You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Mark Leicester <ma...@efurbishment.com> on 2005/04/04 01:50:11 UTC
What is the community looking for?
Hi everyone,
I'm attempting to analyse what the Cocoon community wants from itself.
Examining the referrer logs for PlanetCocoon (last week of March)
yielded the following top 30 search terms:
9 cforms
7 torsten curdt
6 how to get label value bean value in javascript
4 adam ratcliffe
4 cform cocoon
4 cocoon createbinding
4 cowarp
4 i18n cocoon
4 javaflow cocoon
4 planetcocoon
3 bugzilla 34077
3 calculator jxtemplate
3 cannot compile cocoon
3 cocoon fom
3 content is not allowed in prolog
3 ehcache
3 hibernate cforms cocoon
3 jxtemplate
3 nullpointerexception
3 ralph goers
3 xquerytransformer
3 yves vindevogel
2 _i18n cocoon
2 antonio gallardo
2 anyware technologies cocoon plugin
2 avalon-framework leak
2 bruno dumon
2 build failed: could not create task or type of type: if.
2 caching cocoon
2 cforms cocoon
In a very rough and subjective analysis, it seems to me that Cocooners
are looking for information about:
Cforms 35
People 21
Errors 16
Flow 7
I18n 6
Caching 5
Ideas:
1. Cocoon Forms examples. I am going to add more recipes on
PlanetCocoon, and port the samples to documents. Is there anyone else
working on this?
2. Information about cocoon developers. Let's create people pages,
showing who has done what, indicating expertise, links to blogs etc. At
the moment we have the personal pages on the Wiki. I'll start with
those.
3. Errors. Perhaps we could create a hotline, where (in connection with
the suggestion in 2.) we can better target queries at people with the
ability to answer them? Establish a collective of cforms experts, etc.
Do you think the results of the above are typical? What are Cocoon
bloggers finding in their referrer logs? Do we have access to the
Apache site logs? What do people think about using this approach to
work out priority topics to document?
Cheers,
Mark
Re: What is the community looking for?
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org>.
> 2. Information about cocoon developers. Let's create people pages,
> showing who has done what, indicating expertise, links to blogs etc. At
> the moment we have the personal pages on the Wiki. I'll start with those.
> 3. Errors. Perhaps we could create a hotline, where (in connection with
> the suggestion in 2.) we can better target queries at people with the
> ability to answer them? Establish a collective of cforms experts, etc.
Hm... since we want people to use the mailing list and *not*
contact people directly I am not so sure whether this is a
really good idea.
> Do you think the results of the above are typical?
I reckon a single week is not really enough data to say
something like that ;)
> Do we have access to the Apache
> site logs?
I remember Vadim did analyse the website logs sometime.
> What do people think about using this approach to work out
> priority topics to document?
Interesting :)
cheers
--
Torsten
Re: What is the community looking for?
Posted by Mark Leicester <ma...@efurbishment.com>.
Hi Reinhard,
Whatever we come up with will be donated back to the official
documentation!
Regards,
Mark
On 4 Apr 2005, at 08:19, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Mark Leicester wrote:
>
>> 1. Cocoon Forms examples. I am going to add more recipes on
>> PlanetCocoon, and port the samples to documents. Is there anyone else
>> working on this?
>
> As some others pointed out on the users list, please consider
> contributing these docs to the official Cocoon documentation. Writing
> docs for Cocoon 2.2 has become much easier
> (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/22NewDocumentsGeneration) as HTML40 is
> the source format of the docs.
>
> --
> Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
> {Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
>
> web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Re: What is the community looking for?
Posted by Mark Leicester <ma...@efurbishment.com>.
I also meant to ask:
What is the status of the samples at http://www.cocooncenter.de/,
http://www.cocooncenter.org/ ?
Mark
On 4 Apr 2005, at 08:19, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Mark Leicester wrote:
>
>> 1. Cocoon Forms examples. I am going to add more recipes on
>> PlanetCocoon, and port the samples to documents. Is there anyone else
>> working on this?
>
> As some others pointed out on the users list, please consider
> contributing these docs to the official Cocoon documentation. Writing
> docs for Cocoon 2.2 has become much easier
> (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/22NewDocumentsGeneration) as HTML40 is
> the source format of the docs.
>
> --
> Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
> {Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
>
> web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Re: What is the community looking for?
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Mark Leicester wrote:
> 1. Cocoon Forms examples. I am going to add more recipes on
> PlanetCocoon, and port the samples to documents. Is there anyone else
> working on this?
As some others pointed out on the users list, please consider contributing these
docs to the official Cocoon documentation. Writing docs for Cocoon 2.2 has
become much easier (http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/22NewDocumentsGeneration) as
HTML40 is the source format of the docs.
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: What is the community looking for?
Posted by Andrew Savory <an...@luminas.co.uk>.
Hi,
On 4 Apr 2005, at 23:37, Mark Leicester wrote:
> So here's my vision of a site devoted to the marketing of Apache
> Cocoon: http://www.spreadcocoon.com:
> * high search engine visibility;
> * a repository of Apache Cocoon success stories;
These two particularly are things that could/should be applied to
http://cocoon.apache.org/
> * a catalogue of live Apache Cocoon web applications;
... cocoondev.org provides a repository and demos for some of these
apps, but I agree seeing more running "in the wild" would be
interesting.
> * an environment to discuss issues of visual identity;
... like the mailing list? ;-)
> * a repository of press clippings;
Nice idea.
> * site-wide search;
Google search of cocoon.apache.org is already there iirc
> * a collaborative space to help formulate press releases;
... like the wiki? ;-)
> * a noticeboard to raise awareness of community events;
... like the wiki? ;-)
> * accessible, standards based design - maximum inclusion;
This is coming with the 2.2 docs I think
> * a way to publicise key personalities and participating
> organisations.
... publicising key personalities is something that's quite avoided by
the Cocoon community, as it has a detrimental effect on the community.
I don't dislike your ideas, but I do think many of them are already
being achieved by what we have in place, are planned to be fixed in the
near future, or are not already there for community / technical /
whatever reasons.
Cheers,
Andrew.
--
Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited
Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658 Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
Web: http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/
Re: What is the community looking for?
Posted by Mark Leicester <ma...@efurbishment.com>.
Hi Sylvain,
Let me start by saying I have no desire to precipitate a fate such as
this for the Cocoon community:
<http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?
mode=dino&destruction=massive&lang=en&url=http://cocoon.apache.org>
Instead, this is what I want:
I want to find richer and better ways for online communities to
interact. I want to experiment with what I (and other energetic souls)
can offer the online Cocoon community, utilising the wealth of new
approaches to online communication.
One example: Cocoon developers are writing more and more in blog form.
It's great stuff! Sylvain, you write about Cocoon 2.2, how it "will
rock!". I want to everyone to hear it. Posts like this[1] give the
community vitality and, crucially, a vision. People make projects. I
think Cocoon's bloggers should be front and central on the Cocoon
project site. Feed aggregation is a feature of PlanetCocoon.
Another example: Sarah Burri Windler writes[2] "Based on the very
useful and well written tutorial 'Write a Custom Generator' from Geoff
Howard I'm on the way to my first ApplicationGenerator and it's a great
feeling!" She follows this up with two remarks noting her experiences
and what needs updating in the tutorial. A respondent then invites
Sarah to add a patch to bugzilla to help update the documentation. Know
what? Sarah did! This, despite the fact that there are more
instructions for Bugzilla[4] than for the zero gravity toilet in
2001[5]. Don't get me wrong, Bugzilla works, but there's got to be a
better way for documentation patches. With PlanetCocoon, comments can
be submitted to book pages[6]. Authors can be (automatically)
subscribed and notified. It's easy, like a lot of the rest of the web.
So here's my vision of a site devoted to the marketing of Apache
Cocoon: http://www.spreadcocoon.com:
* high search engine visibility;
* a repository of Apache Cocoon success stories;
* a catalogue of live Apache Cocoon web applications;
* an environment to discuss issues of visual identity;
* a repository of press clippings;
* site-wide search;
* a collaborative space to help formulate press releases;
* a noticeboard to raise awareness of community events;
* accessible, standards based design - maximum inclusion;
* a way to publicise key personalities and participating
organisations.
Here's my other vision of a site devoted to Apache Cocoon developers,
offering:
* high search engine visibility;
* multilateral expression through rich means such as blogs, forums,
pages, polls;
* responsiveness to issues - with a personal touch - caring if you
like;
* the ability to collaboratively author structured documentation;
* attractively formatted code snippets / recipes;
* aggregated newsfeeds, drawing on the personal blogs of notable
Cocoon developers;
* site-wide search;
* taxonomy / folksonomy, modern information classification,
management etc.;
* integration with other community sites such as del.icio.us,
flickr, 43things, upcoming etc.;
* accessible, standards based design - maximum inclusion;
* XML feeds for all content.
I sense a fragility about Cocoon that I like. I want to help look after
it, and help its community to grow. I want to get this line rising:
<http://people.apache.org/~coar/mlists.html#cocoon.apache.org>
If you like my vision too, why not sign up to either site, or both
even! If you've written to either users or dev in the last few weeks
your account has already been created. Use "Request new password" to
get a password. Then you can customise your account how you wish (even
enter your birthday on the personal pages if you like[7]). Finally, why
not take a look at the tool I'm using to build the site:
<http://drupal.org>? It's not Cocoon. But then Cocoon is not Drupal. I
find lots to admire in both.
Please be amused, not suspicious.
Best regards,
Mark
[1] http://www.anyware-tech.com/blogs/sylvain/archives/000171.html
[2] http://www.planetcocoon.com/node/1198
[3] http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=34283
[4] http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/howto/howto-bugzilla.html
[5] http://www.underview.com/2001/funbits/zerog.html
[6] http://www.planetcocoon.com/node/1209
[7]
http://mail-archives.eu.apache.org/mod_mbox/cocoon-dev/200301.mbox/
%3c3E2BBD33.8030601@apache.org%3e
On 4 Apr 2005, at 09:02, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Mark Leicester wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I'm attempting to analyse what the Cocoon community wants from
>> itself. Examining the referrer logs for PlanetCocoon (last week of
>> March) yielded the following top 30 search terms:
>
>
> Mark, I certainly value your effort, but what is PlanetCocoon? What
> are these forums that are fed with the mailing lists? Is it a
> gmane-like system?
>
> As stated on the main page it is "Confusing Apache Cocoon developers
> with yet another source of documentation". And probably users too ;-)
>
> So what about discussing your objectives here to have better
> cooperation with the community?
>
> Sylvain
>
> --
> Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
> http://apache.org/~sylvain http://anyware-tech.com
> Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director
>
Re: What is the community looking for?
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Mark Leicester wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm attempting to analyse what the Cocoon community wants from itself.
> Examining the referrer logs for PlanetCocoon (last week of March)
> yielded the following top 30 search terms:
Mark, I certainly value your effort, but what is PlanetCocoon? What are
these forums that are fed with the mailing lists? Is it a gmane-like system?
As stated on the main page it is "Confusing Apache Cocoon developers
with yet another source of documentation". And probably users too ;-)
So what about discussing your objectives here to have better cooperation
with the community?
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://apache.org/~sylvain http://anyware-tech.com
Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director