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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Peter Junge <pe...@gmx.org> on 2011/11/20 10:33:09 UTC
oooforum.org
Hi,
is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
Peter
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Christoph Jopp <jo...@gmx.de>.
Am 20.11.2011 10:33, schrieb Peter Junge:
> Hi,
>
> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
>
> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
>
> Peter
>
Seems to be fixed now
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 2011-11-20 12:35 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>
> On 20 Nov 2011, at 16:20, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you have an actual concern about improper use of any Apache
>> marks, then I suggest you take action to ensure that the
>> appropriate ASF (P)PMC or officer knows about the *specific*
>> situation.
>
> That's great advice in the general case. Given the specific URL is
> in this thread, that you are known to follow this list pretty closely
> and are the officer in question, is there any further action
> necessary in this specific case?
>
> S.
Yes.
Merely because I read this list as a mentor does not mean that I have
the attention or brainwidth to understand what the PPMC's specific issue
is with this site, and how important it is to them.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of potentially infringing
websites on Apache marks. We, like most trademark holders, need to
prioritize which ones are most important. The most important
prioritization factor for our efforts is the input of our (P)PMCs, since
they are the group that is most affected by potential mis-use of their
specific brands.
So actually I'm looking to some of the PPMC members to let trademarks@
(which is read by many more people than just me) know what specific
issues they want addressed.
- Shane
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On 20 Nov 2011, at 16:20, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>
>
> If you have an actual concern about improper use of any Apache marks, then I suggest you take action to ensure that the appropriate ASF (P)PMC or officer knows about the *specific* situation.
That's great advice in the general case. Given the specific URL is in this thread, that you are known to follow this list pretty closely and are the officer in question, is there any further action necessary in this specific case?
S.
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 2011-11-20 6:28 AM, Simon Phipps wrote:
>
> On 20 Nov 2011, at 09:33, Peter Junge wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
>>
>> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
>
> I don't see that, but I do see unlicensed use of Apache trademarks.
>
> S.
If you have an actual concern about improper use of any Apache marks,
then I suggest you take action to ensure that the appropriate ASF (P)PMC
or officer knows about the *specific* situation.
PPMC members should review the guidelines, although that remember as a
podling you should be working with trademarks@ first before
communicating formally with any third parties:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/responsibility.html#police
- Shane
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>.
On 20 Nov 2011, at 09:33, Peter Junge wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
>
> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
I don't see that, but I do see unlicensed use of Apache trademarks.
S.
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Louis R Suárez-Potts <lo...@apache.org>.
Ed is indeed a good guy :-) and has long supported OOo and its activities (long: as in a decade).
On 2011-11-22, at 12:58 , Rob Weir wrote:
> I see from this old post that Ed thought bringing the forums together
> on the OOo domain might be a good idea:
>
> http://markmail.org/message/yjkoklovwnr3gevt
>
> Views may change over time, of course, but that sounds encouraging.
Yes. He does this work—as do the others—as a volunteer and has relatively little time to spend on it. Anything that makes it easier would likely be helpful, I'd imagine.
-louis
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
<an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
> On 11/20/2011 04:33 AM, Peter Junge wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
>>
>> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>
> The OOoForum is fully managed to Ed Buck. He has two low level
> administrators of which I am one.
>
> Ed appears to have good intention, but he is the only high level
> administrator. I do not believe that he can give others this access because
> then they would have access to the machine itself, which runs other things
> for the company hosting the forum.
>
I see from this old post that Ed thought bringing the forums together
on the OOo domain might be a good idea:
http://markmail.org/message/yjkoklovwnr3gevt
Views may change over time, of course, but that sounds encouraging.
-Rob
> Ed has stated for more than a year that he would update the forum so that
> spammers could be better prevented from accessing the forum. To date, he has
> done nothing but make promises. The user services forum was started because
> some community members desired a forum where decentralized control was
> available so that the required manpower might be available to keep things
> under control.
>
> Presently, spammers seem to use OOoForum as they desire. This is
> particularly difficult when a particular spammer opts to hit the site with
> message after message. The moderators are not able to stop a rogue poster,
> they can only react to the messages themselves. New means of preventing the
> spammers are not available without updating the forum software, so this is
> not likely to change.
>
> The volume of spam has been so great that some moderators have left. I
> rarely post to the forum any more because when I go to the forum I spend my
> time removing spam and trying to lock out spammers based on user name and
> specific IP address - which is a loosing battle.
>
>
> --
> Andrew Pitonyak
> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>
>
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>.
On 11/20/2011 04:33 AM, Peter Junge wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
>
> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
>
> Peter
>
The OOoForum is fully managed to Ed Buck. He has two low level
administrators of which I am one.
Ed appears to have good intention, but he is the only high level
administrator. I do not believe that he can give others this access
because then they would have access to the machine itself, which runs
other things for the company hosting the forum.
Ed has stated for more than a year that he would update the forum so
that spammers could be better prevented from accessing the forum. To
date, he has done nothing but make promises. The user services forum was
started because some community members desired a forum where
decentralized control was available so that the required manpower might
be available to keep things under control.
Presently, spammers seem to use OOoForum as they desire. This is
particularly difficult when a particular spammer opts to hit the site
with message after message. The moderators are not able to stop a rogue
poster, they can only react to the messages themselves. New means of
preventing the spammers are not available without updating the forum
software, so this is not likely to change.
The volume of spam has been so great that some moderators have left. I
rarely post to the forum any more because when I go to the forum I spend
my time removing spam and trying to lock out spammers based on user name
and specific IP address - which is a loosing battle.
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
If you want to discuss with the oooforum owner, then just do it. Before creating the http://user.services.openoffice.org forum, there have been discussions during several months to avoid creating a new forum and splitting the effort; see also http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=249 . The creation of the new forum is then a consequence of a dead end. Note that I don't recall Clayton being admin of oooforum at all.
Why should they add "non official"? What prevents them to label it "The OpenOffice.org forum"? During years, it has been indeed the main resource.
Hagar
Le dim. 20 nov. 2011 08:45:16 CET, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> a écrit :
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts
> <ls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
>> for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
>> Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>>
>
> I certainly see an opportunity here. This is one example of somethng
> I see in many other parts of the project: We'll all be far more
> successful if we but aside ancient grudges and divisions and try to
> work together at Apache. We need to acknowledge that the past is past
> and we have a new opportunity now to grow a community that is more
> diverse and more open than ever before.
>
>
>> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
>> not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
>> furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
>> administered by capable community members.
>>
>> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>>
>
> I don't see the benefits of having two different forum installations
> at Apache. But is there anyway we could combine efforts toward a
> single forum at Apache?
>
> I think we could argue that a combined effort would:
>
> 1) Attract more users
>
> 2) Attract more volunteers to answer questions
>
> 3) Attract more moderators and admins to ensure the quality of the
> user experience
>
> 4) Would grow a larger infobase of questions and answers
>
> 5) Would eliminate redundant effort
>
>> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
>> Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
>> possible he may be interested in working with some others.
>>
>
> It would be worth having a conversation about how he sees the world,
> and whether he thinks it is worth while to explore the possibilities.
>
>> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
>> logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
>> list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
>> actionable.
>>
>
> Maybe start with just opening the conversation, to see whether he is
> receptive to further discussions. If we work it too much on our side
> first, that may be seen as us dictating terms. But if we start with,
> "We'd like to chat about the current situation with two forums and how
> we might best improve things for the benefit our our mutual users",
> this might be more attractive.
>
> -Rob
>
>> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
>> do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
>> those able and inclined read these lists.
>>
>> -louis
>>
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <ls...@gmail.com>.
Hi
On 20 November 2011 13:02, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org> wrote:
> I suspect Louis was talking about the OpenOffice.org Community Forums that are already hosted on Apache.
Actually, I was talking about both: the oooforums that were initially
not on Apache, I believe, was my focus. They were maintained by us,
specifically Clayton and then some others employed by Oracle and
working out of the Hamburg office, but were not hosted per se by
Oracle, though the licensing regime was identical, much to a lot of
people's dislike.
>
> Since oooforums has never been hosted by Sun/Oracle, it is a bit dicey how some sort of merger might happen and why.
>
> On the other hand, neither OO.o Community and oooforums have a German Language forum. That is at http://www.oooforum.de aka de.OpenOffice.inf
There used to be such: now it's, uhm, elsewhere.
o. OpenOffice.info also has a wiki and other European language
coverage too (Danish and Czech seem to be operating and not covered by
OO.o Community Forums).
>
> Some degree of informal Federation and cross-communication might be possible. Consolidation seems rather premature and such an offer might even be viewed as hostile.
We—or I—sketched out precisely such a federation a long time ago.
Didn't go far with Sun. The idea was that if a simple level of
compliance was reached, then there ought to be no reason not to
include the site(s) in the domain. License should be a vehicle for
market growth and contribution, not a shibboleth for exclusion.
Apache no doubt has superb systems already in place that we can benefit from….?
Louis
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 05:45
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: oooforum.org
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts
> <ls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
>> for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
>> Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>>
>
> I certainly see an opportunity here. This is one example of somethng
> I see in many other parts of the project: We'll all be far more
> successful if we but aside ancient grudges and divisions and try to
> work together at Apache. We need to acknowledge that the past is past
> and we have a new opportunity now to grow a community that is more
> diverse and more open than ever before.
>
>
>> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
>> not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
>> furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
>> administered by capable community members.
>>
>> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>>
>
> I don't see the benefits of having two different forum installations
> at Apache. But is there anyway we could combine efforts toward a
> single forum at Apache?
>
> I think we could argue that a combined effort would:
>
> 1) Attract more users
>
> 2) Attract more volunteers to answer questions
>
> 3) Attract more moderators and admins to ensure the quality of the
> user experience
>
> 4) Would grow a larger infobase of questions and answers
>
> 5) Would eliminate redundant effort
>
>> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
>> Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
>> possible he may be interested in working with some others.
>>
>
> It would be worth having a conversation about how he sees the world,
> and whether he thinks it is worth while to explore the possibilities.
>
>> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
>> logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
>> list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
>> actionable.
>>
>
> Maybe start with just opening the conversation, to see whether he is
> receptive to further discussions. If we work it too much on our side
> first, that may be seen as us dictating terms. But if we start with,
> "We'd like to chat about the current situation with two forums and how
> we might best improve things for the benefit our our mutual users",
> this might be more attractive.
>
> -Rob
>
>> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
>> do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
>> those able and inclined read these lists.
>>
>> -louis
>>
>
>
RE: oooforum.org
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Jeez rob, I know what the thread is about. I've known about oooforum.org since discussions with the OO.o Community Forums volunteers began.
I suspect Louis misunderstood the thread. I am also responding to your suggestion of possible consolidation.
I don't understand how anything I've said led to your abrupt misunderstanding. Or is it just because I said it?
And technical feasibility is the least of the issues around consolidation, federation, whatever.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:09
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: oooforum.org
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<de...@acm.org> wrote:
> I suspect Louis was talking about the OpenOffice.org Community Forums that are already hosted on Apache.
>
The thread is titled "oooforum.org". That's what we're talking about
about. If you think you are talking about something else, then maybe
start a new thread.
> Since oooforums has never been hosted by Sun/Oracle, it is a bit dicey how some sort of merger might happen and why.
>
I listed the reasons why this could be a good idea. Since
oooforum.org is also running phBB, the technical side of a merger does
not seem beyond the realm of possibility.
> On the other hand, neither OO.o Community and oooforums have a German Language forum. That is at http://www.oooforum.de aka de.OpenOffice.info. OpenOffice.info also has a wiki and other European language coverage too (Danish and Czech seem to be operating and not covered by OO.o Community Forums).
>
> Some degree of informal Federation and cross-communication might be possible. Consolidation seems rather premature and such an offer might even be viewed as hostile.
>
I assuming we would not be talking to idiots. Offering to work
together should even be taken as a hostile action. It is entirely
pro-community and pro-user.
-Rob
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 05:45
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: oooforum.org
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts
> <ls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
>> for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
>> Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>>
>
> I certainly see an opportunity here. This is one example of somethng
> I see in many other parts of the project: We'll all be far more
> successful if we but aside ancient grudges and divisions and try to
> work together at Apache. We need to acknowledge that the past is past
> and we have a new opportunity now to grow a community that is more
> diverse and more open than ever before.
>
>
>> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
>> not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
>> furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
>> administered by capable community members.
>>
>> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>>
>
> I don't see the benefits of having two different forum installations
> at Apache. But is there anyway we could combine efforts toward a
> single forum at Apache?
>
> I think we could argue that a combined effort would:
>
> 1) Attract more users
>
> 2) Attract more volunteers to answer questions
>
> 3) Attract more moderators and admins to ensure the quality of the
> user experience
>
> 4) Would grow a larger infobase of questions and answers
>
> 5) Would eliminate redundant effort
>
>> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
>> Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
>> possible he may be interested in working with some others.
>>
>
> It would be worth having a conversation about how he sees the world,
> and whether he thinks it is worth while to explore the possibilities.
>
>> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
>> logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
>> list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
>> actionable.
>>
>
> Maybe start with just opening the conversation, to see whether he is
> receptive to further discussions. If we work it too much on our side
> first, that may be seen as us dictating terms. But if we start with,
> "We'd like to chat about the current situation with two forums and how
> we might best improve things for the benefit our our mutual users",
> this might be more attractive.
>
> -Rob
>
>> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
>> do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
>> those able and inclined read these lists.
>>
>> -louis
>>
>
>
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
+1 as well, your thread really is not a good description of the thought
process here, nor is the reference to the "Apache group" (which means
something different) a good idea.
It would be really, really helpful to find a way for PPMC members on
this list to work directly with the server admins for oooforum to talk;
this should be a positive engagement, not a negative one.
- Shane
On 2011-11-22 9:40 AM, RGB ES wrote:
> 2011/11/22 Andrew Douglas Pitonyak<an...@pitonyak.org>
>
>>
>> I posted this to their forum, see if it may motivate some people there
>>
>> http://www.oooforum.org/forum/**viewtopic.phtml?p=456167#**456167<http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?p=456167#456167>
>>
>>
>>
> I don't think that some emails on the AOO mailing list can be considered as
> an "Apache petition". There is nothing "official" on this thread, IMO, just
> people worried about the situation and some random thoughts.
> I think you need to rephrase your post.
>
> Ricardo
>
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2011/11/22 Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>
>
> I posted this to their forum, see if it may motivate some people there
>
> http://www.oooforum.org/forum/**viewtopic.phtml?p=456167#**456167<http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?p=456167#456167>
>
>
>
I don't think that some emails on the AOO mailing list can be considered as
an "Apache petition". There is nothing "official" on this thread, IMO, just
people worried about the situation and some random thoughts.
I think you need to rephrase your post.
Ricardo
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Tue, 2011-11-22 at 09:31 -0500, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote:
> I posted this to their forum, see if it may motivate some people there
>
> http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?p=456167#456167
>
Hi Andrew,
I added some comments to the forum post above.
For those that don't follow the forums I'll include the full text of
those comments here:
-------------------------------------
Hello Andrew,
Noticed your comment to the Apache OpenOffice mailing list and your link
to this post.
I just wanted to add some personal comments to what you posted.
First - I did not see the images that sparked this either, but from what
I can gather they hit a nerve with a few individuals.
Second - it is true that a couple of individuals, whom I don't believe
have any history with any of the forums, made comments on the Apache
OpenOffice mailing list along the lines you describe - HOWEVER - there
was, to my reading of the list, no uptake to the idea at all.
Also - the Apache OpenOffice group has been dealing with some issues
concercning another website, one that has nothing to do with the forum
here, and I think everyone was a bit on edge, a bit more rhetoric flying
around then is really healthy - so what I think is that the timing on
this particular 'event', happening while peoples emotions where already
heightened was a large contributing factor to most of the comments.
That all I wanted to add to this particular subject.
Best wishes,
Drew
----------------
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>.
I posted this to their forum, see if it may motivate some people there
http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?p=456167#456167
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<de...@acm.org> wrote:
> I suspect Louis was talking about the OpenOffice.org Community Forums that are already hosted on Apache.
>
The thread is titled "oooforum.org". That's what we're talking about
about. If you think you are talking about something else, then maybe
start a new thread.
> Since oooforums has never been hosted by Sun/Oracle, it is a bit dicey how some sort of merger might happen and why.
>
I listed the reasons why this could be a good idea. Since
oooforum.org is also running phBB, the technical side of a merger does
not seem beyond the realm of possibility.
> On the other hand, neither OO.o Community and oooforums have a German Language forum. That is at http://www.oooforum.de aka de.OpenOffice.info. OpenOffice.info also has a wiki and other European language coverage too (Danish and Czech seem to be operating and not covered by OO.o Community Forums).
>
> Some degree of informal Federation and cross-communication might be possible. Consolidation seems rather premature and such an offer might even be viewed as hostile.
>
I assuming we would not be talking to idiots. Offering to work
together should even be taken as a hostile action. It is entirely
pro-community and pro-user.
-Rob
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 05:45
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: oooforum.org
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts
> <ls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
>> for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
>> Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>>
>
> I certainly see an opportunity here. This is one example of somethng
> I see in many other parts of the project: We'll all be far more
> successful if we but aside ancient grudges and divisions and try to
> work together at Apache. We need to acknowledge that the past is past
> and we have a new opportunity now to grow a community that is more
> diverse and more open than ever before.
>
>
>> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
>> not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
>> furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
>> administered by capable community members.
>>
>> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>>
>
> I don't see the benefits of having two different forum installations
> at Apache. But is there anyway we could combine efforts toward a
> single forum at Apache?
>
> I think we could argue that a combined effort would:
>
> 1) Attract more users
>
> 2) Attract more volunteers to answer questions
>
> 3) Attract more moderators and admins to ensure the quality of the
> user experience
>
> 4) Would grow a larger infobase of questions and answers
>
> 5) Would eliminate redundant effort
>
>> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
>> Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
>> possible he may be interested in working with some others.
>>
>
> It would be worth having a conversation about how he sees the world,
> and whether he thinks it is worth while to explore the possibilities.
>
>> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
>> logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
>> list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
>> actionable.
>>
>
> Maybe start with just opening the conversation, to see whether he is
> receptive to further discussions. If we work it too much on our side
> first, that may be seen as us dictating terms. But if we start with,
> "We'd like to chat about the current situation with two forums and how
> we might best improve things for the benefit our our mutual users",
> this might be more attractive.
>
> -Rob
>
>> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
>> do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
>> those able and inclined read these lists.
>>
>> -louis
>>
>
>
RE: oooforum.org
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
I suspect Louis was talking about the OpenOffice.org Community Forums that are already hosted on Apache.
Since oooforums has never been hosted by Sun/Oracle, it is a bit dicey how some sort of merger might happen and why.
On the other hand, neither OO.o Community and oooforums have a German Language forum. That is at http://www.oooforum.de aka de.OpenOffice.info. OpenOffice.info also has a wiki and other European language coverage too (Danish and Czech seem to be operating and not covered by OO.o Community Forums).
Some degree of informal Federation and cross-communication might be possible. Consolidation seems rather premature and such an offer might even be viewed as hostile.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 05:45
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: oooforum.org
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts
<ls...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
> for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
> Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>
I certainly see an opportunity here. This is one example of somethng
I see in many other parts of the project: We'll all be far more
successful if we but aside ancient grudges and divisions and try to
work together at Apache. We need to acknowledge that the past is past
and we have a new opportunity now to grow a community that is more
diverse and more open than ever before.
> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
> not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
> furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
> administered by capable community members.
>
> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>
I don't see the benefits of having two different forum installations
at Apache. But is there anyway we could combine efforts toward a
single forum at Apache?
I think we could argue that a combined effort would:
1) Attract more users
2) Attract more volunteers to answer questions
3) Attract more moderators and admins to ensure the quality of the
user experience
4) Would grow a larger infobase of questions and answers
5) Would eliminate redundant effort
> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
> Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
> possible he may be interested in working with some others.
>
It would be worth having a conversation about how he sees the world,
and whether he thinks it is worth while to explore the possibilities.
> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
> logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
> list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
> actionable.
>
Maybe start with just opening the conversation, to see whether he is
receptive to further discussions. If we work it too much on our side
first, that may be seen as us dictating terms. But if we start with,
"We'd like to chat about the current situation with two forums and how
we might best improve things for the benefit our our mutual users",
this might be more attractive.
-Rob
> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
> do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
> those able and inclined read these lists.
>
> -louis
>
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts
<ls...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
> for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
> Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>
I certainly see an opportunity here. This is one example of somethng
I see in many other parts of the project: We'll all be far more
successful if we but aside ancient grudges and divisions and try to
work together at Apache. We need to acknowledge that the past is past
and we have a new opportunity now to grow a community that is more
diverse and more open than ever before.
> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
> not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
> furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
> administered by capable community members.
>
> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>
I don't see the benefits of having two different forum installations
at Apache. But is there anyway we could combine efforts toward a
single forum at Apache?
I think we could argue that a combined effort would:
1) Attract more users
2) Attract more volunteers to answer questions
3) Attract more moderators and admins to ensure the quality of the
user experience
4) Would grow a larger infobase of questions and answers
5) Would eliminate redundant effort
> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
> Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
> possible he may be interested in working with some others.
>
It would be worth having a conversation about how he sees the world,
and whether he thinks it is worth while to explore the possibilities.
> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
> logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
> list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
> actionable.
>
Maybe start with just opening the conversation, to see whether he is
receptive to further discussions. If we work it too much on our side
first, that may be seen as us dictating terms. But if we start with,
"We'd like to chat about the current situation with two forums and how
we might best improve things for the benefit our our mutual users",
this might be more attractive.
-Rob
> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
> do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
> those able and inclined read these lists.
>
> -louis
>
RE: oooforum.org
Posted by Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: luispo@gmail.com [mailto:luispo@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Louis
> Suárez-Potts
> Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011 9:24 PM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: oooforum@free.fr
> Subject: Re: oooforum.org
>
> Hi,
>
>
> On 20 November 2011 05:38, RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2011/11/20 FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>
> >
> >> Hello,
> >> It's a disaster for the OOo Community. These pictures are prohibited
> >> in many countries.
> >> If this forum can't be administrated correctly.
> >> I suggest to contact the hoster to close it.
> >>
> >> ----- Mail original -----
> >> De: "Peter Junge" <pe...@gmx.org>
> >> À: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Envoyé: Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 10:33:09
> >> Objet: oooforum.org
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
> >>
> >> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >
> > It's not a new situation. In fact the Community forums that are now
> > hosted by Apache on the AOO project started four years ago because of
> > differences with the oooforum administrator…
>
> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin for the
> forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with Oracle and
> still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>
> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but not
> only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are furthermore
> pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be administered by
> capable community members.
>
> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>
> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if Clayton would help
> with the transition, and even maintenance. It's possible he may be
> interested in working with some others.
What is wrong with the Forums (http://user.services.openoffice.org) already here at Apache?
We don’t need to be porting over a 2nd forums for the same project.
Gav...
>
> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the logical lists
> and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a list (and list of lists) of
> things that are needed, wanted, and actionable.
>
> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can do it,
> or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of those able and
> inclined read these lists.
>
> -louis
>
>
> >
> > Ricardo
> >
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:18 PM, "Pavel Janík" <Pa...@Janik.cz> wrote:
>> > I am wondering why we care on oooforum.org here when we have nothing
>> > to do with it?
>>
>>
>> We care about the good name of OpenOffice.org?
>
> Agreed, OOo ecosystem health is on-topic here.
If there is a trademark problem, mail trademarks@.
If there is a misleading press statement, one can mail the press
agency and hope they will fix it.
You can even mail the owner of this forum, but honestly, you can't
care on any thirdparty website out there and as long as the trademarks
are fine, what do you want to do?
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
https://www.timeandbill.de
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
On Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:18 PM, "Pavel Janík" <Pa...@Janik.cz> wrote:
> > I am wondering why we care on oooforum.org here when we have nothing
> > to do with it?
>
>
> We care about the good name of OpenOffice.org?
Agreed, OOo ecosystem health is on-topic here.
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Pavel Janík <Pa...@Janik.cz>.
> I am wondering why we care on oooforum.org here when we have nothing
> to do with it?
We care about the good name of OpenOffice.org?
--
Pavel Janík
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
On Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:30 PM, "RGB ES" <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Indeed. If something, we need to ask oooforum admin to write "The *non
> official* openoffice.org forum" on the site header.
Feel free to follow up on trademarks@ cc ooo-private@
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2011/11/20 Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:05 PM, RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 20 November 2011 05:38, RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > 2011/11/20 FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>
> > I think you are confusing oooforum.org with
> > user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
> > oooforum is a non official forum run for several years for someone
> external
> > to the project.
> > user.services.openoffice.org forums, now under AOO umbrella, was started
> > for users that did not like the way oooforum.org were managed.
>
> I think Gavin meant that we don't need to migrate oooforum.org to the
> ASF, as it has been suggested in this thread.
>
> I was answering to Louis Suárez-Potts.
> I am wondering why we care on oooforum.org here when we have nothing
> to do with it?
>
>
Indeed. If something, we need to ask oooforum admin to write "The *non
official* openoffice.org forum" on the site header.
Ricardo
PD: now the spam changed to food, it seems... lol
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:05 PM, RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 20 November 2011 05:38, RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 2011/11/20 FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>
> I think you are confusing oooforum.org with
> user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
> oooforum is a non official forum run for several years for someone external
> to the project.
> user.services.openoffice.org forums, now under AOO umbrella, was started
> for users that did not like the way oooforum.org were managed.
I think Gavin meant that we don't need to migrate oooforum.org to the
ASF, as it has been suggested in this thread.
I am wondering why we care on oooforum.org here when we have nothing
to do with it?
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
https://www.timeandbill.de
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2011/11/20 Louis Suárez-Potts <ls...@gmail.com>
> Hi,
>
>
> On 20 November 2011 05:38, RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2011/11/20 FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>
> >
> >> Hello,
> >> It's a disaster for the OOo Community. These pictures are prohibited in
> >> many countries.
> >> If this forum can't be administrated correctly.
> >> I suggest to contact the hoster to close it.
> >>
> >> ----- Mail original -----
> >> De: "Peter Junge" <pe...@gmx.org>
> >> À: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Envoyé: Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 10:33:09
> >> Objet: oooforum.org
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
> >>
> >> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >
> > It's not a new situation. In fact the Community forums that are now
> hosted
> > by Apache on the AOO project started four years ago because of
> differences
> > with the oooforum administrator…
>
> Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
> for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
> Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
>
> The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
> not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
> furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
> administered by capable community members.
>
> Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
>
> If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
> Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
> possible he may be interested in working with some others.
>
> What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
> logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
> list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
> actionable.
>
> Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
> do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
> those able and inclined read these lists.
>
> -louis
>
>
> >
> > Ricardo
> >
>
I think you are confusing oooforum.org with
user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
oooforum is a non official forum run for several years for someone external
to the project.
user.services.openoffice.org forums, now under AOO umbrella, was started
for users that did not like the way oooforum.org were managed.
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <ls...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 20 November 2011 05:38, RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/11/20 FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>
>
>> Hello,
>> It's a disaster for the OOo Community. These pictures are prohibited in
>> many countries.
>> If this forum can't be administrated correctly.
>> I suggest to contact the hoster to close it.
>>
>> ----- Mail original -----
>> De: "Peter Junge" <pe...@gmx.org>
>> À: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Envoyé: Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 10:33:09
>> Objet: oooforum.org
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
>>
>> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>
> It's not a new situation. In fact the Community forums that are now hosted
> by Apache on the AOO project started four years ago because of differences
> with the oooforum administrator…
Let's take this then as an opportunity? Clayton C used to be the admin
for the forums (oooforums) but with Oracle's departure—he was with
Oracle and still may be—there was, to put it mildly, a hitch.
The OO forums are immensely important. They are mainly for users but
not only, though that's clearly their primary user base. They are
furthermore pretty much user-initiated, and thus arguably could be
administered by capable community members.
Was the infrastructure also ported over to Apache? Or will it be?
If it will be, and if we want to continue with it, I can ask if
Clayton would help with the transition, and even maintenance. It's
possible he may be interested in working with some others.
What we need here, and I would like to issue a call for this to the
logical lists and other public fora ("twitter" comes to mind), is a
list (and list of lists) of things that are needed, wanted, and
actionable.
Right now, lots needs doing but those who can do don't know they can
do it, or for that matter where, and using what tools. Not all of
those able and inclined read these lists.
-louis
>
> Ricardo
>
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2011/11/20 FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>
> Hello,
> It's a disaster for the OOo Community. These pictures are prohibited in
> many countries.
> If this forum can't be administrated correctly.
> I suggest to contact the hoster to close it.
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "Peter Junge" <pe...@gmx.org>
> À: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Envoyé: Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 10:33:09
> Objet: oooforum.org
>
> Hi,
>
> is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
>
> It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
>
> Peter
>
It's not a new situation. In fact the Community forums that are now hosted
by Apache on the AOO project started four years ago because of differences
with the oooforum administrator...
Ricardo
Re: oooforum.org
Posted by FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>.
Hello,
It's a disaster for the OOo Community. These pictures are prohibited in many countries.
If this forum can't be administrated correctly.
I suggest to contact the hoster to close it.
----- Mail original -----
De: "Peter Junge" <pe...@gmx.org>
À: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Envoyé: Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 10:33:09
Objet: oooforum.org
Hi,
is there any admin of oooforum.org around here?
It's getting spamed with really disgusting content on the front page.
Peter