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Posted to dev@reef.apache.org by Mariia Mykhailova <ma...@microsoft.com> on 2016/10/05 20:07:14 UTC
Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Hi,
We've added support for building REEF.NET in VS2015 half a year ago. Originally we intended for it to replace VS2013, but since we've found a way to support building REEF in both VS2013 and VS2015 we allowed the two to coexist peacefully.
I feel that support for both VS2015 and VS2013 is inconvenient in the long term. We can't benefit from new features in C# 6 and .NET 4.6 as long as we must provide compatibility with old runtime.
Let's discuss whether it's possible to drop support for VS2013 and what work is required.
- We need to make sure all clusters which run REEF-based jobs have .NET 4.6 framework installed.
- Our build tools need to be updated to support C# 6. For example, StyleCop treats some C# 6 features as violations even when building with VS2015.
We should also create an AppVeyor flavor that would run CI using VS2013 to ensure this compatibility while we need it. Right now our CI doesn't detect build failures in VS2013.
-Mariia
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com>.
Yes. It should be possible.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de> wrote:
> On 2016-10-07 10:54 AM, Mariia Mykhailova wrote:
>
>> Moving to VS2015 while still keeping compliant with .NET 4.5 (and
>> thus not benefiting from language features) seems not very useful.
>>
>
> I thought compiler advancements were somewhat decoupled from the runtime
> layer in .NET? That is: Using C# 6 to target .NET 4.5 should be possible,
> no?
>
> Markus
>
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de>.
On 2016-10-07 10:54 AM, Mariia Mykhailova wrote:
> Moving to VS2015 while still keeping compliant with .NET 4.5 (and
> thus not benefiting from language features) seems not very useful.
I thought compiler advancements were somewhat decoupled from the runtime
layer in .NET? That is: Using C# 6 to target .NET 4.5 should be
possible, no?
Markus
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com>.
Yes. Once it will be deployed on Azure PaaS VMs by default. I assume sometimes till end of this year.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 7, 2016, at 10:54 AM, Mariia Mykhailova <ma...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> Boris, do you have any plan for moving to .NET 4.6? Moving to VS2015 while still keeping compliant with .NET 4.5 (and thus not benefiting from language features) seems not very useful.
>
> Meanwhile, I've configured a second AppVeyor CI job which verifies that our code still builds with VS2013 (and .NET 4.5).
>
> -Mariia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boris Shulman [mailto:shulmanb@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 6:01 PM
> To: dev@reef.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
>
> Yes. You are right we won't get the new language features.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Oct 5, 2016, at 5:30 PM, Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> We can move to VS2015, but still use VS2013 compiler for example and
>>> compile with .NET 4.5.
>>
>> Which compiler are you referring to? The trigger for this thread is a
>> desire to use new C# language features. We won't get them when we use
>> the compilers from VS 2013, right?
>>
>> Markus
RE: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Mariia Mykhailova <ma...@microsoft.com>.
Boris, do you have any plan for moving to .NET 4.6? Moving to VS2015 while still keeping compliant with .NET 4.5 (and thus not benefiting from language features) seems not very useful.
Meanwhile, I've configured a second AppVeyor CI job which verifies that our code still builds with VS2013 (and .NET 4.5).
-Mariia
-----Original Message-----
From: Boris Shulman [mailto:shulmanb@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 6:01 PM
To: dev@reef.apache.org
Subject: Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Yes. You are right we won't get the new language features.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 5, 2016, at 5:30 PM, Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We can move to VS2015, but still use VS2013 compiler for example and
>> compile with .NET 4.5.
>
> Which compiler are you referring to? The trigger for this thread is a
> desire to use new C# language features. We won't get them when we use
> the compilers from VS 2013, right?
>
> Markus
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com>.
Yes. You are right we won't get the new language features.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 5, 2016, at 5:30 PM, Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We can move to VS2015, but still use VS2013 compiler for example and
>> compile with .NET 4.5.
>
> Which compiler are you referring to? The trigger for this thread is a
> desire to use new C# language features. We won't get them when we use
> the compilers from VS 2013, right?
>
> Markus
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de>.
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We can move to VS2015, but still use VS2013 compiler for example and
> compile with .NET 4.5.
Which compiler are you referring to? The trigger for this thread is a
desire to use new C# language features. We won't get them when we use
the compilers from VS 2013, right?
Markus
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Boris Shulman <sh...@gmail.com>.
We can move to VS2015, but still use VS2013 compiler for example and
compile with .NET 4.5. My concerns regarding .NET 4.6 still exist.
Boris.
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de> wrote:
> +1 on the general idea of moving to more modern versions of Visual
> Studio and .NET as a requirement. However:
>
> there were some hesitations about moving to .NET 4.6 as a runtime
> requirement when we discussed this as a step towards a .NET Core
> version of REEF.NET. Boris was one of the people who had concerns. Do
> they still exist?
>
> I believe moving to Visual Studio 2015 does not also require us to
> move to .NET 4.6 as the required runtime environment. Hence, that
> change might be a bit easier and could be done first.
>
> Markus
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Mariia Mykhailova
> <ma...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We've added support for building REEF.NET in VS2015 half a year ago.
> Originally we intended for it to replace VS2013, but since we've found a
> way to support building REEF in both VS2013 and VS2015 we allowed the two
> to coexist peacefully.
> >
> > I feel that support for both VS2015 and VS2013 is inconvenient in the
> long term. We can't benefit from new features in C# 6 and .NET 4.6 as long
> as we must provide compatibility with old runtime.
> >
> > Let's discuss whether it's possible to drop support for VS2013 and what
> work is required.
> >
> > - We need to make sure all clusters which run REEF-based jobs
> have .NET 4.6 framework installed.
> >
> > - Our build tools need to be updated to support C# 6. For
> example, StyleCop treats some C# 6 features as violations even when
> building with VS2015.
> >
> > We should also create an AppVeyor flavor that would run CI using VS2013
> to ensure this compatibility while we need it. Right now our CI doesn't
> detect build failures in VS2013.
> >
> > -Mariia
>
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de>.
+1 on the general idea of moving to more modern versions of Visual
Studio and .NET as a requirement. However:
there were some hesitations about moving to .NET 4.6 as a runtime
requirement when we discussed this as a step towards a .NET Core
version of REEF.NET. Boris was one of the people who had concerns. Do
they still exist?
I believe moving to Visual Studio 2015 does not also require us to
move to .NET 4.6 as the required runtime environment. Hence, that
change might be a bit easier and could be done first.
Markus
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Mariia Mykhailova
<ma...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We've added support for building REEF.NET in VS2015 half a year ago. Originally we intended for it to replace VS2013, but since we've found a way to support building REEF in both VS2013 and VS2015 we allowed the two to coexist peacefully.
>
> I feel that support for both VS2015 and VS2013 is inconvenient in the long term. We can't benefit from new features in C# 6 and .NET 4.6 as long as we must provide compatibility with old runtime.
>
> Let's discuss whether it's possible to drop support for VS2013 and what work is required.
>
> - We need to make sure all clusters which run REEF-based jobs have .NET 4.6 framework installed.
>
> - Our build tools need to be updated to support C# 6. For example, StyleCop treats some C# 6 features as violations even when building with VS2015.
>
> We should also create an AppVeyor flavor that would run CI using VS2013 to ensure this compatibility while we need it. Right now our CI doesn't detect build failures in VS2013.
>
> -Mariia
Re: Drop support for VS2013 in REEF.NET
Posted by Markus Weimer <ma...@weimo.de>.
+1 on the general idea of moving to more modern versions of Visual
Studio and .NET as a requirement. However:
there were some hesitations about moving to .NET 4.6 as a runtime
requirement when we discussed this as a step towards a .NET Core
version of REEF.NET. Boris was one of the people who had concerns. Do
they still exist?
I believe moving to Visual Studio 2015 does not also require us to
move to .NET 4.6 as the required runtime environment. Hence, that
change might be a bit easier and could be done first.
Markus
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 1:07 PM, Mariia Mykhailova
<ma...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We've added support for building REEF.NET in VS2015 half a year ago. Originally we intended for it to replace VS2013, but since we've found a way to support building REEF in both VS2013 and VS2015 we allowed the two to coexist peacefully.
>
> I feel that support for both VS2015 and VS2013 is inconvenient in the long term. We can't benefit from new features in C# 6 and .NET 4.6 as long as we must provide compatibility with old runtime.
>
> Let's discuss whether it's possible to drop support for VS2013 and what work is required.
>
> - We need to make sure all clusters which run REEF-based jobs have .NET 4.6 framework installed.
>
> - Our build tools need to be updated to support C# 6. For example, StyleCop treats some C# 6 features as violations even when building with VS2015.
>
> We should also create an AppVeyor flavor that would run CI using VS2013 to ensure this compatibility while we need it. Right now our CI doesn't detect build failures in VS2013.
>
> -Mariia