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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com> on 2008/02/01 06:24:50 UTC
[PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Hello Dear incubators:
I am Huang Neng Geng. I would like to post my proposal about i18n4data, an
i18n tool for java web application, that I would like to be incubated.
Currently I cannot find any sponsors for this project, so if anyone reading
this message would like to get on board, it will be really appreciated.
I am new to Apache Incubator. This proposal is post here only. I don't know
any other places to post. I will be appreciated if any one could help.
Here follows the proposal.
= i18n4data Project Proposal =
Author: Huang Neng Geng (MailTo: huangng@yahoo.com, huangng@gmail.com )
Date: January 2008
Status: .:: D R A F T ::.
Proposal draft
i18n4data
==============================
1 Abstract
==============================
The i18n4data is a Java i18n library and tool not only for interface
message, but also for user's data.
==============================
2 Proposal
==============================
The i18n4data (i18n4data means i18n for data) allows an existing web
application designed for single language to support multi languages without
any changes in the data structure and software architecture. It also helps
to simplify the design of new i18n web applications.
The i18n4data supports not only the internationalization of web application
interface message, but also the internationalization of user's data. The
internationalization of user's data is very complex and requires detail
design of data structure and software architecture. By using i18n4data,
application developers simply configure i18n4data only and the application
becomes internationalized.
==============================
3 Background
==============================
The i18n4data project started three months ago. The idea came from a
customer needs to internationalization an existing ERP system to support
multi languages of user's data, such as product name. By using i18n4data,
the ERP system supports multi languages for all necessarily input fields
now. The i18n4data is not designed for a specific system and may be used
wildly to reduce the complexity of i18n process of web applications.
==============================
4 Rationale
==============================
Java SDK provides an i18n solution for interface message but didn't provides
any solutions for user's data. Java message bundle technology has following
three disadvantages:
1. It do not support i18n of user's data;
2. It is difficult to maintain the message bundles file, especially the
consistence of message bundles of different languages;
3. It is difficult for end users to change the translations of interface
message. The end users need knowledge about java programming language and
the application code itself.
The i18n4data provides a solution with following advantages:
1. It supports i18n of both interface message and user's data;
2. It is easy of installation, easy of implementation, and easy of use.
3. It supports i18n of user's data without any changes in data structure of
application.
The i18n4data provides an alternative to i18n message bundle technology. It
could not replace existing i18n implementations because i18n4data does not
support format of string, date, time, number, and currency. The i18n4data
and i18n message bundle may work together.
==============================
5 Initial Goals
==============================
The initial goals are:
* supports i18n of interface message of java web applications;
* supports i18n of user's data of java web applications;
* supports user's data searching in various languages;
* provides an easy way to configure i18n4data;
* provides interfaces for editing messages of various languages;
* provides security control to message edit;
* supports most compliant Servlet or J2EE container.
==============================
6 Current Status
==============================
===6.1 Meritocracy===
We plan to do everything possible to encourage an environment that supports
a meritocracy.
===6.2 Community===
The i18n4data is a project on SourceForge. It will remain an active
community and continues to grow.
===6.3 Core Developers===
Currently, there is only one core developer. Huang Neng Geng is the main
developer on this project. It is expected that developers from a variety of
existing Apache projects will become part of the team.
===6.4 Alignment===
The i18n4data will likely be widely used by various open source and
commercial projects that have a dependency on Apache Tomcat and other
compliant Servlet or J2EE container. It will work with i18n tag library to
provide a perfect i18n solution.
==============================
7 Known Risks
==============================
===7.1 Orphaned products===
This project is recently started and has only one developer at present.
There is a risk of being orphaned. But the project is small and the
requirement for i18n of user's data is continues growing. The risk is not
very big.
===7.2 Inexperience with Open Source===
The main developer developed another open source (eOfficeWare) on
SourceForge in 2004.
===7.3 Homogenous Developers===
More developers from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of needs
are welcome to join this project.
===7.4 Reliance on Salaried Developers===
The i18n4data does not rely on salaried developers.
===7.5 Relationships with Other Apache Products===
The i18n4data will have relationship with Apache log4j project.
===7.6 An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand===
The main developer is familiar with Apache and has used more than five
software of Apache project.
==============================
8 Documentation
==============================
The official documentation will be hosted in a SourceForge website:
http://i18n4data.sourceforge.net/
==============================
9 Initial Source
==============================
The official initial source is hosted in a SourceForge website:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/i18n4data
==============================
10 Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
==============================
All source code is copyrighted by Huang Neng Geng.
==============================
11 External Dependencies
==============================
The i18n4data depends on HSQLDB, which is an open source with itself license
agreement.
==============================
12 Cryptography
==============================
The i18n4data does not use cryptography in any way.
==============================
=== I could not provide following information at present ==
=== to be added later ===
==============================
13 Required Resources
13.1 Mailing lists
13.2 Subversion Directory
13.3 Issue Tracking
13.4 Other Resources
==============================
14 Initial Committers
==============================
15 Affiliations
==============================
16 Sponsors
Anyone who would like to be a sponsor are welcome. I will be really
appreciated.
16.1 Champion
16.2 Nominated Mentors
16.3 Sponsoring Entity
--
------------------------------
Mr. Huang Neng Geng
------------------------------
Associate Professor
Computer Information Engineering Department
Wuxi Institute of Technology
Wuxi, Jiangsu, China, 214073
Tel: 86-510-5414627(8087)
Mobile: 13921501950
email: huangng@gmail.com, huangng@yahoo.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
> Thank you very much that you will spend time on my proposal.
Sure, no problem :-)
I could find any sources though. Do you use another repository than
the one mentioned on the sourceforge site, or do you still have to
check your sources in?
Cheers,
Eelco
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Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com>.
Dear Eelco:
Thank you very much that you will spend time on my proposal.
I will be really appreciated if you could be a sponsor.
Best regards
Huang
On 2/2/08, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 31, 2008 9:24 PM, Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello Dear incubators:
> >
> > I am Huang Neng Geng. I would like to post my proposal about i18n4data,
> an
> > i18n tool for java web application, that I would like to be incubated.
> >
> > Currently I cannot find any sponsors for this project, so if anyone
> reading
> > this message would like to get on board, it will be really appreciated.
>
> If I can find some time this weekend, I'd like to take a look. I might
> be interested in getting on board depending on whether I think the
> project has enough potential etc.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Eelco
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
------------------------------
Mr. Huang Neng Geng
------------------------------
Associate Professor
Computer Information Engineering Department
Wuxi Institute of Technology
Wuxi, Jiangsu, China, 214073
Tel: 86-510-5414627(8087)
Mobile: 13921501950
email: huangng@gmail.com, huangng@yahoo.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
On Jan 31, 2008 9:24 PM, Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Dear incubators:
>
> I am Huang Neng Geng. I would like to post my proposal about i18n4data, an
> i18n tool for java web application, that I would like to be incubated.
>
> Currently I cannot find any sponsors for this project, so if anyone reading
> this message would like to get on board, it will be really appreciated.
If I can find some time this weekend, I'd like to take a look. I might
be interested in getting on board depending on whether I think the
project has enough potential etc.
Cheers,
Eelco
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Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Ahmad,
I didn't put the source in CVS, I just put the source, bin, and demo files
in the download area[1]. You may visit that page and click download to
download page.
[1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/i18n4data
Thank you for your interest in it. Your comments is valuable to me.
Regards,
Huang
On 2/3/08, Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws> wrote:
>
> Neng Geng Huang wrote:
> > I reviewd commons-i18n. It is a different implementatoin with
> > different purpose.
>
> I could not find any source at this address [1]
> Could you show me the source, I think I don't get exactly what your
> i18n4data does.
>
> I am new here, but I think it would be better to merge whatever features
> you have into commons-i18n and try to move it outside commons-sandbox to
> commons-proper so it becomes an active/stable component.
>
> It would probably be faster that way, and it would make more sense as a
> commons-X project rather than a standalone project.
>
>
> [1] http://i18n4data.cvs.sourceforge.net/i18n4data/
>
>
> Regards,
> Ahmad
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
------------------------------
Mr. Huang Neng Geng
------------------------------
Associate Professor
Computer Information Engineering Department
Wuxi Institute of Technology
Wuxi, Jiangsu, China, 214073
Tel: 86-510-5414627(8087)
Mobile: 13921501950
email: huangng@gmail.com, huangng@yahoo.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws>.
Neng Geng Huang wrote:
> I reviewd commons-i18n. It is a different implementatoin with
> different purpose.
I could not find any source at this address [1]
Could you show me the source, I think I don't get exactly what your
i18n4data does.
I am new here, but I think it would be better to merge whatever features
you have into commons-i18n and try to move it outside commons-sandbox to
commons-proper so it becomes an active/stable component.
It would probably be faster that way, and it would make more sense as a
commons-X project rather than a standalone project.
[1] http://i18n4data.cvs.sourceforge.net/i18n4data/
Regards,
Ahmad
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Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com>.
On 2/3/08, Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws> wrote:
> Neng Geng Huang wrote:
> > The key of i18n4data is to i18n user's data, not interface message.
> > For example, if you are developing an e-shop web site to support two
> > languages (English and French), you might have a table to store your
> > goods item when you design the data structure:
>
> I don't see the difficulty localizing user data with bundles if you're
> talking about single strings.
No, it's not difficult to localizing user data with bundles. But my solution
could to that
without to change even one line of application code. All things are done
through filter
and configuration.
My solution also give an interface to edit these translation.
The limitation I see in bundles are the Key/Value per Lanuage design.
> You can not add more attributes to an item, or have multi values per item.
>
> If you just want to move the key/value data from bundles to database
> tables, then perhaps you should check out commons-i18n which, as far as
> I understand, does exactly what you propose and maybe even a little more.
I reviewd commons-i18n. It is a different implementatoin with different
purpose.
[1] commons-i18n
> http://commons.apache.org/sandbox/i18n/
>
> Regards,
> Ahmad
Regards,
Huang
Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws>.
Neng Geng Huang wrote:
> The key of i18n4data is to i18n user's data, not interface message.
> For example, if you are developing an e-shop web site to support two
> languages (English and French), you might have a table to store your
> goods item when you design the data structure:
I don't see the difficulty localizing user data with bundles if you're
talking about single strings.
The limitation I see in bundles are the Key/Value per Lanuage design.
You can not add more attributes to an item, or have multi values per item.
If you just want to move the key/value data from bundles to database
tables, then perhaps you should check out commons-i18n which, as far as
I understand, does exactly what you propose and maybe even a little more.
[1] commons-i18n
http://commons.apache.org/sandbox/i18n/
Regards,
Ahmad
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Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi Huang,
Actually we have also an UI to deal with that in OFBiz. It's in the content component. It's also dynamic (since it's using the DB) but I must confess it's not easy to use (not ergonomic I should say). The demo date xml files below are only supposed to be loaded at start to populate the correspondind entites if needed (demo purpose).
I will follow your work, and maybe the OFBiz community at large could be interested too. In order to let the community be aware I post also this answer to our dev ML. For those interested here is the original thread
http://www.nabble.com/-PROPOSAL--i18n4data-Proposal-td15220976.html
I hope you will find enough interest in Apache community for your project to get to the incubator.
Thanks
Jacques
From: Neng Geng Huang
To: Jacques Le Roux
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Hi, Jacques,
I still think they are quite different. In my oprion, the difference is:
Resource bundle files are static. Here I mean the entries were created during
developing time or need a developer to modify it though the values can be
edited later or at runtime. OfBiz xml file is the same.
i18n4data is dynamic, entries may be added into the dictionary at runtime.
Therefore, a end user may add new entries at any time. If the end user is
give permisions to edit the translation, all the i18n process takes place through
web pages.
Please give more comments, thanks.
Regards,
Huang
On 2/3/08, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
Hi Huang,
Actually we have already a such mechanims in OFBiz have a look at
http://fisheye6.cenqua.com/browse/ofbiz/trunk/applications/ecommerce/data/DemoProductCategoriesI18nData.xml?r=608438
http://fisheye6.cenqua.com/browse/ofbiz/trunk/applications/ecommerce/data/DemoProductI18nData.xml?r=499486
Jacques
Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com>.
Hi! Jacques,
Thanks for your information.
The key of i18n4data is to i18n user's data, not interface message. For
example, if you are developing an e-shop web site to support two languages
(English and French), you might have a table to store your goods item when
you design the data structure:
ItemId int primary key,
ItemName_en varchar(50);
ItemName_fr varchar(50);
and so on.....
The employees of your web site have to input goods name in English and
French separately so that the end users (clients of the s-shop) could select
English or French to browse the e-shop.
Later, you may be asked to add one language more, and you have to change
many things, just repeat coding.
With i18n4data, you could design the web site only for one language and
i18n4data has a tool to i18n the web site.
My implementation uses database to store the key-value information. We may
use xml file or others to store. I didn't compare database solution and xml
solution, so I don't know which one is better. Anyway, l'd like all in one
file, then it will be esay to maintanin all languages.
The i18n of interface message is only an additional feature.
Hope the feature to i18n user's data may help both existing web site and web
site design.
Best regards,
Huang
On 2/2/08, Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> In OFBiz we have taken another but similar approach using XML as
> repository (and not a real database), please see :
>
>
> http://www.nabble.com/XML-properties-files---brainstorm-td13955196.html#a13955196
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-1442
>
> There is currently an effort to migrate all our properties files to XML
> files.
>
> Jacques Le Roux
>
> From: "Neng Geng Huang" <hu...@gmail.com>
> > Hello, Ahmad:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your interesting in i18n4data.
> >
> >
> >
> > i18n4data is an alternative to resource bundles. If one wants to shift
> from
> > resource bundles to i18n4data then he might need to move the messages
> from
> > resource bundles to a database table. At present my project is only
> focus on
> > i18n of user's data, which could not be done by resource bundles. It
> will be
> > helpful to include this transfer tool into i18n4data.
> >
> >
> >
> > The proposal you mentioned is quite different from mine. You are
> thinking
> > about Business Application Framework, a very high level of development.
> The
> > i18n4data is only an tool to help an existing application to be in18ned.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Huang
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/2/08, Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Neng Geng Huang wrote:
> >> > Currently I cannot find any sponsors for this project, so if anyone
> >> > reading this message would like to get on board, it will be really
> >> > appreciated.
> >>
> >> I am not a sponsor/mentor, but I would be interested in participating.
> >> I ran into this issue before, when working on this [1]. My main problem
> >> was how to i18n a dropdown menu.
> >>
> >> Resource Bundles did not allow you to store multiple values per key,
> and
> >> they did not have a reverse lookup, i.e. from french value to key.
> >>
> >> The solution that I was going to work on, was to move the messages from
> >> ResourceBundles to a database table. Is this a similar approach?
> >>
> >> [1] - Business Application Framework.
> >>
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200801.mbox/%3c4795FBBB.7020507@khalifa.ws%3e
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Ahmad
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------
> > Mr. Huang Neng Geng
> > ------------------------------
> > Associate Professor
> > Computer Information Engineering Department
> > Wuxi Institute of Technology
> > Wuxi, Jiangsu, China, 214073
> > Tel: 86-510-5414627(8087)
> > Mobile: 13921501950
> > email: huangng@gmail.com, huangng@yahoo.com
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
------------------------------
Mr. Huang Neng Geng
------------------------------
Associate Professor
Computer Information Engineering Department
Wuxi Institute of Technology
Wuxi, Jiangsu, China, 214073
Tel: 86-510-5414627(8087)
Mobile: 13921501950
email: huangng@gmail.com, huangng@yahoo.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi,
In OFBiz we have taken another but similar approach using XML as repository (and not a real database), please see :
http://www.nabble.com/XML-properties-files---brainstorm-td13955196.html#a13955196
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-1442
There is currently an effort to migrate all our properties files to XML files.
Jacques Le Roux
From: "Neng Geng Huang" <hu...@gmail.com>
> Hello, Ahmad:
>
>
>
> Thank you for your interesting in i18n4data.
>
>
>
> i18n4data is an alternative to resource bundles. If one wants to shift from
> resource bundles to i18n4data then he might need to move the messages from
> resource bundles to a database table. At present my project is only focus on
> i18n of user's data, which could not be done by resource bundles. It will be
> helpful to include this transfer tool into i18n4data.
>
>
>
> The proposal you mentioned is quite different from mine. You are thinking
> about Business Application Framework, a very high level of development. The
> i18n4data is only an tool to help an existing application to be in18ned.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Huang
>
>
>
> On 2/2/08, Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Neng Geng Huang wrote:
>> > Currently I cannot find any sponsors for this project, so if anyone
>> > reading this message would like to get on board, it will be really
>> > appreciated.
>>
>> I am not a sponsor/mentor, but I would be interested in participating.
>> I ran into this issue before, when working on this [1]. My main problem
>> was how to i18n a dropdown menu.
>>
>> Resource Bundles did not allow you to store multiple values per key, and
>> they did not have a reverse lookup, i.e. from french value to key.
>>
>> The solution that I was going to work on, was to move the messages from
>> ResourceBundles to a database table. Is this a similar approach?
>>
>> [1] - Business Application Framework.
>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200801.mbox/%3c4795FBBB.7020507@khalifa.ws%3e
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ahmad
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Mr. Huang Neng Geng
> ------------------------------
> Associate Professor
> Computer Information Engineering Department
> Wuxi Institute of Technology
> Wuxi, Jiangsu, China, 214073
> Tel: 86-510-5414627(8087)
> Mobile: 13921501950
> email: huangng@gmail.com, huangng@yahoo.com
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Neng Geng Huang <hu...@gmail.com>.
Hello, Ahmad:
Thank you for your interesting in i18n4data.
i18n4data is an alternative to resource bundles. If one wants to shift from
resource bundles to i18n4data then he might need to move the messages from
resource bundles to a database table. At present my project is only focus on
i18n of user's data, which could not be done by resource bundles. It will be
helpful to include this transfer tool into i18n4data.
The proposal you mentioned is quite different from mine. You are thinking
about Business Application Framework, a very high level of development. The
i18n4data is only an tool to help an existing application to be in18ned.
Best regards,
Huang
On 2/2/08, Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws> wrote:
>
>
> Neng Geng Huang wrote:
> > Currently I cannot find any sponsors for this project, so if anyone
> > reading this message would like to get on board, it will be really
> > appreciated.
>
> I am not a sponsor/mentor, but I would be interested in participating.
> I ran into this issue before, when working on this [1]. My main problem
> was how to i18n a dropdown menu.
>
> Resource Bundles did not allow you to store multiple values per key, and
> they did not have a reverse lookup, i.e. from french value to key.
>
> The solution that I was going to work on, was to move the messages from
> ResourceBundles to a database table. Is this a similar approach?
>
> [1] - Business Application Framework.
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200801.mbox/%3c4795FBBB.7020507@khalifa.ws%3e
>
>
> Regards,
> Ahmad
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
------------------------------
Mr. Huang Neng Geng
------------------------------
Associate Professor
Computer Information Engineering Department
Wuxi Institute of Technology
Wuxi, Jiangsu, China, 214073
Tel: 86-510-5414627(8087)
Mobile: 13921501950
email: huangng@gmail.com, huangng@yahoo.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] i18n4data Proposal
Posted by Ahmad Khalifa <ah...@khalifa.ws>.
Neng Geng Huang wrote:
> Currently I cannot find any sponsors for this project, so if anyone
> reading this message would like to get on board, it will be really
> appreciated.
I am not a sponsor/mentor, but I would be interested in participating.
I ran into this issue before, when working on this [1]. My main problem
was how to i18n a dropdown menu.
Resource Bundles did not allow you to store multiple values per key, and
they did not have a reverse lookup, i.e. from french value to key.
The solution that I was going to work on, was to move the messages from
ResourceBundles to a database table. Is this a similar approach?
[1] - Business Application Framework.
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200801.mbox/%3c4795FBBB.7020507@khalifa.ws%3e
Regards,
Ahmad
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