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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com> on 2002/10/22 21:45:15 UTC
Proposal: httpd-like PMC organisation
We already have a line in our charter about having a jakarta-commons
specific PMC. Right now it is modeled after jakarta, with 3
members.
I would like to propose changing this number to include more
people - I think the right solution is more closer to what httpd
and apr projects are doing, where the PMC is composed of most
active commiters.
My proposal is to modify the charter so that a jakarta-commons PMC
is composed of all active commiters. This will be volunteer-based,
in the sense that any active commiter who wants to become
part of the PMC will announce his willingness to participate.
Questions:
- should we vote on the volunteering offer ? What is httpd doing ?
- Should we impose a 2-3 month wait period for new commiters ? )
- should the pmc have a separate mail list ? ( I personally don't
think so - but that's how other pmcs are organised )
The commons PMC members will split the task of monitoring the
files. All decisions will continue to be taken by majority
vote of all jakarta-commons commiters.
Not that this is not a proposal to form a top-level project -
just to better organise ourself. Jakarta-commons is IMO at the
core of jakarta - with the most diverse set of commiters from
almost all jakarta projects. Any major issue will be forwarded
to the Jakarta PMC.
--
Costin
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Re: Proposal: httpd-like PMC organisation
Posted by "Michael A. Smith" <ma...@apache.org>.
+1 on the proposal to add a commons oversight board. We don't need to
name it PMC (the charter doesn't give this oversight board a name, it
just makes the analogy to the jakarta PMC).
Oh, and I've already volunteered.
michael
p.s. Did anyone else see a 6 hour delay between the time it looks like
Costin sent this and actually receiving it?
Costin Manolache wrote:
> We already have a line in our charter about having a jakarta-commons
> specific PMC. Right now it is modeled after jakarta, with 3
> members.
>
> I would like to propose changing this number to include more
> people - I think the right solution is more closer to what httpd
> and apr projects are doing, where the PMC is composed of most
> active commiters.
>
> My proposal is to modify the charter so that a jakarta-commons PMC
> is composed of all active commiters. This will be volunteer-based,
> in the sense that any active commiter who wants to become
> part of the PMC will announce his willingness to participate.
>
> Questions:
> - should we vote on the volunteering offer ? What is httpd doing ?
> - Should we impose a 2-3 month wait period for new commiters ? )
> - should the pmc have a separate mail list ? ( I personally don't
> think so - but that's how other pmcs are organised )
>
> The commons PMC members will split the task of monitoring the
> files. All decisions will continue to be taken by majority
> vote of all jakarta-commons commiters.
>
> Not that this is not a proposal to form a top-level project -
> just to better organise ourself. Jakarta-commons is IMO at the
> core of jakarta - with the most diverse set of commiters from
> almost all jakarta projects. Any major issue will be forwarded
> to the Jakarta PMC.
>
>
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Re: Proposal: httpd-like PMC organisation
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>
>> Questions:
>> - should we vote on the volunteering offer ? What is httpd doing ?
>
> Yes. In a way you are trusted with a task. If people think your not up
> to it, they should be able to -1 it. Also a lot of +1's is good for the
> ego ;)
Well, one thing I would like to avoid is making it 'political' or
subjective or tie it with 'ego' issues :-)
That's why I would much prefer a more deterministic system - if
you're an active commiter ( i.e. spend few hours a week reading
the mail and making commits ) and you've been around for N months - then
you can add yourself to a list, togheter with the projects you
volunteer to monitor.
If someone is a commons commiter - he can vote and make code changes
and everything else. All important decisions are already majority
based.
I'll try to find out exactly how things work in httpd.
>> - should the pmc have a separate mail list ? ( I personally don't
>> think so - but that's how other pmcs are organised )
>
> Will be usefull I think. There is already too much mail and this way you
> keep discussions clean (not saying it should be a closed list though)
Good point.
Costin
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Re: Proposal: httpd-like PMC organisation
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
> Questions:
> - should we vote on the volunteering offer ? What is httpd doing ?
Yes. In a way you are trusted with a task. If people think your not up
to it, they should be able to -1 it. Also a lot of +1's is good for the
ego ;)
> - Should we impose a 2-3 month wait period for new commiters ? )
Is solved by above..
> - should the pmc have a separate mail list ? ( I personally don't
> think so - but that's how other pmcs are organised )
Will be usefull I think. There is already too much mail and this way you
keep discussions clean (not saying it should be a closed list though)
>
> The commons PMC members will split the task of monitoring the
> files. All decisions will continue to be taken by majority
> vote of all jakarta-commons commiters.
>
> Not that this is not a proposal to form a top-level project -
> just to better organise ourself. Jakarta-commons is IMO at the
> core of jakarta - with the most diverse set of commiters from
> almost all jakarta projects. Any major issue will be forwarded
> to the Jakarta PMC.
+1 on the proposal btw ;)
Mvgr,
Martin
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Re: Proposal: httpd-like PMC organisation
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Costin Manolache wrote:
> We already have a line in our charter about having a jakarta-commons
> specific PMC. Right now it is modeled after jakarta, with 3
> members.
Has this been confirmed as legal according to the Apache rules? Using the
name PMC. Or is it just that we can call it PMC but it's not recognised by
the board as an actual Project PMC?
> I would like to propose changing this number to include more
> people - I think the right solution is more closer to what httpd
> and apr projects are doing, where the PMC is composed of most
> active commiters.
>
> My proposal is to modify the charter so that a jakarta-commons PMC
> is composed of all active commiters. This will be volunteer-based,
> in the sense that any active commiter who wants to become
> part of the PMC will announce his willingness to participate.
>
> Questions:
> - should we vote on the volunteering offer ? What is httpd doing ?
> - Should we impose a 2-3 month wait period for new commiters ? )
> - should the pmc have a separate mail list ? ( I personally don't
> think so - but that's how other pmcs are organised )
All good questions. Having a separate mail list seems unnecessary given
the current mode of self-management for the project, so the only reason
for the mail list I can think of is if an external body [say the Jakarta
PMC] needed to talk to the pmc.
As part of the reason for this [I imagine] is due to criticism from
non-Jakarta members concerning the loose management structure in Jakarta,
then taking a good look at the httpd structure would be good. Do they
nominate for pmc or volunteer etc. How inactive is someone before they
leave/pushed from the pmc.
A wait on new committers seems a good ideas. If a nnew codebase joined
[without incubating] then I could see a reason why that codebase should
have a member on the pmc, but maybe it should be that a current pmc person
should be on their codebase.
> The commons PMC members will split the task of monitoring the
> files. All decisions will continue to be taken by majority
> vote of all jakarta-commons commiters.
>
> Not that this is not a proposal to form a top-level project -
> just to better organise ourself. Jakarta-commons is IMO at the
> core of jakarta - with the most diverse set of commiters from
> almost all jakarta projects. Any major issue will be forwarded
> to the Jakarta PMC.
Seems good.
Hen
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Re: Proposal: httpd-like PMC organisation
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
What's the point?
I mean, what problem are we having that this will solve?
I know we noted having an oversight committee in the charter, but we seem to
have never needed it. Any problems got civilly discuss and solved.
geir
On 10/22/02 3:45 PM, "Costin Manolache" <cm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> We already have a line in our charter about having a jakarta-commons
> specific PMC. Right now it is modeled after jakarta, with 3
> members.
>
> I would like to propose changing this number to include more
> people - I think the right solution is more closer to what httpd
> and apr projects are doing, where the PMC is composed of most
> active commiters.
>
> My proposal is to modify the charter so that a jakarta-commons PMC
> is composed of all active commiters. This will be volunteer-based,
> in the sense that any active commiter who wants to become
> part of the PMC will announce his willingness to participate.
>
> Questions:
> - should we vote on the volunteering offer ? What is httpd doing ?
> - Should we impose a 2-3 month wait period for new commiters ? )
> - should the pmc have a separate mail list ? ( I personally don't
> think so - but that's how other pmcs are organised )
>
> The commons PMC members will split the task of monitoring the
> files. All decisions will continue to be taken by majority
> vote of all jakarta-commons commiters.
>
> Not that this is not a proposal to form a top-level project -
> just to better organise ourself. Jakarta-commons is IMO at the
> core of jakarta - with the most diverse set of commiters from
> almost all jakarta projects. Any major issue will be forwarded
> to the Jakarta PMC.
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr.
geirm@adeptra.com +1-203-355-2219 (w)
Adeptra Inc. +1-203-247-1713 (m)
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Re: Proposal: httpd-like PMC organisation
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
news <ne...@main.gmane.org> wrote on 23/10/2002 05:45:15 AM:
> We already have a line in our charter about having a jakarta-commons
> specific PMC. Right now it is modeled after jakarta, with 3
> members.
>
> I would like to propose changing this number to include more
> people - I think the right solution is more closer to what httpd
> and apr projects are doing, where the PMC is composed of most
> active commiters.
>
> My proposal is to modify the charter so that a jakarta-commons PMC
> is composed of all active commiters. This will be volunteer-based,
> in the sense that any active commiter who wants to become
> part of the PMC will announce his willingness to participate.
+1.
> Questions:
> - should we vote on the volunteering offer ? What is httpd doing ?
Sure, and don't know.
> - Should we impose a 2-3 month wait period for new commiters ?
-0. I'd rather not. We can let people know when they're overstepping the
bounds fairly easily.
> - should the pmc have a separate mail list ? ( I personally don't
> think so - but that's how other pmcs are organised )
-1.
> The commons PMC members will split the task of monitoring the
> files. All decisions will continue to be taken by majority
> vote of all jakarta-commons commiters.
>
> Not that this is not a proposal to form a top-level project -
> just to better organise ourself. Jakarta-commons is IMO at the
> core of jakarta - with the most diverse set of commiters from
> almost all jakarta projects. Any major issue will be forwarded
> to the Jakarta PMC.
Excellent ideas.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
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