework that is
dead and buried by the Apache Foundation and its own creators?

We naturally have considered the fact that switching this on the
implementation might be very complicated, but some reasons other than it
being hard for keeping Avalon around would be great.

Disclaimer:  This is a honest attempt to get information, not a jab at
anyone.

Thanks in advance for your help.
-- 
Juan Carlos Murillo <mu...@inet.co.cr>


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RE: Why will James use Avalon if its dead?

[Juan Carlos Murillo <mu...@inet.co.cr>]

Thank you both Noel and Serge for your replies.

I glean from your replies that:

1- Nothing is wrong with Avalon, the code base.
2- Avalon was closed because of social issues in the developer
community.
3- James' Avalon dependencies might be eliminated in the future

If the above is accurate then I don't see anything wrong with using
James running on Avalon.  We will download the code and do a review of
that.

As a suggestion, it would be very helpful to be able to get this insight
from the website.

The initial impression we got was that Avalon was so poorly designed or
executed that it was closed due to embarrassment or total frustration of
the participating developers.  Keep in mind that outsiders do not know
about the internal history of the project and the above hypothesis is
the one that first comes to mind.  An of course, this reflected even
worse on James for hanging on to something even its fathers shun.  I am
glad that this was not the case.

Thanks for all the help.

Juan Murillo


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Send and Receive issues of James 2.2

[Yongqin Xu <yo...@yahoo.com>]

I just started using James 2.2 as a local mail server
for some testing purpose in Win XP SP2 with JDK 1.5.03

So far, I have 2 issues:
1. Every time after starting the server, I run my test
java program that send a mail, then receive the mail.
The very first message never get read out from receive
call. then run my test program again, this time, it
got 2 mail together. After these 2 initial "warm up"
runs, all subsequent tests are normal, which send one
and get one back. Sounds wierd?  My config.xml is
quite basic, only changes is DNS IP.

2. I setup James 2.2 at my linux box with hostname and
static IP. I configured the DNS ip as well. I tried to
use my java test program send a mail to my yahoo.com
account from inside my working company. With "debug"
on, I can see there is no internal error and email
address is valid as well. But I never get mail in my
yahoo.com.
I guess either my config was not right, or security
constraints, or something like.

My above java test program is based on Java Mail API
1.3
from Sun's impl.

Are these issues faily common to you guys?

thanks

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RE: Why will James use Avalon if its dead?

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> Why do you want to fork and continue development on a framework that is
> dead and buried by the Apache Foundation and its own creators?

The ASF didn't bury the framework, we close the community.  The Avalon
community had degenerated into an unfortunate state of perpetual strife and
unwillingness to collaborate, and therefore, after years of trying to fix
it, was closed.  Most of the active developers had already left to form
other, related, groups that didn't have the social problems.  One such, for
example, is Apache Excalibur.  Most of Avalon's components moved to the
Excalibur project.  Other parts are available in Loom or elsewhere.

*IF* we need to make changes to the existing Avalon code, we CAN.  At the
moment, we don't.  Over time, we will most likely move off of Avalon, but
there is no urgency or need to rush.  The current platform is stable,
functional, and tested.

That stability, in fact, one of the sticking points within the Avalon
community.  Many users wanted the Avalon platform to remain stable, with
just bug fixes and incremental, compatible, improvement.  Others wanted
radical API changes that would break existing code, but enable their vision
of new functionality.  Avalon was closed in large part due to the inability
of the community to resolve those two viewpoints.  It wasn't closed due to
the code.

	--- Noel


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