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Posted to dev@ofbiz.apache.org by "Tim Ruppert (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2007/01/07 03:51:27 UTC
[jira] Created: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Key: OFBIZ-603
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
Issue Type: Improvement
Affects Versions: SVN trunk
Reporter: Tim Ruppert
Fix For: SVN trunk
I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Anil K Patel (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462838 ]
Anil K Patel commented on OFBIZ-603:
------------------------------------
I home address is a commercial Location.
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Tim Ruppert (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462943 ]
Tim Ruppert commented on OFBIZ-603:
-----------------------------------
Wow, if UPS can do this themselves is there really anything else to talk about? That leaves us with NO UI changes - NO data model changes - and we just have to rely on UPS to figure their own stuff out. Gosh, I think we can handle that.
Chris, did you happen to see what flag needed to be set in the UPS XML to ask them to determine the address type?
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "David E. Jones (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462912 ]
David E. Jones commented on OFBIZ-603:
--------------------------------------
If your home address is also commercial then you'd add a work address purpose to it in addition to the home address purpose.
Or, we could create a "Business Location" purpose and look for that as a qualification.
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Chris Howe (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462916 ]
Chris Howe commented on OFBIZ-603:
----------------------------------
>From the UPS website:
Help
Destination Type
Select one of the following as the type of destination to which the shipment is being sent.
Commercial
A delivery to a business location, not a home. A home can be considered a commercial location only if it has a separate entrance open to the public.
Residential
A residential delivery is defined as delivery to a location that is a home, including a business operating out of a home that does not have an entrance open to the public.
Have UPS Determine My Address Type
Based on detailed address information that you provide, UPS will determine if the address is residential or commercial.
In regards to a UPS solution, they're concerned whether they're able to walk in a door without waiting on someone to acknowledge their presence (in which case does the UPS XML spec allow you to let them determine what the location type is? alternatively, should a business trust UPS's determination? does UPS penalize a business for incorrectly identifying the location type - either by additional fee or charging for the correct location type at the time UPS statement goes out?).
In regards to a freight solution, they're concerned whether they'll be able to use an 18 wheeler or if they have to use a bobcat style trailer to reach the destination.
I'm not sure how you can reliably determine that information via PartyContactMechPurpose
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Chris Howe (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462962 ]
Chris Howe commented on OFBIZ-603:
----------------------------------
Thank you for clarifying.
For the record, I wouldn't have taken much offense if your intention had been to mock me (YMMV with others ). It was just unclear to me what distinction you were trying to make.
After looking into UPS further, it would appear as there is no API change at this time as Worldship 9.0 was made available for download on January 1st and the API spec that is offered today does not have the "03" option. I suppose a screen-scraper approach would be possible to utilize the "03" option on their website, but I hardly think that would be worth the effort to write or the inefficiency that would run on a system. I have not looked into whether their address validation tools respond with address type, so that may be another option.
As far as my second question:
>>
If we can allow UPS to determine the address type, should we let them or should we supply the information? as we may know more about our customer's location than UPS does.
<<
I looked up my home address, it came up residence, I looked up my neighbor's address and it came up commercial. So this may be a valid question to consider (or I may need to look into what kind of services my neighbor is offering ;) ).
The third question regarding checking for UPS's diligence in correcting an erroneous address type, is particularly important as if there is no change between quote and invoice, this is an honesty tax payable to UPS. (All jokes aside about the law offices of Dewey, Cheetum & Howe :) on whether you would write code to expose your client to this tax). If omitting field 49 from your XML returns the commercial quote and commercial invoice, perhaps no enhancement should be pursued.
I have heard from some that UPS doesn't correct package weights downward (ie package weighs 20 pounds, shipper claims it weighs 25) and are able to then qualify in some cases for Hundredweight (200 pounds or more) shipping rates on that shipment. If they're not verifying this, what are the chances they're verifying the residence flag? From an ethical point of view as a consultant or as an employee who's interest are you supposed to be developing solutions for UPS or your employer/client? I think I wrote a long-winded answer in college to that question that avoided actually answering the question. :)
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Chris Howe (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462946 ]
Chris Howe commented on OFBIZ-603:
----------------------------------
Tim,
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say through what looks like mocking. Please clarify as tonality doesn't come through well with written word.
As far as the XML, UPS's API may be changing with the release of Worldship 9.0. We received notice to be looking out for it in the next week or so and that there would be many improvements in it. The forms their website currently uses utilizes the input field name="destResident" with the following potential values
01 - Residential Address
02 - Commercial Address
03 - Have UPS Determine My Destination Type
However, I do realize the current API spec is using input field name="49_residential" with the only potential values of:
1 - Residential
0 - Commercial
Is it actually a required field?
I suppose my series of questions was misunderstood. To clarify,
If you can allow UPS to determine the address type, do we need to change anything?
If we can allow UPS to determine the address type, should we let them or should we supply the information? as we may know more about our customer's location than UPS does.
I'm not responsible in my company to verify that UPS's rate quote is what we ultimately get charged. What happens if you tell them that a residence is a commercial address? You get a lower rate quote, but does it get corrected when UPS send their invoice?
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Tim Ruppert (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462952 ]
Tim Ruppert commented on OFBIZ-603:
-----------------------------------
Chris, I haven't read the entire message as of yet, and will respond to that shortly, but I wanted to clarify something quickly so that you didn't get the wrong idea.
I was merely commenting on the fact that if UPS can determine this information themselves, then we should let them do that. I do apolgize if my tone came across in any way offensive - it wasn't my intention.
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "David E. Jones (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462812 ]
David E. Jones commented on OFBIZ-603:
--------------------------------------
I've thought about this a bit since almost every time a ship a package they ask about this, but strangely I haven't really received a request about this... Thinking about it now I wonder why this is, perhaps for certain bulk rates, or volume discounts rather, it doesn't matter so much.
Anyway, the natural place for this in the data model is a PartyContactMechPurpose record denoted a home or work address. In the UI this could be implemented as a check-box or something to make it easier to add this purpose.
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Chris Howe (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462837 ]
Chris Howe commented on OFBIZ-603:
----------------------------------
For the data model placement, not exactly.
There are many situations where someone would enter an address as a "work address" but for shipping, it is still considered residential by the shipping company. This should likely be a field of PostalAddress as it is a classification of the address and not a use of the address.
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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[jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-603) Shipping entry does not provide the
ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a
residence?
Posted by "Tim Ruppert (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#action_12462955 ]
Tim Ruppert commented on OFBIZ-603:
-----------------------------------
The residential/commercial flag is not in any way mandatory, but the use of it does change the price.
In a non-OFBiz installation I wrote in the past, we take in the value of business or residential from the user and pass that info along to UPS when we're getting the quote. So, I was thinking this would be a good feature to offer the user in OFBiz. I would like it if there was no further UI changes and this decision could be taken care of by UPS software - that definitely sounds the cleanest.
A non-UI change could also be inferred in the solutions that David discussed earlier, but as we have seen pointed out - they're still going to have to make some distinction somewhere.
If we have to wait for this to be provided in a future release of the software, then we need to allow the user to input this information in some format. This could be when choosing their shipping option or when entering their shipping address.
In the past we reran the ups rate request if they changed the value of this field in the UI. They could also check this before the initial rate request was run, since we performed this in the shopping cart - before any address information was even input.
> Shipping entry does not provide the ability for the user to select whether you're shipping to a business or a residence?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OFBIZ-603
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-603
> Project: Apache OFBiz (The Open for Business Project)
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
> Reporter: Tim Ruppert
> Fix For: SVN trunk
>
>
> I'm not sure about the other providers, but I know for UPS you can send along a different flag in the XML that indicates whether or not they're shipping to a residence or a business address. This DOES in fact affect the estimate that UPS provides. I believe that this option should be in the interface and should get built into the shipping feeds to the providers as people find a necessity. Thoughts?
--
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