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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org> on 2005/03/18 09:23:34 UTC
better use of Jira for Forrest
We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
good view of our situation.
We recently defined a stack categories. That helps to provide
other ways to browse the outstanding issues.
Today i removed the 0.6.1 release version. That helps with the
Roadmap because now we can see the 0.8 issues too.
That Roadmap shows a stack of issues marked as occuring against
HEAD version and then another stack against 0.7 version.
Should all the 0.7 ones be moved to HEAD, or the other way around,
should all HEAD issues be moved to 0.7 version?
I reckon the latter, move HEAD to 0.7 version. Then we should
remove "HEAD version" as an option in Jira.
What do others reckon?
Is there anything else that we can do to improve our use
of Jira?
--David
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote:
> David Crossley a ?crit :
> >
> >It also led to a brilliant idea about a regular bug day
> >which we should instigate soon.
>
> When will we decide the regular bug day ?
How about we decide now.
I reckon once per month. Perhaps we can do it
more often if it works.
Which day of the week?
Not a Monday because people are getting back to work
and it is often hectic at the beginning of a week.
Probably the same could be said about Friday, trying
to finish stuff up at the end of the week.
One good thing about Friday is that people could
perhaps do some while at work and some on the Saturday
morning, even do some after their Friday night out.
Friday didn't seem to work well when Apache Cocoon
tried this. Perhaps everyone had big engagements for
Friday night and were hungover for the Saturday morning.
The first week of each month makes it easier to remember.
Does someone have a better idea?
--David
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Our first ForrestTuesday was a success.
> Thanks to everyone who participated or
> just listened.
>
> A log of the IRC is here:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/forrest/events/forrest-tuesday-20050906/
>
> Thanks to to cheche and friend jenny. The live
> log of the session was very useful.
>
> Next one is Tuesday 4 October 2005.
Diwaker also put a log there. Lets remove mine
and leave diwaker's arrangement.
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Our first ForrestTuesday was a success.
Thanks to everyone who participated or
just listened.
A log of the IRC is here:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/forrest/events/forrest-tuesday-20050906/
Thanks to to cheche and friend jenny. The live
log of the session was very useful.
Next one is Tuesday 4 October 2005.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Connect to irc.freenode.net and join channel #for-s
-David
David Crossley wrote:
> http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
> 6 September starting at 06:00 Greenwich Mean Time.
> See the calendar for your time zone.
>
> The main topic for the day is "internal structure XHTML2".
> Also an ever-present task to clean up our Issue Tracker.
> The main communication medium is still the mailing list.
> The IRC channel name will be announced there.
>
> Converting to XHTML2 is going to touch on a lot of areas,
> sitemaps, stylesheets, "views", documentation, plugins.
> So there is room for everyone to help.
>
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-184
> That also lists some of the subtasks.
>
> -David
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> > I
> > therefore propose that we use the Cocoon Wiki instead. We'll have a
> > Lenya instance for the next time.
>
> +1 and sorry.
Thanks for the effort with trying to get it happening.
> > Do we need to clear this with the Cocoon folk?
No it will be fine.
> We can use as well http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/ I reckon there is no
> problem.
Or we can use http://wiki.apache.org/general
Whatever. We can cleanup and remove those later.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 2005-09-05 at 14:01 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> > Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >>What IRC server are we using? I assume the channel name will be posted here.
> >
> >
> > irc.freenode.net and yes.
>
> Thanks.
>
> I just tested the Lenya instance and it seems that the bug that has been
> causing Thorstens problems on this installation is still present.
Hmm, that 1.4 bug is really a showstopper. We lenya folks have to get a
grip on that. :(
> I
> therefore propose that we use the Cocoon Wiki instead. We'll have a
> Lenya instance for the next time.
>
+1 and sorry.
> Do we need to clear this with the Cocoon folk?
>
We can use as well http://wiki.apache.org/lenya/ I reckon there is no
problem.
> Ross
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
...
>>What IRC server are we using? I assume the channel name will be posted here.
>
>
> irc.freenode.net and yes.
Thanks.
I just tested the Lenya instance and it seems that the bug that has been
causing Thorstens problems on this installation is still present. I
therefore propose that we use the Cocoon Wiki instead. We'll have a
Lenya instance for the next time.
Do we need to clear this with the Cocoon folk?
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
>
> Is there a reason of why the name of channel is not public?
Yes. We decided that we don't want a channel that
is open all the time. So it will be a random channel
name each month.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>>David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>So the start time is just under 23 hours away.
>>
>>I will be there from the start 7am my time, 6am UTC. But only for an hour.
>>
>>Will anyone else be present at that time, if so do you know how to start
>>the IRC channel?
>
>
> I will be there. I will open the channel.
Is there a reason of why the name of channel is not public?
Cheers,
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >So the start time is just under 23 hours away.
>
> I will be there from the start 7am my time, 6am UTC. But only for an hour.
>
> Will anyone else be present at that time, if so do you know how to start
> the IRC channel?
I will be there. I will open the channel.
> If not I will do it but I don't know how or where (I'll
> have to read some of the materials David links to from
> http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
>
> What IRC server are we using? I assume the channel name will be posted here.
irc.freenode.net and yes.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> So the start time is just under 23 hours away.
I will be there from the start 7am my time, 6am UTC. But only for an hour.
Will anyone else be present at that time, if so do you know how to start
the IRC channel? If not I will do it but I don't know how or where (I'll
have to read some of the materials David links to from
http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
What IRC server are we using? I assume the channel name will be posted here.
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
So the start time is just under 23 hours away.
-David
David Crossley wrote:
> http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
> 6 September starting at 06:00 Greenwich Mean Time.
> See the calendar for your time zone.
>
> The main topic for the day is "internal structure XHTML2".
> Also an ever-present task to clean up our Issue Tracker.
> The main communication medium is still the mailing list.
> The IRC channel name will be announced there.
>
> Converting to XHTML2 is going to touch on a lot of areas,
> sitemaps, stylesheets, "views", documentation, plugins.
> So there is room for everyone to help.
>
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-184
> That also lists some of the subtasks.
>
> -David
Forrest Tuesday on 6 September
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
6 September starting at 06:00 Greenwich Mean Time.
See the calendar for your time zone.
The main topic for the day is "internal structure XHTML2".
Also an ever-present task to clean up our Issue Tracker.
The main communication medium is still the mailing list.
The IRC channel name will be announced there.
Converting to XHTML2 is going to touch on a lot of areas,
sitemaps, stylesheets, "views", documentation, plugins.
So there is room for everyone to help.
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-184
That also lists some of the subtasks.
-David
Re: Refactor sitemaps for XHTML2 and the LM (Re: Forrest Tuesday)
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Tim Williams wrote:
> On 8/29/05, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
>>
>>>Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The *implementation* of the move to XHTML2 would be eased considerably
>>>>by refactoring our sitemaps to use the locationmap.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why is that? In my limited understanding lm allows to specify the
>>>location of a resource in more sophisticated ways, where is the
>>>connection?
>>
>>Right now the sitemaps are a complex web of possible locations for many
>>resources, with extensive tests for the existence of a file. These are
>>duplicated across many sitemaps. The LM will remove all of that by
>>having a central file describing the location of resources.
>>
>>That is, there will be only one place to edit as we replace chunks of
>>the sitemap functionality.
>>
>>
>>>>Tim reports that the
>>>>project locationmap mount doesn't work properly yet, but unless he tells
>>>>us otherwise I think we can safely move forward with this refactoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not sure this kind of lazy consensus is the right approach here. I
>>>understand is that Tim has pointed out a problem with the lm
>>>implementation. Should it not be up to us now to demo that this
>>>problem has been solved (us of course including Tim :-) rather than
>>>expecting Tim to object?
>>
>>No, you misunderstand the issue Tim has identified.
>>
>>As Locationmaps currently stand there is only one locationmap file. Tim
>>is working on allowing that file to import a project locationmap as
>>well. The project locationmap will be able to override the default
>>locationmap, thus users can customise Forrests directory layout without
>>having to redefine the whole thing.
>>
>>Tim is having a problem with this *extension* to the locationmap not
>>with the locationmap itself, which works perfectly.
>
>
> This is correct, it does *not* effect the refactoring work. Anyway, I
> hope to have this resolved within the next day or so anyway so that we
> can mount project-level locationmaps *if* they exist.
Thanks to Ferdinand for highlighting this potential oversight and Tim
for confirming my thoughts were correct. If I'd been incorrect this
could have made a mess ;-)
Ross
Re: Refactor sitemaps for XHTML2 and the LM (Re: Forrest Tuesday)
Posted by Tim Williams <wi...@gmail.com>.
On 8/29/05, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
> Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> > Ross Gardler wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The *implementation* of the move to XHTML2 would be eased considerably
> >>by refactoring our sitemaps to use the locationmap.
> >
> >
> > Why is that? In my limited understanding lm allows to specify the
> > location of a resource in more sophisticated ways, where is the
> > connection?
>
> Right now the sitemaps are a complex web of possible locations for many
> resources, with extensive tests for the existence of a file. These are
> duplicated across many sitemaps. The LM will remove all of that by
> having a central file describing the location of resources.
>
> That is, there will be only one place to edit as we replace chunks of
> the sitemap functionality.
>
> >>Tim reports that the
> >>project locationmap mount doesn't work properly yet, but unless he tells
> >>us otherwise I think we can safely move forward with this refactoring.
> >
> >
> > Not sure this kind of lazy consensus is the right approach here. I
> > understand is that Tim has pointed out a problem with the lm
> > implementation. Should it not be up to us now to demo that this
> > problem has been solved (us of course including Tim :-) rather than
> > expecting Tim to object?
>
> No, you misunderstand the issue Tim has identified.
>
> As Locationmaps currently stand there is only one locationmap file. Tim
> is working on allowing that file to import a project locationmap as
> well. The project locationmap will be able to override the default
> locationmap, thus users can customise Forrests directory layout without
> having to redefine the whole thing.
>
> Tim is having a problem with this *extension* to the locationmap not
> with the locationmap itself, which works perfectly.
This is correct, it does *not* effect the refactoring work. Anyway, I
hope to have this resolved within the next day or so anyway so that we
can mount project-level locationmaps *if* they exist.
--tim
Refactor sitemaps for XHTML2 and the LM (Re: Forrest Tuesday)
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>
>>The *implementation* of the move to XHTML2 would be eased considerably
>>by refactoring our sitemaps to use the locationmap.
>
>
> Why is that? In my limited understanding lm allows to specify the
> location of a resource in more sophisticated ways, where is the
> connection?
Right now the sitemaps are a complex web of possible locations for many
resources, with extensive tests for the existence of a file. These are
duplicated across many sitemaps. The LM will remove all of that by
having a central file describing the location of resources.
That is, there will be only one place to edit as we replace chunks of
the sitemap functionality.
>>Tim reports that the
>>project locationmap mount doesn't work properly yet, but unless he tells
>>us otherwise I think we can safely move forward with this refactoring.
>
>
> Not sure this kind of lazy consensus is the right approach here. I
> understand is that Tim has pointed out a problem with the lm
> implementation. Should it not be up to us now to demo that this
> problem has been solved (us of course including Tim :-) rather than
> expecting Tim to object?
No, you misunderstand the issue Tim has identified.
As Locationmaps currently stand there is only one locationmap file. Tim
is working on allowing that file to import a project locationmap as
well. The project locationmap will be able to override the default
locationmap, thus users can customise Forrests directory layout without
having to redefine the whole thing.
Tim is having a problem with this *extension* to the locationmap not
with the locationmap itself, which works perfectly.
>>I am +1 on the move to XHTML2 being a primary goal for Forrest Tuesday,
>>but with the provision that w work in a top down approach. That is, we
>>start by creating the stylesheets, templates etc. We should *not* work
>>on the core sitemaps, instead we should focus on a single path through
>>the sitemap and build it as an internal plugin. I'd suggest the path
>>should be DocumentV1.3 as the input format.
>
>
> ... so that using this plugin Forrest will translate any documentv1.3
> to xhtml2 and from there create html4 and pdf?
Yes (this is how we will provide backward compatability)
What I didn't say above is that this will be an internal plugin because
it is overriding existing matchers in the sitemaps. These would be moved
into core as the first part of the refactoring of the sitemaps to use
locationmap. Of course, the conversion of XDoc to XHTML2 would be an
input plugin.
> Can we also include direct support for the subset of xhtml2 that we
> are gonna use?
Sorry, I don't understand the question. Perhaps my poor description
above has mislead you.
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> The *implementation* of the move to XHTML2 would be eased considerably
> by refactoring our sitemaps to use the locationmap.
Why is that? In my limited understanding lm allows to specify the
location of a resource in more sophisticated ways, where is the
connection?
> Tim reports that the
> project locationmap mount doesn't work properly yet, but unless he tells
> us otherwise I think we can safely move forward with this refactoring.
Not sure this kind of lazy consensus is the right approach here. I
understand is that Tim has pointed out a problem with the lm
implementation. Should it not be up to us now to demo that this
problem has been solved (us of course including Tim :-) rather than
expecting Tim to object?
> I am +1 on the move to XHTML2 being a primary goal for Forrest Tuesday,
> but with the provision that w work in a top down approach. That is, we
> start by creating the stylesheets, templates etc. We should *not* work
> on the core sitemaps, instead we should focus on a single path through
> the sitemap and build it as an internal plugin. I'd suggest the path
> should be DocumentV1.3 as the input format.
... so that using this plugin Forrest will translate any documentv1.3
to xhtml2 and from there create html4 and pdf?
Can we also include direct support for the subset of xhtml2 that we
are gonna use?
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for
Forrest))
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Diwaker Gupta wrote:
> On Saturday 27 August 2005 10:33 pm, David Crossley wrote:
>
>>I would like to deal with "Internal structure is XHTML2"
>>and the associated issues.
>
>
> +1
The *implementation* of the move to XHTML2 would be eased considerably
by refactoring our sitemaps to use the locationmap. Tim reports that the
project locationmap mount doesn't work properly yet, but unless he tells
us otherwise I think we can safely move forward with this refactoring.
I am +1 on the move to XHTML2 being a primary goal for Forrest Tuesday,
but with the provision that w work in a top down approach. That is, we
start by creating the stylesheets, templates etc. We should *not* work
on the core sitemaps, instead we should focus on a single path through
the sitemap and build it as an internal plugin. I'd suggest the path
should be DocumentV1.3 as the input format.
This focus on a single use case will prevent us from doing work on the
core sitemaps which are to be extensively refactored soon (perhaps even
as part of the Forrest Tuesday - depends how far we get)
We should all use the space Nicola gave us to read the XHTML2
recommendation in advance of the day (I'm still trying to find enough
free time to put all the generous space Nicola left for us).
>>Do others have better suggestions?
>>
>>Perhaps just dealing with the Jira backlog would keep
>>us amused, i.e. the Issue Tracker is this month's topic.
>
>
> I would make XHTML2 the "primary" topic. And if people get bored, they can
> spend time cleaning up JIRA. I think cleaning up JIRA should an ever present
> background task during ForrestTuesdays :-) Just as you suggested below
+1000
In the second and subsequent Forrest Tuesdays I would like to see a
schedule of issues to be fixed. However, for this first one lets let it
happen as it happens and learn from the experience.
I, for one, will spend some time in the issue tracker.
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by Diwaker Gupta <di...@apache.org>.
On Saturday 27 August 2005 10:33 pm, David Crossley wrote:
> I would like to deal with "Internal structure is XHTML2"
> and the associated issues.
+1
> Do others have better suggestions?
>
> Perhaps just dealing with the Jira backlog would keep
> us amused, i.e. the Issue Tracker is this month's topic.
I would make XHTML2 the "primary" topic. And if people get bored, they can
spend time cleaning up JIRA. I think cleaning up JIRA should an ever present
background task during ForrestTuesdays :-) Just as you suggested below
> > Despite that, each BUG day should have some time devoted to cleaning up
> > JIRA. In the long run its critical that JIRA serves to guide us, and not
> > confuse us. Periodic cleaning should help.
>
> Yes, that should be a topic at every ForrestTuesday.
Diwaker
--
Web/Blog/Gallery: http://floatingsun.net
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Gav.... wrote:
>
> Although I doubt I'll be able to contribute much,
> I would like to look in on IRC
> and see whats being said and just say Hello really.
That is one of the main reasons, we can become
more familiar with each other.
> I am in Australia, I can be on from 7PM my time which is 12PM noon GMT,
> with this times, it looks like I will probably miss most of you but I will
> look in anyway.
Well you won't miss me: i am east coast Australia.
Anyway, looking forward to collaborating.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by "Gav...." <br...@brightontown.com.au>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Gardler" <rg...@apache.org>
To: <de...@forrest.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for
Forrest))
| David Crossley wrote:
| > Ross Gardler wrote:
| >
| >>Is it worth us identifying when we expect to be online during the day?
| >>I'm not talking about a commitment, it's just that we may be able to
| >>maximise benefit by trying to get online in groups.
| >
| >
| > I for one will do blocks throughout the whole day.
| > I will certainly be there for the initial few hours,
| > then away for our evening meal, back until i fall asleep.
| > Then hopefully also do some during our next day.
| >
| >
| >>Unfortunately, that day corresponds with a site visit for me. This means
| >>I will probably not be online during the day (BST). I will try and get
| >>online at something like (times in BST):
| >>
| >>6am -> 8am
| >>7.30pm -> 11.59pm
| >
| >
| > Well the current plan is to start at 9:00 am your time.
|
| Sorry, I thought we were doing midnight to midnight - not sure why I
| made that assumption, it clearly states otherwise on
| http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
|
| > I think it would be better to always start at 6:00 am.
|
| You make the call, I'll fit in with whatever time is defined. I have no
| problem running from 9am to 9am instead, I'll just do it the other way
| around 7.30pm -> 11pm and 6am -> 8am (actually I can do until 9am anyway
| the following day as I am not on site that day).
|
| Ross
Although I doubt I'll be able to contribute much, I would like to look in on
IRC
and see whats being said and just say Hello really.
I am in Australia, I can be on from 7PM my time which is 12PM noon GMT,
with this times, it looks like I will probably miss most of you but I will
look in
anyway.
Gav...
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 26/08/2005
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >Ross Gardler wrote:
> >
> >>Is it worth us identifying when we expect to be online during the day?
> >>I'm not talking about a commitment, it's just that we may be able to
> >>maximise benefit by trying to get online in groups.
> >
> >I for one will do blocks throughout the whole day.
> >I will certainly be there for the initial few hours,
> >then away for our evening meal, back until i fall asleep.
> >Then hopefully also do some during our next day.
> >
> >>Unfortunately, that day corresponds with a site visit for me. This means
> >>I will probably not be online during the day (BST). I will try and get
> >>online at something like (times in BST):
> >>
> >>6am -> 8am
> >>7.30pm -> 11.59pm
>
> >Well the current plan is to start at 9:00 am your time.
>
> Sorry, I thought we were doing midnight to midnight - not sure why I
> made that assumption, it clearly states otherwise on
> http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
>
> >I think it would be better to always start at 6:00 am.
>
> You make the call, I'll fit in with whatever time is defined. I have no
> problem running from 9am to 9am instead, I'll just do it the other way
> around 7.30pm -> 11pm and 6am -> 8am (actually I can do until 9am anyway
> the following day as I am not on site that day).
Starting at 06:00 is better because that gives people in
the European quarter a chance to join the beginning
of the ForrestTuesday before going to work. It would be
good to have as many people there for the start as possible.
If people are still keen at the end of the day,
we could close a bit later. Decide at the time.
However we do need to close the channel.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for
Forrest))
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>>Is it worth us identifying when we expect to be online during the day?
>>I'm not talking about a commitment, it's just that we may be able to
>>maximise benefit by trying to get online in groups.
>
>
> I for one will do blocks throughout the whole day.
> I will certainly be there for the initial few hours,
> then away for our evening meal, back until i fall asleep.
> Then hopefully also do some during our next day.
>
>
>>Unfortunately, that day corresponds with a site visit for me. This means
>>I will probably not be online during the day (BST). I will try and get
>>online at something like (times in BST):
>>
>>6am -> 8am
>>7.30pm -> 11.59pm
>
>
> Well the current plan is to start at 9:00 am your time.
Sorry, I thought we were doing midnight to midnight - not sure why I
made that assumption, it clearly states otherwise on
http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
> I think it would be better to always start at 6:00 am.
You make the call, I'll fit in with whatever time is defined. I have no
problem running from 9am to 9am instead, I'll just do it the other way
around 7.30pm -> 11pm and 6am -> 8am (actually I can do until 9am anyway
the following day as I am not on site that day).
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> Is it worth us identifying when we expect to be online during the day?
> I'm not talking about a commitment, it's just that we may be able to
> maximise benefit by trying to get online in groups.
I for one will do blocks throughout the whole day.
I will certainly be there for the initial few hours,
then away for our evening meal, back until i fall asleep.
Then hopefully also do some during our next day.
> Unfortunately, that day corresponds with a site visit for me. This means
> I will probably not be online during the day (BST). I will try and get
> online at something like (times in BST):
>
> 6am -> 8am
> 7.30pm -> 11.59pm
Well the current plan is to start at 9:00 am your time.
I think it would be better to always start at 6:00 am.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for
Forrest))
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
>
>
>>I would like to deal with "Internal structure is XHTML2"
>>and the associated issues.
>
>
> +1
So far there has been plenty of agreement for this. Clearly (at least in
my mind) this work will be done in Forrest:views not in skins, is my
mind correct?
If so, the "internal plugin" I referred to in an earlier post would
presumably be the internal.views plugin since it already overrides the
affected pipelines.
---
Is it worth us identifying when we expect to be online during the day?
I'm not talking about a commitment, it's just that we may be able to
maximise benefit by trying to get online in groups.
Unfortunately, that day corresponds with a site visit for me. This means
I will probably not be online during the day (BST). I will try and get
online at something like (times in BST):
6am -> 8am
7.30pm -> 11.59pm
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for
Forrest))
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> David Crossley wrote:
>
>
>>I would like to deal with "Internal structure is XHTML2"
>>and the associated issues.
>
>
> +1
>
> Though simplifying Forrest directory structure is a close second on my
> list ...
>
That is part of the config thing, I have this in mind for the second
Forrest Tuesday (the reason being that I'd like to refactor the sitemaps
before tackling this since it will make things simpler). Perhaps you
could add your thoughts to
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=112299875300003&r=1&w=2
I seem to remember you had a thread on this, perhaps you should link it
to http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-588
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> I would like to deal with "Internal structure is XHTML2"
> and the associated issues.
+1
Though simplifying Forrest directory structure is a close second on my
list ...
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Diwaker Gupta wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >
> > Each meeting could either just concentrate on getting Jira
> > under control or have a special topic like a group effort
> > to move the core to use xhtml2.
>
> More generally, we could identify a particular area to work on before hand.
> That way we can sort of direct attention to some really needy-aspect that
> might otherwise get left behind simply because no individual dev has a strong
> enough itch to work on it.
There is just over one week to go until 6 Sept.
So we should define this month's topic.
I would like to deal with "Internal structure is XHTML2"
and the associated issues.
Do others have better suggestions?
Perhaps just dealing with the Jira backlog would keep
us amused, i.e. the Issue Tracker is this month's topic.
What do others think?
> Despite that, each BUG day should have some time devoted to cleaning up JIRA.
> In the long run its critical that JIRA serves to guide us, and not confuse
> us. Periodic cleaning should help.
Yes, that should be a topic at every ForrestTuesday.
> > Also it is a place for us to get to know each
> > other a little.
>
> +1 :-)
I made a page to help co-ordinate:
ForrestTuesday monthly get-together
http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by Diwaker Gupta <di...@apache.org>.
On Thursday 18 August 2005 7:05 am, David Crossley wrote:
> In our earlier discussions, we agreed that we don't
> want to have the channel as a permanent means of
> communication. So i looked into how to restrict it.
> Just start a new channel at the beginning of the
> day with name like for-09 and it will close when
> the last one of us leaves at the end of the 24 hours.
> Simple.
+1
For a short turn around time and quick feedback, I think using IRC as a
temporary mode of communication is a great idea.
> Each meeting could either just concentrate on getting Jira
> under control or have a special topic like a group effort
> to move the core to use xhtml2.
More generally, we could identify a particular area to work on before hand.
That way we can sort of direct attention to some really needy-aspect that
might otherwise get left behind simply because no individual dev has a strong
enough itch to work on it.
Despite that, each BUG day should have some time devoted to cleaning up JIRA.
In the long run its critical that JIRA serves to guide us, and not confuse
us. Periodic cleaning should help.
> Also it is a place for us to get to know each
> other a little.
+1 :-)
--
Web/Blog/Gallery: http://floatingsun.net
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >
> >The other thing that we need to do is to log the session.
> >I will do that locally this time, unless someone knows
> >how to do a logger bot. We can put the result into
> >our events SVN.
>
> I can setup a eggdrop bot to listen in whatever irc channel that you want.
Great, okay that is settled then.
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for
Forrest))
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
>
> The other thing that we need to do is to log the session.
> I will do that locally this time, unless someone knows
> how to do a logger bot. We can put the result into
> our events SVN.
I can setup a eggdrop bot to listen in whatever irc channel that you want.
Re: Forrest-lenya instance (was Re: Forrest Tuesday)
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 00:30 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>>David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The wiki worked well for Cocoon. The big advantage is that it is not a
>>>>synchronous medium so it doesn't matter that we will not all be online
>>>>at the same time.
>>>>
>>>>However, I'd rather see Thorsten get a Lenya instance up and we start
>>>>using that, both Thorsten and I are keen to push forward on the Doco
>>>>thing and this could be the first exposure of many devs to Lenya.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes please.
>>
>>I took this to the Lenya list, there is momentum gathering on Doco and
>>as a result Thorsten has stepped forward to create a Lenya instance for
>>us by Sept. 6th. Thanks Thorsten.
>>
>
>
> You are welcome.
>
> http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
>
> Please test a wee bit. ;-)
Logging in as editor for the default publication gave:
Unable to get transformer handler for
cocoon://lenya-page/default/authoring/index.xml?doctype=homepage at
<map:serialize type="xhtml"> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:188:44
at <map:transform> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:174:85
at <map:transform> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:172:152
at <map:generate> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:161:165
at <map:mount> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/global-sitemap.xmap:408:113
at <map:mount> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/sitemap.xmap:523:110
> We can set up a basic lenya pub for us, where we will use the ac and our
> working structure (workflow,...).
>
> We should keep this pub here in our code base. Then we have as well a
> starting point for the doco move and the work of Joachim, David et. al..
If you get this started with an initial commit to our SVN I'll have a
play. I've installed a local copy of Lenya 1.4 so should be able to
experiment with the publicaiton offline, once I have something together
I guess I commit to ourt SVN and you will put it into the Lenya zone -
is that right?
Ross
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>>Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>>>David Crossley wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The wiki worked well for Cocoon. The big advantage is that it is not a
>>>>>synchronous medium so it doesn't matter that we will not all be online
>>>>>at the same time.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, I'd rather see Thorsten get a Lenya instance up and we start
>>>>>using that, both Thorsten and I are keen to push forward on the Doco
>>>>>thing and this could be the first exposure of many devs to Lenya.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes please.
>>>
>>>I took this to the Lenya list, there is momentum gathering on Doco and
>>>as a result Thorsten has stepped forward to create a Lenya instance for
>>>us by Sept. 6th. Thanks Thorsten.
>>
>>You are welcome.
>>
>>http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
>>
>>Please test a wee bit. ;-)
I hope to get time this evening (GMT).
>>We can set up a basic lenya pub for us, where we will use the ac and our
>>working structure (workflow,...).
>>
>>We should keep this pub here in our code base. Then we have as well a
>>starting point for the doco move and the work of Joachim, David et. al..
>>
>>Would it be alright to keep the content of this pub in a jcr-rep?
>
>
> What are the options? Your suggestion sounds good,
> but i don't know what are the implications.
>
> Some repository that is as easy as possible to start with.
> When there are more people involved, we can look at options
> that requirement more management.
I'm not aware of the implications of this either. Ideally we want the
stuff to go into SVN so that people can edit with whatever editors they
want rather than with the Lenya instance. However, I don't think this
works yet so will probably have to be done by us when someone finds the
time.
So, whatever repo makes this the easiest would get my vote.
But since I'm not administering this implementation I'll settle for what
you give us, thanks for your efforts so far.
Ross
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> > > Ross Gardler wrote:
> > >
> > >>The wiki worked well for Cocoon. The big advantage is that it is not a
> > >>synchronous medium so it doesn't matter that we will not all be online
> > >>at the same time.
> > >>
> > >>However, I'd rather see Thorsten get a Lenya instance up and we start
> > >>using that, both Thorsten and I are keen to push forward on the Doco
> > >>thing and this could be the first exposure of many devs to Lenya.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes please.
> >
> > I took this to the Lenya list, there is momentum gathering on Doco and
> > as a result Thorsten has stepped forward to create a Lenya instance for
> > us by Sept. 6th. Thanks Thorsten.
>
> You are welcome.
>
> http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
>
> Please test a wee bit. ;-)
Errors reported.
Thanks for getting it this far, a good start.
> We can set up a basic lenya pub for us, where we will use the ac and our
> working structure (workflow,...).
>
> We should keep this pub here in our code base. Then we have as well a
> starting point for the doco move and the work of Joachim, David et. al..
>
> Would it be alright to keep the content of this pub in a jcr-rep?
What are the options? Your suggestion sounds good,
but i don't know what are the implications.
Some repository that is as easy as possible to start with.
When there are more people involved, we can look at options
that requirement more management.
-David
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 18:42 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > >
> > > For the task at hand, yes. The main reason is to
> > > have a whiteboard to assist us with the XHTML move.
> > >
> > > The secondary reason is to have a Lenya instance
> > > so that later we can enhance our Lenya input plugin.
> > > I don't want to see this first ForrestTuesday turn
> > > into a Lenya-Forrest integration exercise. This is
> > > a good time to kick-start, but we have other priorities.
> >
> > Then we should use the cocoon or lenya wiki. I do not have time for
> > creating pubs for fun. If it should not become a basis for integration
> > then I do not see the point in spending my spare time for it.
>
> Now you are putting words in my mouth. Please see
> point #2 above. I did not say that this Lenya instance
> will not become the basis for our Lenya-Forrest
> integration. Quite the opposite. It is our first
> important step. I only want us to not rush headlong
> into it. Step by step. Please do whatever is easiest
> to get us started.
agree.
>
> > BTW I want to announce that I will lay lower with forrest for a while.
> > There are too many things in my real life happening right now that I
> > need to leverage my time better. I will still be subscribed but only
> > doing work when I can (mostly that will be view related).
>
> Okay, we can only do what we can. I do hope that
> i did not put you off. That was not my intention.
no.
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> >
> > For the task at hand, yes. The main reason is to
> > have a whiteboard to assist us with the XHTML move.
> >
> > The secondary reason is to have a Lenya instance
> > so that later we can enhance our Lenya input plugin.
> > I don't want to see this first ForrestTuesday turn
> > into a Lenya-Forrest integration exercise. This is
> > a good time to kick-start, but we have other priorities.
>
> Then we should use the cocoon or lenya wiki. I do not have time for
> creating pubs for fun. If it should not become a basis for integration
> then I do not see the point in spending my spare time for it.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. Please see
point #2 above. I did not say that this Lenya instance
will not become the basis for our Lenya-Forrest
integration. Quite the opposite. It is our first
important step. I only want us to not rush headlong
into it. Step by step. Please do whatever is easiest
to get us started.
> BTW I want to announce that I will lay lower with forrest for a while.
> There are too many things in my real life happening right now that I
> need to leverage my time better. I will still be subscribed but only
> doing work when I can (mostly that will be view related).
Okay, we can only do what we can. I do hope that
i did not put you off. That was not my intention.
-David
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 13:07 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > > Does that need a publication?
> >
> > Hmm, to be bloody honest with you, my intend is to implement Ross idea
> > of getting forrest devs started with lenya. I personally see too much
> > work and effort that is duplicated (done by both projects) and this as
> > opportunity to get both projects in sync to focus on their core
> > competence. For example our plugins and lenya's modules *are* the same
> > thing (better said addressing the same issue). This is just one example
> > where we (speaking for both project) try to reinvent the wheel that
> > cocoon made round for us, instead of contributing the enhancement of the
> > wheel back to cocoon. ;-)
>
> That paragraph does not sound like a joke, but the smiley
> at the end indicates so. Anyway, i am treating it as serious.
>
> I suggest that we keep developing our plugins here
> at Forrest, and that Lenya keep on with their modules.
>
> When Cocoon has real blocks happening then we will
> all be able to interoperate better. There is no point
> contributing back to Cocoon at this stage. Nor do i see
> reasons for Lenya and Forrest to merge capabilities yet.
> The design of plugins/blocks will change.
>
Please, I am quite tiered that lately many people started to jump on
everything that somebody writes. If you do, make sure that it is not
your *own* interpretation rather then the actual written thought!
Who said or recommended that we should not develop plugins anymore or
lenya their modules? I said to sync the effort!
> We are not reinventing Cocoon's wheel.
that is your personal opinion. I have my own.
> Forrest built
> upon that with the pass-through sitemaps and donated
> that part back. More major changes need to wait for
> real blocks.
>
> > Now BT (back to topic), yes we need our own publication, for now only to
> > clean up the default pub. The default pub is like our "forrest seed"
> > with lots of examples. What we need is something like "forrest
> > seed-basic". A cleanup of all the examples to get started. Then we can
> > go enhance it and extend it for our needs. The "flat directory
> > structure" we will need to define and yes, that is for now just a
> > playground for us and not "yet our Forrest documentation editing
> > environment".
>
> Okay now i understand that we do need a very basic
> "publication". You wondered in another thread whether
> we needed one. I was trying to help make that decision.
> Actually i am surprised that Lenya does not already have
> a very basic publication that we can just use.
>
It is called default pub, like i mentioned. We should use it instead.
> > > > How to we want to handle the user management?
> > > >
> > > > Should I add all forrest committers as reviewer and the devs/user as
> > > > editor. Or should I create one default editor and user? We need to make
> > > > sure that nobody besides us can edit.
> > >
> > > Can you explain a bit more about the difference between
> > > those options?
> >
> > We can add every single committer (to get started) to the ac. That let
> > you log in as e.g. thorsten with pass XxXxX or david with pass YyYyYyY.
> > That allow to track down specific changes by users/editors. I would
> > setup the accounts on demand and notify every single committer about
> > their password that I have choosen or alternatively the committer can
> > send me the pass and I set it up.
> >
> > The alternative is to create a generic user/editor that you and me use
> > with the same pass. Like we have e.g. in the lenya zone. That is quicker
> > to setup and could be easily extended in future. The problem is when it
> > comes to users/devs. I fully trust all the PMC committers to not abuse
> > their given rights, but my mother always told me to be careful about
> > strangers (no offense indented). ;-)
>
> I reckon that we should go with the individual accounts
> so that we know who made changes, and add new accounts
> on demand. Committers can review and put changes into
> production, users/devs can edit. Committers use their
> ASF login IDs and users/devs choose their own name.
>
Since it is an experiment like you said I would be for variant 1 (create
one editor/reviewer).
> > Roadmap:
> > > > - create forrest lenya-based Forrest Tuesday pub.
> >
> > Do we agree on that? I strongly recommend it to set it up in our svn.
>
> I don't see why it needs to be called
> "Forrest Tuesday publication". This whitebaord
> should be used at any time.
I did not give it a name.
>
> If Lenya don't have a basic publication, then we
> can develop it in our SVN and contribute it back.
>
We should use the default pub till the forrest community wants their own
publication.
> > > > - create user
> >
> > see the above mentioned alternatives.
> >
> > > > - create content
> >
> > on the 6th of September.
>
> For the task at hand, yes. The main reason is to
> have a whiteboard to assist us with the XHTML move.
>
> The secondary reason is to have a Lenya instance
> so that later we can enhance our Lenya input plugin.
> I don't want to see this first ForrestTuesday turn
> into a Lenya-Forrest integration exercise. This is
> a good time to kick-start, but we have other priorities.
>
Then we should use the cocoon or lenya wiki. I do not have time for
creating pubs for fun. If it should not become a basis for integration
then I do not see the point in spending my spare time for it.
BTW I want to announce that I will lay lower with forrest for a while.
There are too many things in my real life happening right now that I
need to leverage my time better. I will still be subscribed but only
doing work when I can (mostly that will be view related).
salu2
> -David
>
> > > > - use the brand new lenya plugin to get the content into our docu
> >
> > open ended.
> >
> > salu2
> >
> > thorsten
> >
> > "Together we stand, divided we fall!"
> > Hey you (Pink Floyd)
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> > Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe we should think about a basic structure of *our* lenya pub, this
> > > way I can setup the instance with our structure and get rid of the
> > > sample.
> >
> > We just want a flat directory structure at the moment.
> > This is a "whiteboard" wiki-like thingy for us to
> > experiment with. It is not yet our Forrest documentation
> > editing environment. That is a long way down the track.
> >
> > Does that need a publication?
>
> Hmm, to be bloody honest with you, my intend is to implement Ross idea
> of getting forrest devs started with lenya. I personally see too much
> work and effort that is duplicated (done by both projects) and this as
> opportunity to get both projects in sync to focus on their core
> competence. For example our plugins and lenya's modules *are* the same
> thing (better said addressing the same issue). This is just one example
> where we (speaking for both project) try to reinvent the wheel that
> cocoon made round for us, instead of contributing the enhancement of the
> wheel back to cocoon. ;-)
That paragraph does not sound like a joke, but the smiley
at the end indicates so. Anyway, i am treating it as serious.
I suggest that we keep developing our plugins here
at Forrest, and that Lenya keep on with their modules.
When Cocoon has real blocks happening then we will
all be able to interoperate better. There is no point
contributing back to Cocoon at this stage. Nor do i see
reasons for Lenya and Forrest to merge capabilities yet.
The design of plugins/blocks will change.
We are not reinventing Cocoon's wheel. Forrest built
upon that with the pass-through sitemaps and donated
that part back. More major changes need to wait for
real blocks.
> Now BT (back to topic), yes we need our own publication, for now only to
> clean up the default pub. The default pub is like our "forrest seed"
> with lots of examples. What we need is something like "forrest
> seed-basic". A cleanup of all the examples to get started. Then we can
> go enhance it and extend it for our needs. The "flat directory
> structure" we will need to define and yes, that is for now just a
> playground for us and not "yet our Forrest documentation editing
> environment".
Okay now i understand that we do need a very basic
"publication". You wondered in another thread whether
we needed one. I was trying to help make that decision.
Actually i am surprised that Lenya does not already have
a very basic publication that we can just use.
> > > How to we want to handle the user management?
> > >
> > > Should I add all forrest committers as reviewer and the devs/user as
> > > editor. Or should I create one default editor and user? We need to make
> > > sure that nobody besides us can edit.
> >
> > Can you explain a bit more about the difference between
> > those options?
>
> We can add every single committer (to get started) to the ac. That let
> you log in as e.g. thorsten with pass XxXxX or david with pass YyYyYyY.
> That allow to track down specific changes by users/editors. I would
> setup the accounts on demand and notify every single committer about
> their password that I have choosen or alternatively the committer can
> send me the pass and I set it up.
>
> The alternative is to create a generic user/editor that you and me use
> with the same pass. Like we have e.g. in the lenya zone. That is quicker
> to setup and could be easily extended in future. The problem is when it
> comes to users/devs. I fully trust all the PMC committers to not abuse
> their given rights, but my mother always told me to be careful about
> strangers (no offense indented). ;-)
I reckon that we should go with the individual accounts
so that we know who made changes, and add new accounts
on demand. Committers can review and put changes into
production, users/devs can edit. Committers use their
ASF login IDs and users/devs choose their own name.
> Roadmap:
> > > - create forrest lenya-based Forrest Tuesday pub.
>
> Do we agree on that? I strongly recommend it to set it up in our svn.
I don't see why it needs to be called
"Forrest Tuesday publication". This whitebaord
should be used at any time.
If Lenya don't have a basic publication, then we
can develop it in our SVN and contribute it back.
> > > - create user
>
> see the above mentioned alternatives.
>
> > > - create content
>
> on the 6th of September.
For the task at hand, yes. The main reason is to
have a whiteboard to assist us with the XHTML move.
The secondary reason is to have a Lenya instance
so that later we can enhance our Lenya input plugin.
I don't want to see this first ForrestTuesday turn
into a Lenya-Forrest integration exercise. This is
a good time to kick-start, but we have other priorities.
-David
> > > - use the brand new lenya plugin to get the content into our docu
>
> open ended.
>
> salu2
>
> thorsten
>
> "Together we stand, divided we fall!"
> Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 2005-09-01 at 17:55 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> >
> > Maybe we should think about a basic structure of *our* lenya pub, this
> > way I can setup the instance with our structure and get rid of the
> > sample.
>
> We just want a flat directory structure at the moment.
> This is a "whiteboard" wiki-like thingy for us to
> experiment with. It is not yet our Forrest documentation
> editing environment. That is a long way down the track.
>
> Does that need a publication?
>
Hmm, to be bloody honest with you, my intend is to implement Ross idea
of getting forrest devs started with lenya. I personally see too much
work and effort that is duplicated (done by both projects) and this as
opportunity to get both projects in sync to focus on their core
competence. For example our plugins and lenya's modules *are* the same
thing (better said addressing the same issue). This is just one example
where we (speaking for both project) try to reinvent the wheel that
cocoon made round for us, instead of contributing the enhancement of the
wheel back to cocoon. ;-)
Now BT (back to topic), yes we need our own publication, for now only to
clean up the default pub. The default pub is like our "forrest seed"
with lots of examples. What we need is something like "forrest
seed-basic". A cleanup of all the examples to get started. Then we can
go enhance it and extend it for our needs. The "flat directory
structure" we will need to define and yes, that is for now just a
playground for us and not "yet our Forrest documentation editing
environment".
> > How to we want to handle the user management?
> >
> > Should I add all forrest committers as reviewer and the devs/user as
> > editor. Or should I create one default editor and user? We need to make
> > sure that nobody besides us can edit.
>
> Can you explain a bit more about the difference between
> those options?
>
We can add every single committer (to get started) to the ac. That let
you log in as e.g. thorsten with pass XxXxX or david with pass YyYyYyY.
That allow to track down specific changes by users/editors. I would
setup the accounts on demand and notify every single committer about
their password that I have choosen or alternatively the committer can
send me the pass and I set it up.
The alternative is to create a generic user/editor that you and me use
with the same pass. Like we have e.g. in the lenya zone. That is quicker
to setup and could be easily extended in future. The problem is when it
comes to users/devs. I fully trust all the PMC committers to not abuse
their given rights, but my mother always told me to be careful about
strangers (no offense indented). ;-)
Roadmap:
> > - create forrest lenya-based Forrest Tuesday pub.
Do we agree on that? I strongly recommend it to set it up in our svn.
> > - create user
see the above mentioned alternatives.
> > - create content
on the 6th of September.
> > - use the brand new lenya plugin to get the content into our docu
open ended.
salu2
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
> Maybe we should think about a basic structure of *our* lenya pub, this
> way I can setup the instance with our structure and get rid of the
> sample.
We just want a flat directory structure at the moment.
This is a "whiteboard" wiki-like thingy for us to
experiment with. It is not yet our Forrest documentation
editing environment. That is a long way down the track.
Does that need a publication?
> How to we want to handle the user management?
>
> Should I add all forrest committers as reviewer and the devs/user as
> editor. Or should I create one default editor and user? We need to make
> sure that nobody besides us can edit.
Can you explain a bit more about the difference between
those options?
-David
> Next steps:
> - create forrest lenya-based Forrest Tuesday pub.
> - create user
> - create content
> - use the brand new lenya plugin to get the content into our docu
> - ...
>
> salu2
> --
> thorsten
>
> "Together we stand, divided we fall!"
> Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:22 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > Sorry,
> >
> > somebody killed *all* our demos. :(
> >
>
> Wohoo!!!!
>
> I'm in and edited a page!!!
>
> Thanks for your persistence Thorsten.
>
to you. ;-) You help me heaps in reporting in, without it would not have
been possible! Thanks ross
> I'll have a proper play soon (before the 6th) but I have a deadline at
> present I'm afraid.
>
No worries.
Maybe we should think about a basic structure of *our* lenya pub, this
way I can setup the instance with our structure and get rid of the
sample.
How to we want to handle the user management?
Should I add all forrest committers as reviewer and the devs/user as
editor. Or should I create one default editor and user? We need to make
sure that nobody besides us can edit.
Next steps:
- create forrest lenya-based Forrest Tuesday pub.
- create user
- create content
- use the brand new lenya plugin to get the content into our docu
- ...
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Sorry,
>
> somebody killed *all* our demos. :(
>
Wohoo!!!!
I'm in and edited a page!!!
Thanks for your persistence Thorsten.
I'll have a proper play soon (before the 6th) but I have a deadline at
present I'm afraid.
Ross
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
Sorry,
somebody killed *all* our demos. :(
I do not know who or why.
I will monitor it.
salu2
On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 10:21 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 09:48 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> >
>
> ...
>
> >
> > Actually it was a bug.
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=lenya-dev&m=112547515906513&w=2
> >
> > I hope this time you can test for real, thanks to andreas:
> > http://lenya.zones.apache.org:9000/index.html
> >
> > When I was debugging I changed the port. ;-)
>
> Connection refused :-((
>
> Ross
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 09:48 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
>
...
>
> Actually it was a bug.
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=lenya-dev&m=112547515906513&w=2
>
> I hope this time you can test for real, thanks to andreas:
> http://lenya.zones.apache.org:9000/index.html
>
> When I was debugging I changed the port. ;-)
Connection refused :-((
Ross
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 09:48 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> >
> > That is really weird. It seems to me that is a solaris bug. I am really
> > sorry for all the noise.
> >
> > I tested it before and it was working fine. My other problem with this
> > bug is that is only happening on zones. My local instance is working
> > like a charm.
>
> Is it a difference in Java versions?
>
Actually it was a bug.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=lenya-dev&m=112547515906513&w=2
I hope this time you can test for real, thanks to andreas:
http://lenya.zones.apache.org:9000/index.html
When I was debugging I changed the port. ;-)
salu2
thorsten
> -David
>
> > That makes it really hard to debug (I do not have solaris anywhere). :(
> >
> > salu2
> > --
> > thorsten
> >
> > "Together we stand, divided we fall!"
> > Hey you (Pink Floyd)
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
> That is really weird. It seems to me that is a solaris bug. I am really
> sorry for all the noise.
>
> I tested it before and it was working fine. My other problem with this
> bug is that is only happening on zones. My local instance is working
> like a charm.
Is it a difference in Java versions?
-David
> That makes it really hard to debug (I do not have solaris anywhere). :(
>
> salu2
> --
> thorsten
>
> "Together we stand, divided we fall!"
> Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by "Gav...." <br...@brightontown.com.au>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thorsten Scherler" <th...@apache.org>
|
| That makes it really hard to debug (I do not have solaris anywhere). :(
|
| salu2
| --
| thorsten
FYI, not sure if you have the resources (or inclination) but Solaris 10 is
available as a free download from Sun and I've seen it on Cover Cds also,
available for the x86 platform and will dual boot with linux or windows if
required.
Gav...
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/2005
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 13:55 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> I still get the same problem when logging in as an editor:
>
> Unable to get transformer handler for
> cocoon://lenya-page/default/authoring/index.xml?doctype=homepage at
> <map:serialize type="xhtml"> -
> file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:188:44
> at <map:transform> -
> file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:174:85
> at <map:transform> -
> file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:172:152
> at <map:generate> -
> file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:161:165
> at <map:mount> -
> file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/global-sitemap.xmap:408:113
> at <map:mount> -
> file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/sitemap.xmap:550:110
>
> Ross
Thanks.
That is really weird. It seems to me that is a solaris bug. I am really
sorry for all the noise.
I tested it before and it was working fine. My other problem with this
bug is that is only happening on zones. My local instance is working
like a charm.
That makes it really hard to debug (I do not have solaris anywhere). :(
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 20:26 +0200, Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 16:13 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
>>>>
>>>>Please test a wee bit. ;-)
>>>
>>>I did login as editor okay, but File->New-xhtml
>>>failed the first time, second time was okay.
>>>Then the create action failed.
>>>
>>>The new Cocoon error reporting is excellent.
>>
>>:) yeah
>>
>>I do not understand why that is happening but I have actually the same
>>problem on my local drive.
>>
>>Will need to investigate it. Cheers for the report.
>
>
> I just removed everything (lenya and cocoon) and did fresh checkout. Now
> it seems to work again.
>
> Please feel free to test again.
I still get the same problem when logging in as an editor:
Unable to get transformer handler for
cocoon://lenya-page/default/authoring/index.xml?doctype=homepage at
<map:serialize type="xhtml"> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:188:44
at <map:transform> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:174:85
at <map:transform> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:172:152
at <map:generate> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/lenya/pubs/default/sitemap.xmap:161:165
at <map:mount> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/global-sitemap.xmap:408:113
at <map:mount> -
file:/export/home/lenya/src/lenya-1.4.x-forrest/build/lenya/webapp/sitemap.xmap:550:110
Ross
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 20:26 +0200, Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 16:13 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> > Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > >
> > > http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
> > >
> > > Please test a wee bit. ;-)
> >
> > I did login as editor okay, but File->New-xhtml
> > failed the first time, second time was okay.
> > Then the create action failed.
> >
> > The new Cocoon error reporting is excellent.
>
> :) yeah
>
> I do not understand why that is happening but I have actually the same
> problem on my local drive.
>
> Will need to investigate it. Cheers for the report.
I just removed everything (lenya and cocoon) and did fresh checkout. Now
it seems to work again.
Please feel free to test again.
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 16:13 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> >
> > http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
> >
> > Please test a wee bit. ;-)
>
> I did login as editor okay, but File->New-xhtml
> failed the first time, second time was okay.
> Then the create action failed.
>
> The new Cocoon error reporting is excellent.
:) yeah
I do not understand why that is happening but I have actually the same
problem on my local drive.
Will need to investigate it. Cheers for the report.
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest-lenya instance
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
> http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
>
> Please test a wee bit. ;-)
I did login as editor okay, but File->New-xhtml
failed the first time, second time was okay.
Then the create action failed.
The new Cocoon error reporting is excellent.
-David
Forrest-lenya instance (was Re: Forrest Tuesday)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 00:30 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> > Ross Gardler wrote:
> >
> >>The wiki worked well for Cocoon. The big advantage is that it is not a
> >>synchronous medium so it doesn't matter that we will not all be online
> >>at the same time.
> >>
> >>However, I'd rather see Thorsten get a Lenya instance up and we start
> >>using that, both Thorsten and I are keen to push forward on the Doco
> >>thing and this could be the first exposure of many devs to Lenya.
> >
> >
> > Yes please.
>
> I took this to the Lenya list, there is momentum gathering on Doco and
> as a result Thorsten has stepped forward to create a Lenya instance for
> us by Sept. 6th. Thanks Thorsten.
>
You are welcome.
http://lenya.zones.apache.org:19999/index.html
Please test a wee bit. ;-)
We can set up a basic lenya pub for us, where we will use the ac and our
working structure (workflow,...).
We should keep this pub here in our code base. Then we have as well a
starting point for the doco move and the work of Joachim, David et. al..
Would it be alright to keep the content of this pub in a jcr-rep?
wdyt?
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: Forrest Tuesday
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>>The wiki worked well for Cocoon. The big advantage is that it is not a
>>synchronous medium so it doesn't matter that we will not all be online
>>at the same time.
>>
>>However, I'd rather see Thorsten get a Lenya instance up and we start
>>using that, both Thorsten and I are keen to push forward on the Doco
>>thing and this could be the first exposure of many devs to Lenya.
>
>
> Yes please.
I took this to the Lenya list, there is momentum gathering on Doco and
as a result Thorsten has stepped forward to create a Lenya instance for
us by Sept. 6th. Thanks Thorsten.
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >A lot can be done
> >by a rotating team, though we are a bit thin in
> >the antipodes.
>
> So you'll be the one staying up all night then ;-)
Hey it is 24 hours, so you can all stay up all night too :-)
-David
Re: Forrest Tuesday
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> A lot can be done
> by a rotating team, though we are a bit thin in
> the antipodes.
So you'll be the one staying up all night then ;-)
Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> The wiki worked well for Cocoon. The big advantage is that it is not a
> synchronous medium so it doesn't matter that we will not all be online
> at the same time.
>
> However, I'd rather see Thorsten get a Lenya instance up and we start
> using that, both Thorsten and I are keen to push forward on the Doco
> thing and this could be the first exposure of many devs to Lenya.
Yes please.
> >In our earlier discussions, we agreed that we don't
> >want to have the channel as a permanent means of
> >communication. So i looked into how to restrict it.
> >Just start a new channel at the beginning of the
> >day with name like for-09 and it will close when
> >the last one of us leaves at the end of the 24 hours.
> >Simple.
>
> I assume this para refers to IRC.
Yes.
> An alternative is Skype. Much higher bandwidth communications. VSkype
> allows up to 200 participants and enables the sharing of a desktop image.
>
> However, can we record the audio for this? Is it as useful after the
> event because it won't be logged? Would we be in danger of making it
> more aceptable as a communications medium since it can't be disabled
> like an IRC channel?
I reckon start with IRC. Get into the habit, then
look at how other tools could assist.
> >So the first "Forrest Tuesday" would be 6 September.
> >
> >>Lets remind ourselves that we are not talking about being available for
> >>the whole 24 hours, or even every bug day. We are simply trying to
> >>identify the day that would be most likely to see us being able provide
> >>*some* time during the 24 hours in *some* months.
> >
> >
> >Unless you get excited and stay up all night.
> >I remember that Antonio and i did that on one
> >Cocoon First Friday.
>
> :-))
>
> >Each meeting could either just concentrate on getting Jira
> >under control or have a special topic like a group effort
> >to move the core to use xhtml2.
>
> OOOhhh that's a hard one. Getting Jira under control is more important.
> But doing XHTML2 is more fun!
They are both equally important. A lot can be done
by a rotating team, though we are a bit thin in
the antipodes.
-David
> >Also it is a place for us to get to know each
> >other a little.
>
> +10000
>
> See you all Sept. 6th
>
> Ross
Re: Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for
Forrest))
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>>Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote:
>>
>>>David Crossley a ?crit :
>>>
>>>>David Crossley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
>>>>>There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
>>>>>good view of our situation.
>>>>
>>>>The remainder of this old thread led to a bit of a cleanup.
>>>>
>>>>It also led to a brilliant idea about a regular bug day
>>>>which we should instigate soon.
>>>
>>>When will we decide the regular bug day ?
>>
>>Are you volunteering to organise it? I do hope so ;-)
>
>
> More surprises for Cyrique's return.
> I have started to investigate what is involved.
WooHoo!!!
Thanks David.
> We can use the Cocoon wiki if we need to have
> a whiteboard for the day. Or does someone have
> better ideas on collaborative techniques.
The wiki worked well for Cocoon. The big advantage is that it is not a
synchronous medium so it doesn't matter that we will not all be online
at the same time.
However, I'd rather see Thorsten get a Lenya instance up and we start
using that, both Thorsten and I are keen to push forward on the Doco
thing and this could be the first exposure of many devs to Lenya.
> In our earlier discussions, we agreed that we don't
> want to have the channel as a permanent means of
> communication. So i looked into how to restrict it.
> Just start a new channel at the beginning of the
> day with name like for-09 and it will close when
> the last one of us leaves at the end of the 24 hours.
> Simple.
I assume this para refers to IRC.
An alternative is Skype. Much higher bandwidth communications. VSkype
allows up to 200 participants and enables the sharing of a desktop image.
However, can we record the audio for this? Is it as useful after the
event because it won't be logged? Would we be in danger of making it
more aceptable as a communications medium since it can't be disabled
like an IRC channel?
> So the first "Forrest Tuesday" would be 6 September.
>
>
>>Lets remind ourselves that we are not talking about being available for
>>the whole 24 hours, or even every bug day. We are simply trying to
>>identify the day that would be most likely to see us being able provide
>>*some* time during the 24 hours in *some* months.
>
>
> Unless you get excited and stay up all night.
> I remember that Antonio and i did that on one
> Cocoon First Friday.
:-))
> Each meeting could either just concentrate on getting Jira
> under control or have a special topic like a group effort
> to move the core to use xhtml2.
OOOhhh that's a hard one. Getting Jira under control is more important.
But doing XHTML2 is more fun!
> Also it is a place for us to get to know each
> other a little.
+10000
See you all Sept. 6th
Ross
Forrest Tuesday (Was: Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest))
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote:
> >David Crossley a ?crit :
> >>David Crossley wrote:
> >>>We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
> >>>There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
> >>>good view of our situation.
> >>
> >>The remainder of this old thread led to a bit of a cleanup.
> >>
> >>It also led to a brilliant idea about a regular bug day
> >>which we should instigate soon.
> >
> >When will we decide the regular bug day ?
>
> Are you volunteering to organise it? I do hope so ;-)
More surprises for Cyrique's return.
I have started to investigate what is involved.
> Cocoon do this fairly regularly and so we could just borrow their
> techniques see
> http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FirstFriday
They used to. It went quiet for a while.
Hope that it is back now, it was great.
> There isn't much to be done, just remind the dev and user list when it
> will occur a few times before the event.
>
> We'd need the infrastructure to work with, such as wiki page, IRC
> channel but this is a simple one-off set up. I would think Cocoon will
> be happy for us to use their Wiki since we don't have one.
>
> We'd also need someone to craft a mail/wiki page telling us all how to
> participate.
I would rather use a document at forrest.a.o/ => Project.
That how-to-participate information doesn't change much.
We can use the Cocoon wiki if we need to have
a whiteboard for the day. Or does someone have
better ideas on collaborative techniques.
In our earlier discussions, we agreed that we don't
want to have the channel as a permanent means of
communication. So i looked into how to restrict it.
Just start a new channel at the beginning of the
day with name like for-09 and it will close when
the last one of us leaves at the end of the 24 hours.
Simple.
The other thing that we need to do is to log the session.
I will do that locally this time, unless someone knows
how to do a logger bot. We can put the result into
our events SVN.
> With repsect to when, I agree with Davids comments that the first
> something in a month is easy to remember. I agree Modays is bad for the
> same reasons (back to work overhead).
>
> I would suggest Friday is bad because some of Friday UTC is Saturday
> elsewhere in the world and since I don't want to "work" on Saturday's
> I'm guessing others will feel the same way. However, since I am in GMT
> this doesn't affect me so I won't object to a Friday if that is what
> others want.
>
> I'd be fine with:
>
> First Tuesday
> First Wednesday
> First Thursday
>
> I have a slight preference for Tuesdays.
So the first "Forrest Tuesday" would be 6 September.
> Lets remind ourselves that we are not talking about being available for
> the whole 24 hours, or even every bug day. We are simply trying to
> identify the day that would be most likely to see us being able provide
> *some* time during the 24 hours in *some* months.
Unless you get excited and stay up all night.
I remember that Antonio and i did that on one
Cocoon First Friday.
> As with all things Open Source no-one *expects* others to be present on
> Bug Days, we just hope to see you.
Looking forward to it. Two and half weeks away.
Each meeting could either just concentrate on getting Jira
under control or have a special topic like a group effort
to move the core to use xhtml2.
Also it is a place for us to get to know each
other a little.
-David
Bug Days (Was Re: better use of Jira for Forrest)
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote:
> David Crossley a écrit :
>
>> David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>
>>> We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
>>> There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
>>> good view of our situation.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The remainder of this old thread led to a bit of a cleanup.
>>
>> It also led to a brilliant idea about a regular bug day
>> which we should instigate soon.
>>
>>
> When will we decide the regular bug day ?
Are you volunteering to organise it? I do hope so ;-)
Cocoon do this fairly regularly and so we could just borrow their
techniques see
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FirstFriday?highlight=%28friday%29%7C%28first%29
There isn't much to be done, just remind the dev and user list when it
will occur a few times before the event.
We'd need the infrastructure to work with, such as wiki page, IRC
channel but this is a simple one-off set up. I would think Cocoon will
be happy for us to use their Wiki since we don't have one.
We'd also need someone to craft a mail/wiki page telling us all how to
participate.
With repsect to when, I agree with Davids comments that the first
something in a month is easy to remember. I agree Modays is bad for the
same reasons (back to work overhead).
I would suggest Friday is bad because some of Friday UTC is Saturday
elsewhere in the world and since I don't want to "work" on Saturday's
I'm guessing others will feel the same way. However, since I am in GMT
this doesn't affect me so I won't object to a Friday if that is what
others want.
I'd be fine with:
First Tuesday
First Wednesday
First Thursday
I have a slight preference for Tuesdays.
Lets remind ourselves that we are not talking about being available for
the whole 24 hours, or even every bug day. We are simply trying to
identify the day that would be most likely to see us being able provide
*some* time during the 24 hours in *some* months.
As with all things Open Source no-one *expects* others to be present on
Bug Days, we just hope to see you.
Ross
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Cyriaque Dupoirieux <Cy...@pcotech.fr>.
David Crossley a écrit :
>David Crossley wrote:
>
>
>>We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
>>There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
>>good view of our situation.
>>
>>
>
>The remainder of this old thread led to a bit of a cleanup.
>
>It also led to a brilliant idea about a regular bug day
>which we should instigate soon.
>
>
When will we decide the regular bug day ?
Cyriaque,
>The other thing that we need to do is to continually
>review our issues, especially the ones that are scheduled
>for the coming 0.7 release. We can also assess them and
>perhaps move some to the 0.8 version.
>
>All Forrest committers have the Jira permissions to schedule
>issues, change priorities, edit issue names and descriptions,
>delete comments.
>
>Today i added both new committers, so if you feel like
>helping then do, otherwise get on with whatever causes
>you to itch.
>
>The rest of the people out in Forrest developer land,
>please help to comment on issues and test the current
>SVN version 0.7-dev. This will all help to get us closer
>to release day.
>
>--David
>
>
>
>
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> I also adopted that screen for Forrest. Try adding or
> editing an issue to see the new layout.
These are great improvements - thanks David.
Ross
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
The last couple of days some Cocoon people have been
helping to better configure Jira.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=113347976400005
The Cocoon issue entry/edit screen has been enhanced
with better prompts to explain each field.
I also adopted that screen for Forrest. Try adding or
editing an issue to see the new layout.
We lost the field called "Environment". I will add
that back if people mourn its loss. It was not being
used by the Cocoon screen but was used by the default
screen. Try browsing another project to see it.
We added a new custom field "Urgency" as discussed
in the above threads.
We added a new custom field "Other info".
This is a multi-checkbox field. At the moment only
one checkbox: "Patch available".
There are some new Filters for Forrest too ...
FOR-open-with-patch
FOR-unscheduled
FOR-urgency-blocker
FOR-urgency-urgent
Of course these will not do much yet. We need to
review our issues and add the data. After we have them
working we can cause some of the filters to send email
to forrest-dev once per week.
-David
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
> There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
> good view of our situation.
The remainder of this old thread led to a bit of a cleanup.
It also led to a brilliant idea about a regular bug day
which we should instigate soon.
The other thing that we need to do is to continually
review our issues, especially the ones that are scheduled
for the coming 0.7 release. We can also assess them and
perhaps move some to the 0.8 version.
All Forrest committers have the Jira permissions to schedule
issues, change priorities, edit issue names and descriptions,
delete comments.
Today i added both new committers, so if you feel like
helping then do, otherwise get on with whatever causes
you to itch.
The rest of the people out in Forrest developer land,
please help to comment on issues and test the current
SVN version 0.7-dev. This will all help to get us closer
to release day.
--David
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Dave Brondsema wrote:
> Quoting Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>:
> > Dave Brondsema wrote:
> > > Quoting David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Done. That clarifies the Roadmap.
> > >>
> > >>Do any people out in the Forrest dev community
> > >>know other things that we can do to improve our use
> > >>of Jira? Or point to projects that use it well.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Many projects periodically do a "bug day" where everyone spends time
> > > investigating, updating and resolving issues. This could be useful for us
> >
> > > because it seems that a lot of our issues are very old and/or incomplete.
> >
> > > There are also minor issues that very few people care about (maybe nobody
> > > anymore) which are not worth spending time on.
> > >
> > > The problem, of course, would be to coordinate such a day, especially given
> >
> > > our geographical spread. It doesn't have to be simultaneous work, though.
> > We
> > > could even do a week of bug-squashing.
> > >
> >
> > I would (time allowing - that's a coordination issue) participate in any
> > such activity. I'd like to propose something slightly different though.
> > My motivation for the slight variation is that we are, as you say, a
> > small number of developers with a wide distribution across the time
> > zones. Lets use the distribution to our advantage and try and use this
> > time to bring in some more developers.
> >
> > There are a number of folk who have recently started to explore the
> > inner workings of Forrest. I doubt that they have much inclination for
> > fixing outstanding bugs - where's the fun in working out how something
> > works to fix a bug that isn't affecting them. I am sure they are more
> > interested in doing cool new things.
> >
> > If we can find a way to coordinate things so that there will be at least
> > one core developer available via some kind of chat mechanism (instant
> > message or even voice, via Skype) then that developer would be available
> > to to guide people in fixing bugs and would be able immediately commit
> > the patches.
> >
> > We might therefore be able to attract some other developers.
> >
> > I'm up for whatever we decide is best.
>
> Most groups use an irc channel for communication. For us, we could use
> irc.freenode.net#forrest
Great idea Dave. We started something like this at Cocoon and it worked
very well for a while. The interest has waned lately though - not sure why.
We called it FirstFriday ... the first Friday of every month we did bug
squashing via irc.freenode.net#cocoon and dev@cocoon.a.o
It lasted for one full day from 09:00 UTC for 24 hours, giving everyone
a chance to be involved. This actually took advantage of the geographic
distribution to continuously work on some complex things.
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/FirstFriday
We should carefully choose the start time and the day.
We need to bear in mind the ASF principle, that all decisions
must be made on a mailing list. It is hard to balance this with
working on IRC.
> Yes, we should involve end-users by asking them to help with their particular
> bugs of interest.
It should be an excellent way for other Forrest developers to
become more involved.
--David
> Some more info about bug days:
> http://www.mozillazine.org/articles/article2151.html
> http://www.python.org/moin/PythonBugDay
> http://developer.gnome.org/projects/bugsquad/triage/
>
> --
> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
> http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
Quoting Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>:
> Dave Brondsema wrote:
> > Quoting David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>:
> >
> >
> >>Done. That clarifies the Roadmap.
> >>
> >>Do any people out in the Forrest dev community
> >>know other things that we can do to improve our use
> >>of Jira? Or point to projects that use it well.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Many projects periodically do a "bug day" where everyone spends time
> > investigating, updating and resolving issues. This could be useful for us
>
> > because it seems that a lot of our issues are very old and/or incomplete.
>
> > There are also minor issues that very few people care about (maybe nobody
> > anymore) which are not worth spending time on.
> >
> > The problem, of course, would be to coordinate such a day, especially given
>
> > our geographical spread. It doesn't have to be simultaneous work, though.
> We
> > could even do a week of bug-squashing.
> >
>
> I would (time allowing - that's a coordination issue) participate in any
> such activity. I'd like to propose something slightly different though.
> My motivation for the slight variation is that we are, as you say, a
> small number of developers with a wide distribution across the time
> zones. Lets use the distribution to our advantage and try and use this
> time to bring in some more developers.
>
> There are a number of folk who have recently started to explore the
> inner workings of Forrest. I doubt that they have much inclination for
> fixing outstanding bugs - where's the fun in working out how something
> works to fix a bug that isn't affecting them. I am sure they are more
> interested in doing cool new things.
>
> If we can find a way to coordinate things so that there will be at least
> one core developer available via some kind of chat mechanism (instant
> message or even voice, via Skype) then that developer would be available
> to to guide people in fixing bugs and would be able immediately commit
> the patches.
>
> We might therefore be able to attract some other developers.
>
> I'm up for whatever we decide is best.
>
Most groups use an irc channel for communication. For us, we could use
irc.freenode.net#forrest
Yes, we should involve end-users by asking them to help with their particular
bugs of interest.
Some more info about bug days:
http://www.mozillazine.org/articles/article2151.html
http://www.python.org/moin/PythonBugDay
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/bugsquad/triage/
--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Dave Brondsema wrote:
> Quoting David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>:
>
>
>>Done. That clarifies the Roadmap.
>>
>>Do any people out in the Forrest dev community
>>know other things that we can do to improve our use
>>of Jira? Or point to projects that use it well.
>>
>
>
> Many projects periodically do a "bug day" where everyone spends time
> investigating, updating and resolving issues. This could be useful for us
> because it seems that a lot of our issues are very old and/or incomplete.
> There are also minor issues that very few people care about (maybe nobody
> anymore) which are not worth spending time on.
>
> The problem, of course, would be to coordinate such a day, especially given
> our geographical spread. It doesn't have to be simultaneous work, though. We
> could even do a week of bug-squashing.
>
I would (time allowing - that's a coordination issue) participate in any
such activity. I'd like to propose something slightly different though.
My motivation for the slight variation is that we are, as you say, a
small number of developers with a wide distribution across the time
zones. Lets use the distribution to our advantage and try and use this
time to bring in some more developers.
There are a number of folk who have recently started to explore the
inner workings of Forrest. I doubt that they have much inclination for
fixing outstanding bugs - where's the fun in working out how something
works to fix a bug that isn't affecting them. I am sure they are more
interested in doing cool new things.
If we can find a way to coordinate things so that there will be at least
one core developer available via some kind of chat mechanism (instant
message or even voice, via Skype) then that developer would be available
to to guide people in fixing bugs and would be able immediately commit
the patches.
We might therefore be able to attract some other developers.
I'm up for whatever we decide is best.
Ross
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
Quoting David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>:
> Done. That clarifies the Roadmap.
>
> Do any people out in the Forrest dev community
> know other things that we can do to improve our use
> of Jira? Or point to projects that use it well.
>
Many projects periodically do a "bug day" where everyone spends time
investigating, updating and resolving issues. This could be useful for us
because it seems that a lot of our issues are very old and/or incomplete.
There are also minor issues that very few people care about (maybe nobody
anymore) which are not worth spending time on.
The problem, of course, would be to coordinate such a day, especially given
our geographical spread. It doesn't have to be simultaneous work, though. We
could even do a week of bug-squashing.
--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Done. That clarifies the Roadmap.
Do any people out in the Forrest dev community
know other things that we can do to improve our use
of Jira? Or point to projects that use it well.
--David
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>>David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>What i am proposing now is an extra step. Remove the option
>>>"HEAD version" entirely from Jira. I think it is superfluous.
>>
>>Sorry - I'm reading too fast this morning.
>>
>>If a bug is introduced into head (i.e. wasn't in the previous release)
>>where would it go? The next release due I suppose.
>>
>>Seems fine to me.
>
>
> Yes, that is what i meant.
>
>
>>Would it be worth naming the next release 0.8-dev and then renaming to
>>0.8 when it is released? (not sure if Jira allows this, I assume it does).
>
>
> Yes, that avoids all confusion. Good idea.
>
> I just tested by moving 0.7 to 0.7-dev ... hooray.
>
> I will do that over the weekend unless someone stops me.
>
> --David
>
+1 Good ideas, guys.
--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.splike.com : programming
http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >What i am proposing now is an extra step. Remove the option
> >"HEAD version" entirely from Jira. I think it is superfluous.
>
> Sorry - I'm reading too fast this morning.
>
> If a bug is introduced into head (i.e. wasn't in the previous release)
> where would it go? The next release due I suppose.
>
> Seems fine to me.
Yes, that is what i meant.
> Would it be worth naming the next release 0.8-dev and then renaming to
> 0.8 when it is released? (not sure if Jira allows this, I assume it does).
Yes, that avoids all confusion. Good idea.
I just tested by moving 0.7 to 0.7-dev ... hooray.
I will do that over the weekend unless someone stops me.
--David
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>>David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
>>>There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
>>>good view of our situation.
>>>
>>>We recently defined a stack categories. That helps to provide
>>>other ways to browse the outstanding issues.
>>>
>>>Today i removed the 0.6.1 release version. That helps with the
>>>Roadmap because now we can see the 0.8 issues too.
>>>
>>>That Roadmap shows a stack of issues marked as occuring against
>>>HEAD version and then another stack against 0.7 version.
>>>
>>>Should all the 0.7 ones be moved to HEAD, or the other way around,
>>>should all HEAD issues be moved to 0.7 version?
>>>
>>>I reckon the latter, move HEAD to 0.7 version. Then we should
>>>remove "HEAD version" as an option in Jira.
>>>
>>>What do others reckon?
>>
>>+1 - this seems to have the most meaning when we have 0.7 out the door.
>>Perhaps this should be part of the release process. Everything marked as
>>head during the code freeze should be moved to the upcoming release.
>
>
> Yeah that is what i did last release.
>
> What i am proposing now is an extra step. Remove the option
> "HEAD version" entirely from Jira. I think it is superfluous.
Sorry - I'm reading too fast this morning.
If a bug is introduced into head (i.e. wasn't in the previous release)
where would it go? The next release due I suppose.
Seems fine to me.
Would it be worth naming the next release 0.8-dev and then renaming to
0.8 when it is released? (not sure if Jira allows this, I assume it does).
Ross
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
> >There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
> >good view of our situation.
> >
> >We recently defined a stack categories. That helps to provide
> >other ways to browse the outstanding issues.
> >
> >Today i removed the 0.6.1 release version. That helps with the
> >Roadmap because now we can see the 0.8 issues too.
> >
> >That Roadmap shows a stack of issues marked as occuring against
> >HEAD version and then another stack against 0.7 version.
> >
> >Should all the 0.7 ones be moved to HEAD, or the other way around,
> >should all HEAD issues be moved to 0.7 version?
> >
> >I reckon the latter, move HEAD to 0.7 version. Then we should
> >remove "HEAD version" as an option in Jira.
> >
> >What do others reckon?
>
> +1 - this seems to have the most meaning when we have 0.7 out the door.
> Perhaps this should be part of the release process. Everything marked as
> head during the code freeze should be moved to the upcoming release.
Yeah that is what i did last release.
What i am proposing now is an extra step. Remove the option
"HEAD version" entirely from Jira. I think it is superfluous.
--David
Re: better use of Jira for Forrest
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> We need to be continually cleaning up our Jira issue tracker.
> There is a lot of clutter and it means that we cannot have a
> good view of our situation.
>
> We recently defined a stack categories. That helps to provide
> other ways to browse the outstanding issues.
>
> Today i removed the 0.6.1 release version. That helps with the
> Roadmap because now we can see the 0.8 issues too.
>
> That Roadmap shows a stack of issues marked as occuring against
> HEAD version and then another stack against 0.7 version.
>
> Should all the 0.7 ones be moved to HEAD, or the other way around,
> should all HEAD issues be moved to 0.7 version?
>
> I reckon the latter, move HEAD to 0.7 version. Then we should
> remove "HEAD version" as an option in Jira.
>
> What do others reckon?
+1 - this seems to have the most meaning when we have 0.7 out the door.
Perhaps this should be part of the release process. Everything marked as
head during the code freeze should be moved to the upcoming release.
Ross