Using the (GPLed) LZO codec in system and shipping products

[Sean <se...@hotmail.com>]

Hi HBasers,
We are working on a product shipping to our customer as a commercial product, which is unlike most of you guys who use it as an in-house tool and build solution on top of it internally. Therefore, here I have a specific question about GPL licensing issue about the LZO codec. (It is definitely not a concern to most of you guys, but I'd doubt check here)

First, here is how we use HBase. All of our development work is in application level, i.e., our business logic code runs within the JVM that an HBase client runs on (we have some M/R code, but MR task JVMs are also simply HBase clients, so I'd say it's same as my Put/Delete HBase logic).
I understand that the LZO codec and its Java wrapper are GPL licensed. And my limited understanding toward GPL is that "you are required to GPL your code, i.e., open the source of it, if you link your logic to the GPL modules", but you are not required to do so if your server communicate to the GPL component with RPC/HTTP and etc.
Here is my understanding but I am not really sure about it:    1) RegionServer is the process that uses ('links to') the LZO codec, and the JVM that HBase client runs in communicates with RS (the process 'links to' GPL module) through RPCs.   2) Therefore, my business logic is not shipped under the 'linked' mode.
So, I feel this is an OK case for me, i.e., I have not violate the GPL license. But I'd like to doubt check with the experience community users. Please kindly provide your comments.
Many thanks,Sean 		 	   		  

RE: Using the (GPLed) LZO codec in system and shipping products

[Sean <se...@hotmail.com>]

I do not have intent to re-restribute HBase as GPL. Here I want to ask whether I will be forced to open-source my business logic code (application layer code, I do not touch HBase-internal code at all) if I use the LZO codec. 
 
An IP lawyer would be necessary, but I believe 'laywer' needs to understand the technical detail explanation as well.
 
Many thanks,
Sean
 

 
> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 12:15:24 -0800
> Subject: Re: Using the (GPLed) LZO codec in system and shipping products
> From: ryanobjc@gmail.com
> To: user@hbase.apache.org
> 
> One last thing, you really need to seek out your IP lawyer, because if
> you decide to distribute HBase as GPL, your linked applications may
> become subject to the GPL as well.
> 
> Regards,
> -ryan
> 
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > To follow up slightly... Various reasonable and education people have
> > differing opinions on what constitutes creating a derived work means
> > in the context of LGPL and GPL.  The ASF has taken one position.  If
> > you choose to ship HBase with the LZO library, you should check with
> > your lawyer to see what terms you should offer it as. You should also
> > balance this against the business risk you are willing to take.  But
> > you won't be able to call it "Apache HBase now with more LZO", since
> > you are forking and re-licensing HBase.  Again, check with your legal
> > here.
> >
> > Good luck!
> > -ryan
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> please ask your lawyer.
> >>
> >> On Jan 5, 2011 11:42 AM, "Sean" <se...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi HBasers,
> >>> We are working on a product shipping to our customer as a commercial
> >>> product, which is unlike most of you guys who use it as an in-house tool and
> >>> build solution on top of it internally. Therefore, here I have a specific
> >>> question about GPL licensing issue about the LZO codec. (It is definitely
> >>> not a concern to most of you guys, but I'd doubt check here)
> >>>
> >>> First, here is how we use HBase. All of our development work is in
> >>> application level, i.e., our business logic code runs within the JVM that an
> >>> HBase client runs on (we have some M/R code, but MR task JVMs are also
> >>> simply HBase clients, so I'd say it's same as my Put/Delete HBase logic).
> >>> I understand that the LZO codec and its Java wrapper are GPL licensed. And
> >>> my limited understanding toward GPL is that "you are required to GPL your
> >>> code, i.e., open the source of it, if you link your logic to the GPL
> >>> modules", but you are not required to do so if your server communicate to
> >>> the GPL component with RPC/HTTP and etc.
> >>> Here is my understanding but I am not really sure about it: 1)
> >>> RegionServer is the process that uses ('links to') the LZO codec, and the
> >>> JVM that HBase client runs in communicates with RS (the process 'links to'
> >>> GPL module) through RPCs. 2) Therefore, my business logic is not shipped
> >>> under the 'linked' mode.
> >>> So, I feel this is an OK case for me, i.e., I have not violate the GPL
> >>> license. But I'd like to doubt check with the experience community users.
> >>> Please kindly provide your comments.
> >>> Many thanks,Sean
> >>
> >
 		 	   		  

Re: Using the (GPLed) LZO codec in system and shipping products

[Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com>]

One last thing, you really need to seek out your IP lawyer, because if
you decide to distribute HBase as GPL, your linked applications may
become subject to the GPL as well.

Regards,
-ryan

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> To follow up slightly... Various reasonable and education people have
> differing opinions on what constitutes creating a derived work means
> in the context of LGPL and GPL.  The ASF has taken one position.  If
> you choose to ship HBase with the LZO library, you should check with
> your lawyer to see what terms you should offer it as. You should also
> balance this against the business risk you are willing to take.  But
> you won't be able to call it "Apache HBase now with more LZO", since
> you are forking and re-licensing HBase.  Again, check with your legal
> here.
>
> Good luck!
> -ryan
>
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> please ask your lawyer.
>>
>> On Jan 5, 2011 11:42 AM, "Sean" <se...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi HBasers,
>>> We are working on a product shipping to our customer as a commercial
>>> product, which is unlike most of you guys who use it as an in-house tool and
>>> build solution on top of it internally. Therefore, here I have a specific
>>> question about GPL licensing issue about the LZO codec. (It is definitely
>>> not a concern to most of you guys, but I'd doubt check here)
>>>
>>> First, here is how we use HBase. All of our development work is in
>>> application level, i.e., our business logic code runs within the JVM that an
>>> HBase client runs on (we have some M/R code, but MR task JVMs are also
>>> simply HBase clients, so I'd say it's same as my Put/Delete HBase logic).
>>> I understand that the LZO codec and its Java wrapper are GPL licensed. And
>>> my limited understanding toward GPL is that "you are required to GPL your
>>> code, i.e., open the source of it, if you link your logic to the GPL
>>> modules", but you are not required to do so if your server communicate to
>>> the GPL component with RPC/HTTP and etc.
>>> Here is my understanding but I am not really sure about it: 1)
>>> RegionServer is the process that uses ('links to') the LZO codec, and the
>>> JVM that HBase client runs in communicates with RS (the process 'links to'
>>> GPL module) through RPCs. 2) Therefore, my business logic is not shipped
>>> under the 'linked' mode.
>>> So, I feel this is an OK case for me, i.e., I have not violate the GPL
>>> license. But I'd like to doubt check with the experience community users.
>>> Please kindly provide your comments.
>>> Many thanks,Sean
>>
>

Re: Using the (GPLed) LZO codec in system and shipping products

[Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

To follow up slightly... Various reasonable and education people have
differing opinions on what constitutes creating a derived work means
in the context of LGPL and GPL.  The ASF has taken one position.  If
you choose to ship HBase with the LZO library, you should check with
your lawyer to see what terms you should offer it as. You should also
balance this against the business risk you are willing to take.  But
you won't be able to call it "Apache HBase now with more LZO", since
you are forking and re-licensing HBase.  Again, check with your legal
here.

Good luck!
-ryan

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> please ask your lawyer.
>
> On Jan 5, 2011 11:42 AM, "Sean" <se...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi HBasers,
>> We are working on a product shipping to our customer as a commercial
>> product, which is unlike most of you guys who use it as an in-house tool and
>> build solution on top of it internally. Therefore, here I have a specific
>> question about GPL licensing issue about the LZO codec. (It is definitely
>> not a concern to most of you guys, but I'd doubt check here)
>>
>> First, here is how we use HBase. All of our development work is in
>> application level, i.e., our business logic code runs within the JVM that an
>> HBase client runs on (we have some M/R code, but MR task JVMs are also
>> simply HBase clients, so I'd say it's same as my Put/Delete HBase logic).
>> I understand that the LZO codec and its Java wrapper are GPL licensed. And
>> my limited understanding toward GPL is that "you are required to GPL your
>> code, i.e., open the source of it, if you link your logic to the GPL
>> modules", but you are not required to do so if your server communicate to
>> the GPL component with RPC/HTTP and etc.
>> Here is my understanding but I am not really sure about it: 1)
>> RegionServer is the process that uses ('links to') the LZO codec, and the
>> JVM that HBase client runs in communicates with RS (the process 'links to'
>> GPL module) through RPCs. 2) Therefore, my business logic is not shipped
>> under the 'linked' mode.
>> So, I feel this is an OK case for me, i.e., I have not violate the GPL
>> license. But I'd like to doubt check with the experience community users.
>> Please kindly provide your comments.
>> Many thanks,Sean
>

Re: Using the (GPLed) LZO codec in system and shipping products

[Ryan Rawson <ry...@gmail.com>]

please ask your lawyer.
On Jan 5, 2011 11:42 AM, "Sean" <se...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi HBasers,
> We are working on a product shipping to our customer as a commercial
product, which is unlike most of you guys who use it as an in-house tool and
build solution on top of it internally. Therefore, here I have a specific
question about GPL licensing issue about the LZO codec. (It is definitely
not a concern to most of you guys, but I'd doubt check here)
>
> First, here is how we use HBase. All of our development work is in
application level, i.e., our business logic code runs within the JVM that an
HBase client runs on (we have some M/R code, but MR task JVMs are also
simply HBase clients, so I'd say it's same as my Put/Delete HBase logic).
> I understand that the LZO codec and its Java wrapper are GPL licensed. And
my limited understanding toward GPL is that "you are required to GPL your
code, i.e., open the source of it, if you link your logic to the GPL
modules", but you are not required to do so if your server communicate to
the GPL component with RPC/HTTP and etc.
> Here is my understanding but I am not really sure about it: 1)
RegionServer is the process that uses ('links to') the LZO codec, and the
JVM that HBase client runs in communicates with RS (the process 'links to'
GPL module) through RPCs. 2) Therefore, my business logic is not shipped
under the 'linked' mode.
> So, I feel this is an OK case for me, i.e., I have not violate the GPL
license. But I'd like to doubt check with the experience community users.
Please kindly provide your comments.
> Many thanks,Sean