[OT] [LYNCHMOB]Re: Picking a framework

[Dave Newton <ne...@pingsite.com>]

Michael Jouravlev wrote:

>On 11/9/05, pantichd@firstenergycorp.com <pa...@firstenergycorp.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Anyway, now we're moving to a new J2EE development environment and trying
>>to decide how to build apps going forward Struts is the logical choice
>>because we know it. However, one of the big issues we have with Struts
>>right now is that it still involves a lot of things to be done "by hand". I
>>don't mind but management keeps coming back at us with "how come the .NET
>>group can crank out the webapps so much faster? Why do you have to build
>>all these common components? Why does it take so long?  blah, blah, blah"
>>    
>>
>
>Why don't you (your team) just switch to .NET? This is not a sarcasm.
>  
>
Are you allowed to say that? ;)

Michael has a good point: if you're changing infrastructures anyway, and 
you already have an in-house .NET knowledge base, what is the compelling 
reason to stay with J2EE?

An why _does_ it take "so long" for your J2EE team to build 
applications? That's a legitimate question that you'll have to answer. I 
have no ability to purchase tools at this time, but by spending a small 
amount of time with a decent language (I use Ruby and/or Lisp) you can 
often automate large chunks of previously hand-driven stuff. For 
example, I run a ruby script to add an action to a webapp: it adds the 
action mapping to the struts config, creates some default things in my 
app resources, creates a JSP tile chunk and creates a tile definition, 
etc. There's still stuff to do, but not as much as before, and it keeps 
you from forgetting Really Important Stuff.

Believe me, I have little love for the .NET development experience 
(although C# is pretty nice as "normal" languages go) but...

Dave



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Re: [OT] [LYNCHMOB]Re: Picking a framework

[Yujun Liang <yu...@acm.org>]

 Struts Development can be very simple and productive if you design a POJO
based view layer.

I designed a POJO based View layer, the following are the core members of
the layer,
Page, -- Top panel
Tab, -- differentiate active tab and inactive tabs and fields on each tab
Button, -- you know
Field, -- you know
Summay, -- display free form data
ValueList,-- display tabular data
SearchCriteria -- display the search criteria for valuelist

I only have one set of JSP files and they can display as many domain objects
as you want. And the number of actions is less then the number of pages. For
example, the fields to be displayed on the summary area of the page is
defined in a property file, so the page can pick up the value of the
properties of the domain objects and display them automatically. The domain
object can be assoicated to other domain objects or composite key and the
configuration of the property is JSTL-like

pageName.summary.fields=myObject.itsCompositeKey.id,
myObject.itsChild.someProperty,myObject.anotherProperty

in the Resources Bundle file.

The input fields are also automatically generated. When Editting, instead of
display value, it creates 3 fields on the HTML form,
<input name=myObject.itsCompositeKey.id <http://myObject.itsCompositeKey.id>
>
<input name=myObject.itsChild.someProperty>
<input name=myObject.anotherProperty>

By contract, the domain objects need to be Java Beans.

So it is a relief from struggling with JSF, JSPs, JSTLs and Actions,
everything is just POJO.

Only one Action is used to get the ValueLists of million types of domain
objects.

The development is very productive considering it eliminates so many tasks.

On 11/10/05, Dave Newton <ne...@pingsite.com> wrote:
>
> Michael Jouravlev wrote:
>
> >On 11/9/05, pantichd@firstenergycorp.com <pa...@firstenergycorp.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Anyway, now we're moving to a new J2EE development environment and
> trying
> >>to decide how to build apps going forward Struts is the logical choice
> >>because we know it. However, one of the big issues we have with Struts
> >>right now is that it still involves a lot of things to be done "by
> hand". I
> >>don't mind but management keeps coming back at us with "how come the
> .NET
> >>group can crank out the webapps so much faster? Why do you have to build
> >>all these common components? Why does it take so long? blah, blah, blah"
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Why don't you (your team) just switch to .NET? This is not a sarcasm.
> >
> >
> Are you allowed to say that? ;)
>
> Michael has a good point: if you're changing infrastructures anyway, and
> you already have an in-house .NET knowledge base, what is the compelling
> reason to stay with J2EE?
>
> An why _does_ it take "so long" for your J2EE team to build
> applications? That's a legitimate question that you'll have to answer. I
> have no ability to purchase tools at this time, but by spending a small
> amount of time with a decent language (I use Ruby and/or Lisp) you can
> often automate large chunks of previously hand-driven stuff. For
> example, I run a ruby script to add an action to a webapp: it adds the
> action mapping to the struts config, creates some default things in my
> app resources, creates a JSP tile chunk and creates a tile definition,
> etc. There's still stuff to do, but not as much as before, and it keeps
> you from forgetting Really Important Stuff.
>
> Believe me, I have little love for the .NET development experience
> (although C# is pretty nice as "normal" languages go) but...
>
> Dave
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
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>
>


--
Yujun Liang
yujun.liang@acm.org

Re: [OT] Re: Picking a framework

["Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>]

Hey, your talking to an MCP and MCSD here!  I'm already straddling the
fence :)

Actually, I can't remember the last time I did anything more than a
trivial project with any MS technology.  So no, I think I'll stick around
a bit longer :)

I just didn't know they had been ported.  That *us* interesting info
either way.

-- 
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
AIM: fzammetti
Yahoo: fzammetti
MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com

On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:45 pm, Michael Jouravlev said:
> Want to jump the ship? ;-)
>
> On 11/9/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
>> Cool!  I had no idea, thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Frank W. Zammetti
>> Founder and Chief Software Architect
>> Omnytex Technologies
>> http://www.omnytex.com
>> AIM: fzammetti
>> Yahoo: fzammetti
>> MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
>>
>> On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:27 pm, Larry Meadors said:
>> > Yes.
>> >
>> > On 11/9/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:14 pm, Ted Husted said:
>> >> > We use Subversion for version control, MySQL for the
>> >> > database, iBATIS for the data access layer, and Spring.Web for
>> >> > dependency injection.
>> >>
>> >> Are there iBATIS and Spring ports to .Net?
>> >>
>> >> Frank
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Picking a framework

[Michael Jouravlev <jm...@gmail.com>]

Want to jump the ship? ;-)

On 11/9/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
> Cool!  I had no idea, thanks!
>
> --
> Frank W. Zammetti
> Founder and Chief Software Architect
> Omnytex Technologies
> http://www.omnytex.com
> AIM: fzammetti
> Yahoo: fzammetti
> MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
>
> On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:27 pm, Larry Meadors said:
> > Yes.
> >
> > On 11/9/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:14 pm, Ted Husted said:
> >> > We use Subversion for version control, MySQL for the
> >> > database, iBATIS for the data access layer, and Spring.Web for
> >> > dependency injection.
> >>
> >> Are there iBATIS and Spring ports to .Net?
> >>
> >> Frank

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Re: [OT] Re: Picking a framework

["Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>]

Cool!  I had no idea, thanks!

-- 
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
AIM: fzammetti
Yahoo: fzammetti
MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com

On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:27 pm, Larry Meadors said:
> Yes.
>
> On 11/9/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:14 pm, Ted Husted said:
>> > We use Subversion for version control, MySQL for the
>> > database, iBATIS for the data access layer, and Spring.Web for
>> > dependency injection.
>>
>> Are there iBATIS and Spring ports to .Net?
>>
>> Frank
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [OT] Re: Picking a framework

[Larry Meadors <lm...@apache.org>]

Yes.

On 11/9/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
> On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:14 pm, Ted Husted said:
> > We use Subversion for version control, MySQL for the
> > database, iBATIS for the data access layer, and Spring.Web for
> > dependency injection.
>
> Are there iBATIS and Spring ports to .Net?
>
> Frank
>
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>
>

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Re: [OT] Re: Picking a framework

["Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>]

On Wed, November 9, 2005 1:14 pm, Ted Husted said:
> We use Subversion for version control, MySQL for the
> database, iBATIS for the data access layer, and Spring.Web for
> dependency injection.

Are there iBATIS and Spring ports to .Net?

Frank

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Re: [OT] Re: Picking a framework

[Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com>]

On 11/9/05, Dave Newton <ne...@pingsite.com> wrote:
> Believe me, I have little love for the .NET development experience
> (although C# is pretty nice as "normal" languages go) but...

I've been working in .NET for about a year and a half now. Once we
started to ignore the usual examples and try to use the framework the
way Anders intended, it's become a real pleasure to use. We call a
Commons Chain port from our code-behinds and let Commands do all the
heavy-lifting. We use Subversion for version control, MySQL for the
database, iBATIS for the data access layer, and Spring.Web for
dependency injection. Once you plug JetBrains Resharper into VStudio,
I pretty much feel like I'm coding in Java again. :) The platforms are
very much alike; core skills transfer.

Of course, for a sanity check, we still use Linux boxes to run
Subversion and MySQL. We haven't done it yet, but we keep thinking of
putting Mono on one of the Linux boxes, so that we have another server
for testing. Mono turns ASP.NET into a "run anywhere" environment too.

-Ted.

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