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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Rodney Waldhoff <rw...@apache.org> on 2003/11/05 23:28:22 UTC
[hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
I'll admit I haven't read every [hivemind] message on this, but I've read
quite a few of them, and the precise situation still isn't quite clear to
me.
If I understand it correctly, all of the code in HiveMind was either:
1) moved to the j-c-sandbox from tapestry
or
2) created new in the j-c-sandbox by Howard
the trouble being that some of the work under #2 was done on WebCT's dime,
and that while Howard believed that was acceptable to WebCT at the time,
now there seems to be some ambiguity in the matter.
Is that correct?
Howard, can you explain in more detail:
A) What exactly is WebCT asserting with respect to HiveMind?
B) What exactly WebCT would like to do/plans to do/would like the ASF to
do as a result of that?
C) If relevant, what is your opinion/position on their assertions under A?
--
- Rod <http://radio.weblogs.com/0122027/>
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Re: [hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 11:36 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> is there any chance that the hivemind development team will voluntarily
>> 'cvs remove' the offending material ASAP until the IP issues are sorted
>> out?
>
> That seems a bit drastic, considering the fact that Howard indicates that
> WebCT is prepared to contribute the code. No need to tear everything down
> and lose the CVS history. If necessary (and I don't know if it is), we
> could block access to the directory tree on the server pending resolution.
hi noel
thanks for the heads up. blocking sounds a much better plan than removal.
- robert
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RE: [hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> is there any chance that the hivemind development team will voluntarily
> 'cvs remove' the offending material ASAP until the IP issues are sorted
> out?
That seems a bit drastic, considering the fact that Howard indicates that
WebCT is prepared to contribute the code. No need to tear everything down
and lose the CVS history. If necessary (and I don't know if it is), we
could block access to the directory tree on the server pending resolution.
Howard's information to the PMC would go a long way to informing you if any
action at all is necessary.
--- Noel
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Re: [hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 10:49 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 12:35 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>>> We're not the ones whom Howard needs to discuss this with.
>>
>>> Yes and no. I'm on the Jakarta PMC, you're an ASF member, we're
>>> both jakarta commons committers, so I belive and as I understand
>>> it, we are among the ones Howard needs to discuss this with.
>>
>> In your capacity as a Jakarta PMC member, yes. And there are other PMC
>> members here, such as Craig, Danny, and Howard, himself, IIRC.
>>
>> I don't care if he talks with me about this situation or not; the Board
>> are
>> our elected Officers, with the experience to resolve such matters, or
>> bring
>> them to the membership if they felt the need. However, Howard has an
>> obligation to notify the Foundation when an IP issue arises. Even though
>> there is reason to believe that this situation will work out fine, and
>> even
>> if the PMC and Board would delegate to him the ability to work out the
>> plan
>> within some guidelines, keeping them out of the loop is not his decision
>> to
>> make. I am honestly not sure what he's thinking in terms of why he has
>> not
>> brought the issue to the PMC and/or Board. Some of his messages seem to
>> imply that he feels that if he did, there would be drastic action.
>
> If this continues this way, there probably will be drastic action, namely
> removing material of questionable IP provenance from Apache CVSs
> (temporarily) while the issues are resolved. I think that while there
> are many PMC members here, I think a note to the PMC outlining the issues
> and status would be a great start.
is there any chance that the hivemind development team will voluntarily
'cvs remove' the offending material ASAP until the IP issues are sorted
out?
(the reason for this move is that we need to be pro-active on this matter.
it can easily be reinstated once this matter is sorted out but courts
have a habit of seeing this kind of behaviour as aggrovating the original
offense.)
i'd hate to see the entire repository taken off line over this matter.
- robert
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Re: [hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 12:35 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> We're not the ones whom Howard needs to discuss this with.
>
>> Yes and no. I'm on the Jakarta PMC, you're an ASF member, we're
>> both jakarta commons committers, so I belive and as I understand
>> it, we are among the ones Howard needs to discuss this with.
>
> In your capacity as a Jakarta PMC member, yes. And there are other PMC
> members here, such as Craig, Danny, and Howard, himself, IIRC.
>
> I don't care if he talks with me about this situation or not; the
> Board are
> our elected Officers, with the experience to resolve such matters, or
> bring
> them to the membership if they felt the need. However, Howard has an
> obligation to notify the Foundation when an IP issue arises. Even
> though
> there is reason to believe that this situation will work out fine, and
> even
> if the PMC and Board would delegate to him the ability to work out the
> plan
> within some guidelines, keeping them out of the loop is not his
> decision to
> make. I am honestly not sure what he's thinking in terms of why he
> has not
> brought the issue to the PMC and/or Board. Some of his messages seem
> to
> imply that he feels that if he did, there would be drastic action.
If this continues this way, there probably will be drastic action,
namely removing material of questionable IP provenance from Apache CVSs
(temporarily) while the issues are resolved. I think that while there
are many PMC members here, I think a note to the PMC outlining the
issues and status would be a great start.
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@optonline.net
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RE: [hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > We're not the ones whom Howard needs to discuss this with.
> Yes and no. I'm on the Jakarta PMC, you're an ASF member, we're
> both jakarta commons committers, so I belive and as I understand
> it, we are among the ones Howard needs to discuss this with.
In your capacity as a Jakarta PMC member, yes. And there are other PMC
members here, such as Craig, Danny, and Howard, himself, IIRC.
I don't care if he talks with me about this situation or not; the Board are
our elected Officers, with the experience to resolve such matters, or bring
them to the membership if they felt the need. However, Howard has an
obligation to notify the Foundation when an IP issue arises. Even though
there is reason to believe that this situation will work out fine, and even
if the PMC and Board would delegate to him the ability to work out the plan
within some guidelines, keeping them out of the loop is not his decision to
make. I am honestly not sure what he's thinking in terms of why he has not
brought the issue to the PMC and/or Board. Some of his messages seem to
imply that he feels that if he did, there would be drastic action.
--- Noel
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RE: [hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
Posted by Rodney Waldhoff <rw...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> We're not the ones whom Howard needs to discuss this with.
Yes and no. I'm on the Jakarta PMC, you're an ASF member, we're
both jakarta commons committers, so I belive and as I understand it, we
are among the ones Howard needs to discuss this with.
> --- Noel
- Rod <http://radio.weblogs.com/0122027/>
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RE: [hivemind] what exactly is the issue here?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Rodney,
The only reason why this issue keeps getting airtime here is because it
hasn't been brought to the Jakarta PMC or the ASF Board, and people are
asking him to do so.
> If I understand it correctly, all of the code in HiveMind was either:
> 1) moved to the j-c-sandbox from tapestry
> 2) created new in the j-c-sandbox by Howard
> the trouble being that some of the work under #2 was done on WebCT's dime,
> and that while Howard believed that was acceptable to WebCT at the time,
> now there seems to be some ambiguity in the matter.
A good summary of my understanding, although I don't believe that there is
an ambiguity with respect to to WebCT. Howard developed it on their time
without realizing that it gave them rights. WebCT apparently wants to
assign copyright to the ASF, so that's good, but apparently wants some form
of credit in return.
> Howard, can you explain in more detail:
> A) What exactly is WebCT asserting with respect to HiveMind?
> B) What exactly WebCT would like to do/plans to do/would like
> the ASF to do as a result of that?
> C) If relevant, what is your opinion/position on their assertions under A?
We're not the ones whom Howard needs to discuss this with.
--- Noel
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