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Posted to general@gump.apache.org by Antoine Lévy-Lambert <an...@antbuild.com> on 2004/02/27 21:31:58 UTC
Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>On Friday 27 February 2004 13:51, Gump Integration Build wrote:
>
>
>>To whom it may engage...
>>
>>
>
>Leo, Having looked at Gump a couple of times, I am still confused over how it
>works and basically have no clue.
>
>
>
I am also starting to look at Gump, and do not understand everything yet
either. ;-)
>1. Why doesn't it pick up Maven project descriptors instead, since to me it
>seems that most is available in that? Does it have to use Ant?
>
>
>
Adam Jack and/or Stefan Bodewig will answer this one better than me. O:-)
>2. Can you give some pointer which explains the rationale instead of the
>details, and "how to go about" getting it to work?
>
>For instance, in the nag email that is coming, there are references to
>non-existent directories. Is that a declaration in Avalon Gump descriptors or
>is part of something else?
>
>
>
The aim of gump is to check that a number of projects can build against
the head revision of each other,
in order to avoid a "jar hell" situation.
I sent an email earlier to the list with a patch to a descriptor which
should be able to help. On the gump side of
things, we are wondering whether we should not repatriate all the gump
project descriptors in the gump
CVS. Even then, we will always need from time to time some cooperation
from individual projects.
Particularly when new dependencies are being added to a project, or
sometimes to find creative ways
of bridging situations when one of your dependencies has built in an
incompatible change in CVS HEAD
(happens unfortunately sometimes), and there is no released version yet
that you could check in
in your lib directory reflecting the new API, or ... plenty of special
cases I am not thinking about
but could happen.
Now for all practicall purposes, could you try to check in my patch ? :-)
>Cheers,
>Niclas
>
>
>
Cheers,
Antoine
Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 1. Why doesn't it pick up Maven project descriptors instead, since
> to me it seems that most is available in that? Does it have to use
> Ant?
These are two different questions.
Maven project descriptors may contain all information that Gump needs,
but there are some discontinuities. For example, the names for the
projects Maven and Gump use may be different. AFAIU Maven has a gump
goal that can generate Gump descriptors from Maven project
descriptors.
"Traditional" Gump cannot deal with Maven builds at all, and will
probably never learn it since the way to go is the Python rewrite of
Gump. "Python" Gump has some initial support for Maven in addition to
Ant and scripts, but it is not completely there yet.
Cheers
Stefan
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 1. Why doesn't it pick up Maven project descriptors instead, since
> to me it seems that most is available in that? Does it have to use
> Ant?
These are two different questions.
Maven project descriptors may contain all information that Gump needs,
but there are some discontinuities. For example, the names for the
projects Maven and Gump use may be different. AFAIU Maven has a gump
goal that can generate Gump descriptors from Maven project
descriptors.
"Traditional" Gump cannot deal with Maven builds at all, and will
probably never learn it since the way to go is the Python rewrite of
Gump. "Python" Gump has some initial support for Maven in addition to
Ant and scripts, but it is not completely there yet.
Cheers
Stefan
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> I have been through it all, and I am somewhat overwhelmed with the amount
of
> generated output. And some clearance has been achieved, but I think I need
to
> digest some and perhaps get some hands-on experience.
I hear you, and thanks for making an attempt. I want to make Gump more
available to all, but I know it is overwhleming at first. I think the Gump
Team need to work on this, so this is good feedback that you've given.
> 1. Am I expected to set up Gump on my own system, or how do I go about
finding
> out what is causing the current nags? Waiting several hours to see what a
> change made is a bit tedious, isn't it?
We used to be lucky in that we had more hosts, and the build window was
shorter. That said, I'd rather not see folks install Gumpy merely to test
out metedata changes. Since today (unfortunately) it is that or wait a day,
I recommend you wait, and just don't worry if it take a while. Gump is meant
to be there today, tomorrow, nex week, next year -- to track changes over
time -- it doesn't matter if it takes a little while to get going.
BTW: I would like Gump to have a server side web app in order to verify/test
metadata, but that is a ways off, at best.
> 2. How do we resolve the current status? We basically have a bunch of
Avalon
> committers, who are as ignorant as me and doesn't understand Gump, and
then
> there is Leo Simons, who is busy with all kinds of stuff... :o)
I think that now we (the Gump Team) are aware that this is a community
education/communications issue, we'll do our best to help.
regards
Adam
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
Thanks Adam,
I have been through it all, and I am somewhat overwhelmed with the amount of
generated output. And some clearance has been achieved, but I think I need to
digest some and perhaps get some hands-on experience.
However, some concrete questions;
1. Am I expected to set up Gump on my own system, or how do I go about finding
out what is causing the current nags? Waiting several hours to see what a
change made is a bit tedious, isn't it?
2. How do we resolve the current status? We basically have a bunch of Avalon
committers, who are as ignorant as me and doesn't understand Gump, and then
there is Leo Simons, who is busy with all kinds of stuff... :o)
Cheers
Niclas
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> 2. I am trying to become, but it ain't easy, and the long other post,
makes me
> even more pessimistic :o(
Sorry about that.
> I think I am lacking Pictures of the process.
Does this give a picture? A build order...
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/buildLog.html
Basically Gump determines a set of projects (and where things are -- i.e.
stored in modules in CVS or SVN, etc.) and a build order from dependencies
that each project states it has, on other projects.
> What files are GUMP picking up from where?
http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/metadata/index.html#workspace
and
http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/metadata/index.html#profile
For example:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/jakarta-gump/gump.xml
and
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/jakarta-gump/profile/gump.xml
> Where does the process start?
> What is required at the project vs the "Gump Runner" side?
The project simply provides the metadata, with references to it's CVS store.
Do these help?
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/gump_xref/repo_module.html
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/gump_xref/output_project.html
Also, are these more familiar to you?
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/avalon/
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/avalon/index_details.html
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/avalon/gump_work/update_avalon.html
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/avalon/avalon-framework.html
etc.
> What are Modules?
http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/metadata/index.html#module
> Talk about being blur...
Yup, please do, and in doing so you'll help us fix that. Thanks.
regards
Adam
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Saturday 28 February 2004 05:19, Leo Simons wrote:
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> > On Saturday 28 February 2004 04:31, Antoine Lévy-Lambert wrote:
> >
> > So, are you a "Gump guy" ?
>
> Are you? Will you be? Everyone should be a "gump guy"!
1. I am not.
2. I am trying to become, but it ain't easy, and the long other post, makes me
even more pessimistic :o(
> did you see
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/index.html
Yes.
> http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/why.html
Yes.
> http://wiki.apache.org/avalon/AvalonAndGump
No, but didn't add enough.
I think I am lacking Pictures of the process.
What files are GUMP picking up from where?
Where does the process start? What is required at the project vs the "Gump
Runner" side?
What are Modules?
Talk about being blur...
Niclas
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Antoine Lévy-Lambert <an...@antbuild.com>
wrote:
> I had to hack my way also to figure out where is the gump descriptor
> for avalon. (used find . -name "*.xml" | xargs grep avalon)
Looking into Gump's profile may have been easier:
<module href="http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/avalon/buildsystem/gump-integration/project/avalon.xml"/>
;-)
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>>Applied (not that I know why this is needed...)
>
> Stefan Bodewig figured out that we needed this mkdir [1] [2], he
> thinks that a path containing some classes is not incorporated into
> the build classpath, because at the beginning of the build the
> directory does not exist.
Let me expand this a little.
Some JVMs drop things from the CLASSPATH that don't exist at startup
time - I think all Sun VMs after 1.3 do. They will not be included in
java.class.path and the application has no control over it.
If the build process creates a directory and compiles classes into
this directory that are later needed in the same build, we need to
ensure that the directory exists prior to starting the JVM to prevent
this.
This doesn't seem to be necessary for all situations, for example:
* forked <junit> and <java> tasks don't need a <mkdir> upfront since
they'll see the CLASSPATH environment variable.
* <javac> tasks that include the sources of the compiled classes in
the sourcepath don't need it since javac will use the sources instead.
* <javac> tasks that compile to the <work> directory won't need it
since Ant adds the target directory to the classpath.
But in general each <work> element inside a Gump descriptor will need
a corresponding <mkdir>.
Stefan
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Antoine Lévy-Lambert <an...@antbuild.com>
wrote:
> I had to hack my way also to figure out where is the gump descriptor
> for avalon. (used find . -name "*.xml" | xargs grep avalon)
Looking into Gump's profile may have been easier:
<module href="http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/avalon/buildsystem/gump-integration/project/avalon.xml"/>
;-)
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>>Applied (not that I know why this is needed...)
>
> Stefan Bodewig figured out that we needed this mkdir [1] [2], he
> thinks that a path containing some classes is not incorporated into
> the build classpath, because at the beginning of the build the
> directory does not exist.
Let me expand this a little.
Some JVMs drop things from the CLASSPATH that don't exist at startup
time - I think all Sun VMs after 1.3 do. They will not be included in
java.class.path and the application has no control over it.
If the build process creates a directory and compiles classes into
this directory that are later needed in the same build, we need to
ensure that the directory exists prior to starting the JVM to prevent
this.
This doesn't seem to be necessary for all situations, for example:
* forked <junit> and <java> tasks don't need a <mkdir> upfront since
they'll see the CLASSPATH environment variable.
* <javac> tasks that include the sources of the compiled classes in
the sourcepath don't need it since javac will use the sources instead.
* <javac> tasks that compile to the <work> directory won't need it
since Ant adds the target directory to the classpath.
But in general each <work> element inside a Gump descriptor will need
a corresponding <mkdir>.
Stefan
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
>
>http://build.try.sybase.com/eclipse-gump/gump_xref/descriptor_project.html
> is this build.try.sybase.com URL supposed to be public ? I cannot open
> it in my Web browser.
Oops, no, sorry -- one of my internal ones. I was using my browser history
to get to an xref link, and didn't look closely.
That said, coincidentally, http://gump.try.sybase.com [a public server] is
under construction once again. Once I get gumpy.py working there (and if the
VMWare ESX on this bigger/more resourced box hold up to full Gumpy load,
like the GSX on lesser hardware didn't) I'll add it to the pool.
Once I get this local box up, I'll look at the foreign world of OSX on
moof...
regards
Adam
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Antoine Lévy-Lambert <an...@antbuild.com>.
Adam R. B. Jack wrote:
>Could you enter this as an enhancement request into JIRA? I (about a month
>ago) tried having this information listed in xref, and also on each
>project/module, but even though it is in there (see the href attribute)
>
> http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/avalon/index_details.html#Definition
>
>I somehow failed:
>
>http://build.try.sybase.com/eclipse-gump/gump_xref/descriptor_project.html
>
>
>
>
Adam,
is this build.try.sybase.com URL supposed to be public ? I cannot open
it in my Web browser.
Yes, I did not see this module definition link on lsd. There are lots of
useful links in the forrest output present
on LSD, you have done a great job.
Rather than writing a JIRA, I will have a look at the existing docu, and
add whatever I feel is missing and I understand.
Adding to the documentation is a good way of getting a number of points
clarified, sometimes discussed..
And then it can help other gump users..
Cheers,
Antoine.
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
Antoine responded:
> >This much I figured. But the site docs have a large gap between "purpose"
and
> >"details".
>
> I agree, I had to hack my way also to figure out where is the gump
> descriptor for avalon.
> (used find . -name "*.xml" | xargs grep avalon)
>
Could you enter this as an enhancement request into JIRA? I (about a month
ago) tried having this information listed in xref, and also on each
project/module, but even though it is in there (see the href attribute)
http://lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump/avalon/index_details.html#Definition
I somehow failed:
http://build.try.sybase.com/eclipse-gump/gump_xref/descriptor_project.html
regards,
Adam
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Antoine Lévy-Lambert <an...@antbuild.com>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>On Saturday 28 February 2004 04:31, Antoine Lévy-Lambert wrote:
>
>So, are you a "Gump guy" ?
>
>
As Leo said, all the ASF committers can be Gump guys (or girls). Let's
say that I got
trapped into focusing on Gump because I am dreaming of getting the ant
documentation
generated automatically by Gump everynight. This led me into chasing the
different projects
which are dependencies of xml-forrest of of velocity-dvsl and which
fail. velocity-dvsl is
the current renderer of the ant xdocs proposals, and I am dreaming of
replacing it with xml-forrest.
And since I wanted - like you - to understand better how gump is
working, it is even
bringing me to learn Python so that I can understand and patch gumpy.
gumpy is the python
version of gump, the one on use on lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump. I need
to help make gumpy
more platform independent (currently it is difficult to make it run
properly under Windows,
because gumpy uses some shell programs of UNIX such as cp, rsync, cat).
>Any help in this area is greatly appreciated, especially since Leo Simons
>"may" lower his involvement around here.
>
>
>
There is an active Gump community - if you ask a question on the gump list,
currently gump@jakarta.apache.org, will be renamed soon because gump is
becoming
an Apache top level project - you will almost certainly get answers.
>>The aim of gump is to check that a number of projects can build against
>>the head revision of each other,
>>in order to avoid a "jar hell" situation.
>>
>>
>
>This much I figured. But the site docs have a large gap between "purpose" and
>"details".
>
>
>
I agree, I had to hack my way also to figure out where is the gump
descriptor for avalon.
(used find . -name "*.xml" | xargs grep avalon)
>>Now for all practicall purposes, could you try to check in my patch ? :-)
>>
>>
>
>Applied (not that I know why this is needed...)
>
>
>
Thanks for applying the patch.
Stefan Bodewig figured out that we needed this mkdir [1] [2], he thinks
that a path containing some classes is not
incorporated into the build classpath, because at the beginning of the
build the directory does not exist.
I do not know gumpy enough yet to confirm/infirm, we will see tomorrow
if we got anywhere closer.
>Niclas
>
>
>
Cheers,
Antoine
Footnotes :
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=gump&m=107726999318444&w=2
[2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=avalon-dev&m=107779292212011&w=2
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Saturday 28 February 2004 04:31, Antoine Lévy-Lambert wrote:
>
> So, are you a "Gump guy" ?
Are you? Will you be? Everyone should be a "gump guy"!
> Any help in this area is greatly appreciated, especially since Leo Simons
> "may" lower his involvement around here.
I am one of the initial members of the gump PMC though ;)
>>The aim of gump is to check that a number of projects can build against
>>the head revision of each other,
>>in order to avoid a "jar hell" situation.
>
> This much I figured. But the site docs have a large gap between "purpose" and
> "details".
did you see
http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/index.html
http://jakarta.apache.org/gump/why.html
http://wiki.apache.org/avalon/AvalonAndGump
--
cheers,
- Leo Simons
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Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Antoine Lévy-Lambert <an...@antbuild.com>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>On Saturday 28 February 2004 04:31, Antoine Lévy-Lambert wrote:
>
>So, are you a "Gump guy" ?
>
>
As Leo said, all the ASF committers can be Gump guys (or girls). Let's
say that I got
trapped into focusing on Gump because I am dreaming of getting the ant
documentation
generated automatically by Gump everynight. This led me into chasing the
different projects
which are dependencies of xml-forrest of of velocity-dvsl and which
fail. velocity-dvsl is
the current renderer of the ant xdocs proposals, and I am dreaming of
replacing it with xml-forrest.
And since I wanted - like you - to understand better how gump is
working, it is even
bringing me to learn Python so that I can understand and patch gumpy.
gumpy is the python
version of gump, the one on use on lsd.student.utwente.nl/gump. I need
to help make gumpy
more platform independent (currently it is difficult to make it run
properly under Windows,
because gumpy uses some shell programs of UNIX such as cp, rsync, cat).
>Any help in this area is greatly appreciated, especially since Leo Simons
>"may" lower his involvement around here.
>
>
>
There is an active Gump community - if you ask a question on the gump list,
currently gump@jakarta.apache.org, will be renamed soon because gump is
becoming
an Apache top level project - you will almost certainly get answers.
>>The aim of gump is to check that a number of projects can build against
>>the head revision of each other,
>>in order to avoid a "jar hell" situation.
>>
>>
>
>This much I figured. But the site docs have a large gap between "purpose" and
>"details".
>
>
>
I agree, I had to hack my way also to figure out where is the gump
descriptor for avalon.
(used find . -name "*.xml" | xargs grep avalon)
>>Now for all practicall purposes, could you try to check in my patch ? :-)
>>
>>
>
>Applied (not that I know why this is needed...)
>
>
>
Thanks for applying the patch.
Stefan Bodewig figured out that we needed this mkdir [1] [2], he thinks
that a path containing some classes is not
incorporated into the build classpath, because at the beginning of the
build the directory does not exist.
I do not know gumpy enough yet to confirm/infirm, we will see tomorrow
if we got anywhere closer.
>Niclas
>
>
>
Cheers,
Antoine
Footnotes :
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=gump&m=107726999318444&w=2
[2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=avalon-dev&m=107779292212011&w=2
Re: [GUMP@lsd]: avalon/avalon failed
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Saturday 28 February 2004 04:31, Antoine Lévy-Lambert wrote:
So, are you a "Gump guy" ?
Any help in this area is greatly appreciated, especially since Leo Simons
"may" lower his involvement around here.
> The aim of gump is to check that a number of projects can build against
> the head revision of each other,
> in order to avoid a "jar hell" situation.
This much I figured. But the site docs have a large gap between "purpose" and
"details".
> Now for all practicall purposes, could you try to check in my patch ? :-)
Applied (not that I know why this is needed...)
Niclas
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