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Posted to general@xml.apache.org by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com> on 2004/11/01 16:59:15 UTC
Ensuring integrity & searchability of ML archives (was Re: [REQUEST] XML Graphics setup) (Modified by Clay Leeds)
NOTE1: This is a repost sent To:infrastructure@a.o and
Cc:general@x.a.o. With the exception of NOTE1: it is otherwise
unchanged from my post to fop-dev & batik-dev.
Clay
====
NOTE: This was sent to fop-dev & batik-dev as I have a question about
the mailing lists I'd like to clarify before we 'ask' infrustructure@.
On Oct 31, 2004, at 1:28 AM, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> Dear infrastructure people,
>
> the board has recently accepted the proposal for creation of the XML
> Graphics project (which is comprised of the XML projects Batik and
> FOP).
> To aid in the process, would infrastructure please do the following:
>
> #=======================================
> [0] Subdomain and unix group
>
> The name of the new subdomain and unix group is "xmlgraphics".
>
> #=======================================
> [1] Mailing List
>
> (i) addresses
>
> I. general@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> II. general-commits@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> III. pmc@xmlgraphics.apache.org (private mailing list)
>
>
> (ia) renames and aliases
>
> I. batik-dev@xml.apache.org to batik-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> I. batik-users@xml.apache.org to batik-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> II. xml-batik-cvs@xml.apache.org to
> batik-commits@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> I. fop-dev@xml.apache.org to fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> I. fop-users@xml.apache.org to fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> II. xml-fop-cvs@xml.apache.org to fop-commits@xmlgraphics.apache.org
>
> Please create aliases so the old adresses continue to work!
When the Apache Forrest project changed to a new domain, they also
changed from forrest-dev@x.a.o to dev@f.a.o & user@f.a.o.
Unfortunately, with this change comes (IMHO) a significant problem for
browsers of the archives: forrest-dev@ mail is a completely separate
mailing list (with a separate interface). The problem is that
forrest-dev was used for *all* dev *&* user mailing list traffic, so a
search in the 'current' mailing lists' archives does not include
content in forrest-dev (that's a separate search).
For example, with the change to fop-user@xmlgraphics.apache.org, I'd
like to make certain (if possible or logical) that we don't end up with
a similar problem.
I'm not certain what the 'solution' looks like (or even if it's a real
problem!), but I thought we should chat. If it is a problem, we may
need to set up <mailing-list>@xmlgraphics.apache.org as an alias to
<mailing-list>@xml.apache.org. IOW, the mailing lists do *not* change
and we add aliases for @xmlgraphics.a.o.
Is this something we should worry about? IMO, the ability to search
relevant archives using one search is more important than having a
'real' address vs. an alias. We still would want to have all headers
(e.g., Reply-To:) and trailers set to <mailing-list>@xmlgraphics.a.o
Thoughts?
Web Maestro Clay
--
Clay Leeds - <cl...@medata.com>
Webmaster/Developer - Medata, Inc. - <http://www.medata.com/>
PGP Public Key: <https://mail.medata.com/pgp/cleeds.asc>
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Re: Ensuring integrity & searchability of ML archives (was Re: [REQUEST] XML Graphics setup) (Modified by Clay Leeds)
Posted by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com>.
On Nov 1, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Clay Leeds wrote:
>> When the Apache Forrest project changed to a new domain, they also
>> changed from forrest-dev@x.a.o to dev@f.a.o & user@f.a.o.
>> Unfortunately, with this change comes (IMHO) a significant problem
>> for browsers of the archives: forrest-dev@ mail is a completely
>> separate mailing list (with a separate interface). The problem is
>> that forrest-dev was used for *all* dev *&* user mailing list
>> traffic, so a search in the 'current' mailing lists' archives does
>> not include content in forrest-dev (that's a separate search).
>
> Which archives are you looking at?
First let me say, that I have not mentioned this to the Forrest people
nor do I speak for them. I just want to ensure that a problem doesn't
occur.
If you look on Forrest's Mailing List page[1], you'll see three Mailing
Lists:
- user@forrest[2]
- dev@forrest
- svn@forrest
The user@ list has an Eyebrowse link and the dev@ list has Eyebrowse
*&* MARC links.
I was looking at user@forrest.apache.org, which only goes back to May
2004.
> The eyebrowse archives include the forrest-dev@xml and go back to
> November 2002.
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?
> listName=dev@forrest.apache.org&by=date&from=2002-05-01&to=2002-05
> -31&first=1&count=636
True, however forrest-dev@x.a.o was the only list between May 2002 &
May 2004, and was used for 'user@' as well as 'dev@' questions. Hence,
a search on user@ lists (where a user would expect to find answers)
won't return any 'hits' before May 2004. In order to search pre-May
2004 'user' archives, one must search the
dev@forrest.apache.org/forrest-dev@x.a.o lists.
Perhaps it makes sense to include the forrest-dev posts in the 'index'
for user@f.a.o as well as dev@f.a.o.
NOTE: I'm not asking for this (I don't think it's my place to do so).
I'm just using this as an example of something I want to be careful of
WRT setting up xmlgraphics Mailing Lists & Archives.
> For Eyebrowse, when moving a list name, we generally set up a new
> archive under the new list name and index all the old messages into
> the new archive.
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
BTW, I hadn't noticed that the dev@ list actually includes all posts
back to 2002 (thanks for pointing that out!), as I'd been under the
impression one still had to use MARC[4] for that old content. The first
place I was searching was user@ Eyebrowse, and the content isn't there,
so I'd switch to MARC for older stuff.
BTW, the MARC link was down when I checked (it's back up now--must've
been a glitch).
In any case, my goal is to ensure that when someone searches the
fop-user archives, they get all the USER content. When someone searches
fop-dev, they get all the DEV content.
[1] Forrest Mailing Lists
http://forrest.apache.org/mail-lists.html
[2] Eyebrowse user@forrest.apache.org
http://issues.apache.org/eyebrowse/SummarizeList?listId=260
[3] Eyebrowse dev@forrest.apache.org
http://issues.apache.org/eyebrowse/SummarizeList?listId=259
[4] MARC forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=forrest-dev
Web Maestro Clay
--
Clay Leeds - <cl...@medata.com>
Webmaster/Developer - Medata, Inc. - <http://www.medata.com/>
PGP Public Key: <https://mail.medata.com/pgp/cleeds.asc>
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Re: Ensuring integrity & searchability of ML archives (was Re: [REQUEST] XML Graphics setup) (Modified by Clay Leeds)
Posted by Clay Leeds <cl...@medata.com>.
On Nov 1, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Clay Leeds wrote:
>> When the Apache Forrest project changed to a new domain, they also
>> changed from forrest-dev@x.a.o to dev@f.a.o & user@f.a.o.
>> Unfortunately, with this change comes (IMHO) a significant problem
>> for browsers of the archives: forrest-dev@ mail is a completely
>> separate mailing list (with a separate interface). The problem is
>> that forrest-dev was used for *all* dev *&* user mailing list
>> traffic, so a search in the 'current' mailing lists' archives does
>> not include content in forrest-dev (that's a separate search).
>
> Which archives are you looking at?
>
> The eyebrowse archives include the forrest-dev@xml and go back to
> November 2002.
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?
> listName=dev@forrest.apache.org&by=date&from=2002-05-01&to=2002-05
> -31&first=1&count=636
>
> For Eyebrowse, when moving a list name, we generally set up a new
> archive under the new list name and index all the old messages into
> the new archive.
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
Sorry. I guess I'm having trouble explaining this.
Because forrest-dev@xml.apache.org was the only list for a long time,
it was used for Forrest DEV issues *&* for Forrest USER issues. When
the Forrest was made an Apache Top-Level-Project
(http://forrest.apache.org) they decided to split the list into
dev@forrest.apache.org and user@forrest.apache.org.
The problem is that all of the USER-related information in the old
forrest-dev@x.a.o is inaccessible to a query by a someone searching the
USER@forrest.apache.org mailing list archives.
The solution (IMO) is to copy the forrest-dev@x.a.o information in to
the USER@f.a.o mailing list archives (I realize it's already copied to
the DEV@f.a.o archive). (NOTE: I want to reiterate that I'm not
requesting this change be done as I'm not a Forrest Committer and this
has not been discussed on dev@f.a.o). I just want to ensure the
integrity of fop-dev & fop-user lists remain intact during the switch
from fop-user@xml.apache.org to fop-user@xmlgraphics.apache.org. It
sounds like both archives can be merged, so this should not be a
problem for XML Graphics.
Web Maestro Clay
--
Clay Leeds - <cl...@medata.com>
Webmaster/Developer - Medata, Inc. - <http://www.medata.com/>
PGP Public Key: <https://mail.medata.com/pgp/cleeds.asc>
Re: Ensuring integrity & searchability of ML archives (was Re: [REQUEST]
XML Graphics setup) (Modified by Clay Leeds)
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Clay Leeds wrote:
> When the Apache Forrest project changed to a new domain, they also
> changed from forrest-dev@x.a.o to dev@f.a.o & user@f.a.o. Unfortunately,
> with this change comes (IMHO) a significant problem for browsers of the
> archives: forrest-dev@ mail is a completely separate mailing list (with
> a separate interface). The problem is that forrest-dev was used for
> *all* dev *&* user mailing list traffic, so a search in the 'current'
> mailing lists' archives does not include content in forrest-dev (that's
> a separate search).
Which archives are you looking at?
The eyebrowse archives include the forrest-dev@xml and go back to
November 2002.
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=dev@forrest.apache.org&by=date&from=2002-05-01&to=2002-05-31&first=1&count=636
For Eyebrowse, when moving a list name, we generally set up a new
archive under the new list name and index all the old messages into the
new archive.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Ensuring integrity & searchability of ML archives (was Re: [REQUEST]
XML Graphics setup) (Modified by Clay Leeds)
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Clay Leeds wrote:
> When the Apache Forrest project changed to a new domain, they also
> changed from forrest-dev@x.a.o to dev@f.a.o & user@f.a.o. Unfortunately,
> with this change comes (IMHO) a significant problem for browsers of the
> archives: forrest-dev@ mail is a completely separate mailing list (with
> a separate interface). The problem is that forrest-dev was used for
> *all* dev *&* user mailing list traffic, so a search in the 'current'
> mailing lists' archives does not include content in forrest-dev (that's
> a separate search).
Which archives are you looking at?
The eyebrowse archives include the forrest-dev@xml and go back to
November 2002.
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=dev@forrest.apache.org&by=date&from=2002-05-01&to=2002-05-31&first=1&count=636
For Eyebrowse, when moving a list name, we generally set up a new
archive under the new list name and index all the old messages into the
new archive.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: Ensuring integrity & searchability of ML archives (was Re: [REQUEST]
XML Graphics setup) (Modified by Clay Leeds)
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Clay Leeds wrote:
> When the Apache Forrest project changed to a new domain, they also
> changed from forrest-dev@x.a.o to dev@f.a.o & user@f.a.o. Unfortunately,
> with this change comes (IMHO) a significant problem for browsers of the
> archives: forrest-dev@ mail is a completely separate mailing list (with
> a separate interface). The problem is that forrest-dev was used for
> *all* dev *&* user mailing list traffic, so a search in the 'current'
> mailing lists' archives does not include content in forrest-dev (that's
> a separate search).
Which archives are you looking at?
The eyebrowse archives include the forrest-dev@xml and go back to
November 2002.
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=dev@forrest.apache.org&by=date&from=2002-05-01&to=2002-05-31&first=1&count=636
For Eyebrowse, when moving a list name, we generally set up a new
archive under the new list name and index all the old messages into the
new archive.
Cheers,
Berin