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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Endre Stølsvik <En...@stolsvik.com> on 2008/01/03 13:02:02 UTC
Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Bill Stoddard wrote:
> Incubator PMC,
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky
This sounds like a really interesting project. I mean that in two ways:
first, the project looks very worthwhile in itself, helping rural
communities a couple of extra steps up the education ladder by way of
high tech.
Secondly, possibly even more important in the long term, having a
Chinese initiated project at Apache would be a huge "political" win,
setting precedents: Despite the vast amount of (talented) Chinese
people, I feel that there are rather few widespread Chinese-initiated or
-led open source software projects - at least I don't know of many (And
if I'm making a fool of myself right there, then please give me a
clue-by-four right now!). It would be a boon to the universe if this
situation could be remedied as fast as possible. I actually have no
doubt that this will happen sooner or later, but if Apache can make it
happen sooner, possibly by helping just this project along the road to
worldwide open source adoption, that would be a really great side-goal
of this incubation.
And yes - this would obviously have to happen in English. Acknowledging
that Chinese is a HUGE language in terms of the number of people
speaking it, it is still no world language in terms of the number of
nationalities speaking it. This can present a problem for many Chinese,
given that English education hasn't been, _as far as I understand_, a
top priority in China until somewhat recently.
Thus, to make this happen, there will probably have to be made some
extra efforts on both sides. But this can, as mentioned, make a
precedent - BlueSky will be an example of Chinese initiated, world wide
developed and adopted, open source software - and I believe that the
potential long term rewards, not only for this project, can be big.
Endre, lurker.
PS: Due to the scope of the project, localization to the native
languages in the region of deployment, or the use of pictograms and
similar, will of course be of huge importance. This focus is also shared
with projects like Ubuntu and OLPC, as far as I understand - there might
be interest in collaboration.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@stolsvik.com>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 04 January 2008 11:22, Bozhong Lin wrote:
>> If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
>> into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented
>> Chinese developer community and many great Chinese-initiated projects could
>> come to Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China, it would
>> be wise for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from perspectives
>> of users and contributers.
>
> This sound like politics and won't impress people around here. I live in
> Malaysia, and understand this kind of reasoning, but your regular guy/gal in
> Europe/USA won't.
What _I_ said was that this seems like a good project in itself. That it
will set a precedent, and thereby maybe bootstrap lots of good, CAN be
viewed as an extra incentive to overcome any extra obstacles that will
present themselves due to language and social interaction / cultural
differences, as opposed to incubating a project already led by good
Americans who know the drill, code-of-conduct and last, but biggest, the
language.
Endre, still lurker.
PS: Regarding your above statement: I believe the regular guy/gal in
_Europe_ might..
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:15 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 04 January 2008 11:22, Bozhong Lin wrote:
>> If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
>> into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented
>> Chinese developer community and many great Chinese-initiated
>> projects could
>> come to Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China,
>> it would
>> be wise for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from
>> perspectives
>> of users and contributers.
>
> This sound like politics and won't impress people around here. I
> live in
> Malaysia, and understand this kind of reasoning, but your regular
> guy/gal in
> Europe/USA won't.
You are correct IMO, but not because of the prevailing geography of
Apache. I am hoping that nobody will be voting for BlueSky as some
kind of "strategic" move, and things will be judged on merits of the
specific project and the specific community.
Having said that I support BlueSky entry to the incubator and hope
that any possible obstacles will be resolved over the course of
incubation.
Cheers,
Andrus
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 04 January 2008 11:22, Bozhong Lin wrote:
> If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
> into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented
> Chinese developer community and many great Chinese-initiated projects could
> come to Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China, it would
> be wise for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from perspectives
> of users and contributers.
This sound like politics and won't impress people around here. I live in
Malaysia, and understand this kind of reasoning, but your regular guy/gal in
Europe/USA won't.
Regarding mentor; You need to be on the Incubator PMC to be a mentor. ASF
Members can be that by choice, and the Incubator PMC occassionally invites
dedicated Incubator contributors who are not ASF Members, but it it rare.
I have added myself as a Mentor to assist Aaron in this "east meets west"
project, as I think there will be cultural bridging needed.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: [DISCUSSION] BlueSky Proposal
Posted by Bozhong Lin <bo...@gmail.com>.
Without any doubt, this is a great project with several benefits mentioned
in discussion. If Apache could help this first Chinese-initiated project
into incubation, this will stimulate lot of enthusiasms in talented Chinese
developer community and many great Chinese-initiated projects could come to
Apache community. With fast IT technology growth in China, it would be wise
for Apache to engage Chinese developer community from perspectives of users
and contributers. I have also been doing elevator-pitching that we should
have ApacheCon held in China sooner rather than later.
Regarding to concerns about project communication in English, I don't think
its an obstacle for project at all. Chinese education and in general many
Chinese people emphasize a lot in English learning through their school
system. For example, all official schools in China have made English part of
compulsory courses from 6th grades since 3 decades ago, and many schools in
big city starts teaching English from elementary school a decade ago.
Several commercial English training institutions in China are even listed on
New York Stock exchange. There might be difficulty along the way, but I
think that's part of Apache incubation process to help project mature.
Having experiences of working with a team participating in various Apache
projects and Eclipse project out of Beijing location, I would like to help
Bluesky project in terms of project communication and release. If I am
qualified as a project mentor, I would volunteer myself to be a mentor for
this project as well.
Thanks,
Bo
On Jan 3, 2008 8:02 PM, Endre Stølsvik <En...@stolsvik.com> wrote:
> Bill Stoddard wrote:
> > Incubator PMC,
>
> >
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BlueSky
>
> This sounds like a really interesting project. I mean that in two ways:
> first, the project looks very worthwhile in itself, helping rural
> communities a couple of extra steps up the education ladder by way of
> high tech.
>
> Secondly, possibly even more important in the long term, having a
> Chinese initiated project at Apache would be a huge "political" win,
> setting precedents: Despite the vast amount of (talented) Chinese
> people, I feel that there are rather few widespread Chinese-initiated or
> -led open source software projects - at least I don't know of many (And
> if I'm making a fool of myself right there, then please give me a
> clue-by-four right now!). It would be a boon to the universe if this
> situation could be remedied as fast as possible. I actually have no
> doubt that this will happen sooner or later, but if Apache can make it
> happen sooner, possibly by helping just this project along the road to
> worldwide open source adoption, that would be a really great side-goal
> of this incubation.
>
> And yes - this would obviously have to happen in English. Acknowledging
> that Chinese is a HUGE language in terms of the number of people
> speaking it, it is still no world language in terms of the number of
> nationalities speaking it. This can present a problem for many Chinese,
> given that English education hasn't been, _as far as I understand_, a
> top priority in China until somewhat recently.
>
> Thus, to make this happen, there will probably have to be made some
> extra efforts on both sides. But this can, as mentioned, make a
> precedent - BlueSky will be an example of Chinese initiated, world wide
> developed and adopted, open source software - and I believe that the
> potential long term rewards, not only for this project, can be big.
>
>
> Endre, lurker.
>
>
> PS: Due to the scope of the project, localization to the native
> languages in the region of deployment, or the use of pictograms and
> similar, will of course be of huge importance. This focus is also shared
> with projects like Ubuntu and OLPC, as far as I understand - there might
> be interest in collaboration.
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>