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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com> on 2005/11/04 02:20:38 UTC
Struts 1.3 Naming
On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
> BTW, was "Struts
> Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most intuitive
> name for what we are trying to do.
IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
Version Debate. :)
So far we have
- Struts Classic
- Struts Core Library
- Struts Distribution
Any other options, and which do you prefer?
--
Wendy
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Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by netsql <ne...@roomity.com>.
He, he.
Michael Jouravlev wrote:
>
> Struts Original
> Struts Unoriginal
> Struts Legacy
> Struts Impreza
>
--
thx,
.V
Your Roomity Broadband Community <http://roomity.com/demo.jsp>
cell: 917 825 3035 in DFW
email: netsql at roomity.com
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Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Michael Jouravlev <jm...@gmail.com>.
On 11/3/05, Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
>
> > BTW, was "Struts
> > Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most intuitive
> > name for what we are trying to do.
>
> IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
> Version Debate. :)
>
> So far we have
> - Struts Classic
> - Struts Core Library
> - Struts Distribution
>
> Any other options, and which do you prefer?
Struts Original
Struts Unoriginal
Struts Legacy
Struts Impreza
Struts Distribution is tautological, it IS a distribution, why put it
in a name? "I downloaded distribution of Struts Distribution". Not
sure about that...
Is it Friday yet?
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Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com>.
On 11/3/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
> I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
> change from the name in use now.
I would tend to agree. The name in use now for a binary distribution
of relevant JARs is "Library".
* http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi
Since we've named the base controller framework "Core", the logical
name for the 1.3.0 rendition is "Struts Core Library".
Originally, I was thinking of combining the full distributions, but
that would be huge and redundant. Better we do things the old way and
just provide a download with only the relevant JARs..
My co-manager for the 1.3.0 release of the seven dwarfs has mentioned
that she is OK with the name "Struts Core Library" and would like to
use a counter, and I agree.
* http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsClassicRelease130
For now, I would suggest we let the "seven dwarfs" Release Plan stand
and go back to work getting the subprojects ready to release. If the
PMC has an issue with the Plan when it comes up for a vote, we can
deal with it then.
-Ted.
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Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
Martin Cooper wrote:
> +1. I agree with all of what Frank says here.
That's it, I'm done, I never need to post again! LOL
> (Gosh, can I say that? This is unprecedented! ;)
This is tantamount to pitching three no-hitters in a row... certainly at
least as hard to believe :) LMAO
> --
> Martin Cooper
Frank
(Thank you and good night!)
>
> Frank
>
> Wendy Smoak wrote:
> > On 11/3/05, Don Brown < mrdon@twdata.org
> <ma...@twdata.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BTW, was "Struts
> >>Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the
> most intuitive
> >>name for what we are trying to do.
> >
> >
> > IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
> > Version Debate. :)
> >
> > So far we have
> > - Struts Classic
> > - Struts Core Library
> > - Struts Distribution
> >
> > Any other options, and which do you prefer?
> >
> > --
> > Wendy
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> <ma...@struts.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> <ma...@struts.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Frank W. Zammetti
> Founder and Chief Software Architect
> Omnytex Technologies
> http://www.omnytex.com
> AIM: fzammetti
> Yahoo: fzammetti
> MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com <ma...@hotmail.com>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> <ma...@struts.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> <ma...@struts.apache.org>
>
>
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
AIM: fzammetti
Yahoo: fzammetti
MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
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Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On 11/4/05, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 11/3/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
> >
> > One option I've said a couple of times that isn't on that list and seems
> > like it isn't getting due consideration: "STRUTS"!
> >
> > I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
> > change from the name in use now. As Laurie quite coherently stated
> > earlier today, there is already an understanding in the community that
> > Struts is a project, but also is a product. IMO, that should continue
> > to be true.
> >
> > We should see:
> >
> > Struts 1.3.0
> >
> > ...which consists of:
> >
> > Core x.x.x
> > Tiles x.x.x
> > Validator x.x.x
> > ...and so on...
> >
> > I think it's fair to say that the version number of Core would always
> > match the version number of Struts. But the other subproject numbers
> > can go off and do whatever they want.
> >
> > But when someone comes to get Struts, *TODAY*, they are looking for that
> > one download that contains everything they need. I don't see why this
> > should change after breaking out the subprojects.
> >
> > How should the Struts version number increment? I'm not as sure about
> > that, but that is to me a separate question anyway. Call it Struts and
> > be done with it. That neatly avoids all the confusion IMO.
>
>
> +1. I agree with all of what Frank says here.
>
> (Gosh, can I say that? This is unprecedented! ;)
Dam, +1 from me too :-)
Niall
> Martin Cooper
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Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 11/3/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
>
> One option I've said a couple of times that isn't on that list and seems
> like it isn't getting due consideration: "STRUTS"!
>
> I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
> change from the name in use now. As Laurie quite coherently stated
> earlier today, there is already an understanding in the community that
> Struts is a project, but also is a product. IMO, that should continue
> to be true.
>
> We should see:
>
> Struts 1.3.0
>
> ...which consists of:
>
> Core x.x.x
> Tiles x.x.x
> Validator x.x.x
> ...and so on...
>
> I think it's fair to say that the version number of Core would always
> match the version number of Struts. But the other subproject numbers
> can go off and do whatever they want.
>
> But when someone comes to get Struts, *TODAY*, they are looking for that
> one download that contains everything they need. I don't see why this
> should change after breaking out the subprojects.
>
> How should the Struts version number increment? I'm not as sure about
> that, but that is to me a separate question anyway. Call it Struts and
> be done with it. That neatly avoids all the confusion IMO.
+1. I agree with all of what Frank says here.
(Gosh, can I say that? This is unprecedented! ;)
--
Martin Cooper
Frank
>
> Wendy Smoak wrote:
> > On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BTW, was "Struts
> >>Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most
> intuitive
> >>name for what we are trying to do.
> >
> >
> > IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
> > Version Debate. :)
> >
> > So far we have
> > - Struts Classic
> > - Struts Core Library
> > - Struts Distribution
> >
> > Any other options, and which do you prefer?
> >
> > --
> > Wendy
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Frank W. Zammetti
> Founder and Chief Software Architect
> Omnytex Technologies
> http://www.omnytex.com
> AIM: fzammetti
> Yahoo: fzammetti
> MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>.
What a concept. But, Frank, this leaves no room for things like Struts JSF,
etc. If Struts is just Struts, what will the people who want it to be
non-Struts do?
On 11/3/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
>
> One option I've said a couple of times that isn't on that list and seems
> like it isn't getting due consideration: "STRUTS"!
>
> I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
> change from the name in use now. As Laurie quite coherently stated
> earlier today, there is already an understanding in the community that
> Struts is a project, but also is a product. IMO, that should continue
> to be true.
>
> We should see:
>
> Struts 1.3.0
>
> ...which consists of:
>
> Core x.x.x
> Tiles x.x.x
> Validator x.x.x
> ...and so on...
>
> I think it's fair to say that the version number of Core would always
> match the version number of Struts. But the other subproject numbers
> can go off and do whatever they want.
>
> But when someone comes to get Struts, *TODAY*, they are looking for that
> one download that contains everything they need. I don't see why this
> should change after breaking out the subprojects.
>
> How should the Struts version number increment? I'm not as sure about
> that, but that is to me a separate question anyway. Call it Struts and
> be done with it. That neatly avoids all the confusion IMO.
>
> Frank
>
> Wendy Smoak wrote:
> > On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BTW, was "Struts
> >>Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most
> intuitive
> >>name for what we are trying to do.
> >
> >
> > IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
> > Version Debate. :)
> >
> > So far we have
> > - Struts Classic
> > - Struts Core Library
> > - Struts Distribution
> >
> > Any other options, and which do you prefer?
> >
> > --
> > Wendy
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Frank W. Zammetti
> Founder and Chief Software Architect
> Omnytex Technologies
> http://www.omnytex.com
> AIM: fzammetti
> Yahoo: fzammetti
> MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>.
The answer, in a more serious vein, Laurie, is that it doesn't make sense
for Struts to use the same name for itself and other tag-a-long wannabees.
Dump them into research and development and leave them to fend for
themselves on their own merits, which are suspect. Then, there will be no
problem. I think it is hilarious that this community has gotten itself so
beholden to non-Struts interests that it has trouble using its own name.
What a situation.
On 11/3/05, Laurie Harper <la...@holoweb.net> wrote:
>
> The Struts project used to have a single deliverable/artifact, which was
> Struts, the product. Using the same name for both made sense then. Now
> that the Struts project has multiple deliverables/artifacts, they
> obviously need different names. It just happens that many of the
> deliverables are subcomponents of the original product, and that one is
> an assembly of deliverables roughly equivalent to the original product.
>
> So, the question is, does it make sense to overload the name 'Struts' to
> mean both
>
> - Struts: the project (w/ various deliverables)
> - Struts: the product (a deliverable of the project,
> comprised of other deliverables but *not* all of them)
>
> Especially since then Shale, Ti, etc. are at the same conceptual level
> as (and not a part of) Struts (the product), even though they are a part
> of Struts (the project)...
>
> I do think there needs to be a name, distinct from the project name, to
> describe the (currently primary) deliverable. If you're still not
> convinced, try removing '(the project)' and '(the product)' from this
> email and see if it still makes any sense ;-)
>
> L.
>
> Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> > One option I've said a couple of times that isn't on that list and seems
> > like it isn't getting due consideration: "STRUTS"!
> >
> > I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
> > change from the name in use now. As Laurie quite coherently stated
> > earlier today, there is already an understanding in the community that
> > Struts is a project, but also is a product. IMO, that should continue
> > to be true.
> >
> > We should see:
> >
> > Struts 1.3.0
> >
> > ...which consists of:
> >
> > Core x.x.x
> > Tiles x.x.x
> > Validator x.x.x
> > ...and so on...
> >
> > I think it's fair to say that the version number of Core would always
> > match the version number of Struts. But the other subproject numbers
> > can go off and do whatever they want.
> >
> > But when someone comes to get Struts, *TODAY*, they are looking for that
> > one download that contains everything they need. I don't see why this
> > should change after breaking out the subprojects.
> >
> > How should the Struts version number increment? I'm not as sure about
> > that, but that is to me a separate question anyway. Call it Struts and
> > be done with it. That neatly avoids all the confusion IMO.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Wendy Smoak wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> BTW, was "Struts
> >>> Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most
> >>> intuitive
> >>> name for what we are trying to do.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
> >> Version Debate. :)
> >>
> >> So far we have
> >> - Struts Classic
> >> - Struts Core Library
> >> - Struts Distribution
> >>
> >> Any other options, and which do you prefer?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wendy
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>.
Bingo! The palace revolt continues!
On 11/3/05, Laurie Harper <la...@holoweb.net> wrote:
>
> The Struts project used to have a single deliverable/artifact, which was
> Struts, the product. Using the same name for both made sense then. Now
> that the Struts project has multiple deliverables/artifacts, they
> obviously need different names. It just happens that many of the
> deliverables are subcomponents of the original product, and that one is
> an assembly of deliverables roughly equivalent to the original product.
>
> So, the question is, does it make sense to overload the name 'Struts' to
> mean both
>
> - Struts: the project (w/ various deliverables)
> - Struts: the product (a deliverable of the project,
> comprised of other deliverables but *not* all of them)
>
> Especially since then Shale, Ti, etc. are at the same conceptual level
> as (and not a part of) Struts (the product), even though they are a part
> of Struts (the project)...
>
> I do think there needs to be a name, distinct from the project name, to
> describe the (currently primary) deliverable. If you're still not
> convinced, try removing '(the project)' and '(the product)' from this
> email and see if it still makes any sense ;-)
>
> L.
>
> Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> > One option I've said a couple of times that isn't on that list and seems
> > like it isn't getting due consideration: "STRUTS"!
> >
> > I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
> > change from the name in use now. As Laurie quite coherently stated
> > earlier today, there is already an understanding in the community that
> > Struts is a project, but also is a product. IMO, that should continue
> > to be true.
> >
> > We should see:
> >
> > Struts 1.3.0
> >
> > ...which consists of:
> >
> > Core x.x.x
> > Tiles x.x.x
> > Validator x.x.x
> > ...and so on...
> >
> > I think it's fair to say that the version number of Core would always
> > match the version number of Struts. But the other subproject numbers
> > can go off and do whatever they want.
> >
> > But when someone comes to get Struts, *TODAY*, they are looking for that
> > one download that contains everything they need. I don't see why this
> > should change after breaking out the subprojects.
> >
> > How should the Struts version number increment? I'm not as sure about
> > that, but that is to me a separate question anyway. Call it Struts and
> > be done with it. That neatly avoids all the confusion IMO.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Wendy Smoak wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> BTW, was "Struts
> >>> Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most
> >>> intuitive
> >>> name for what we are trying to do.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
> >> Version Debate. :)
> >>
> >> So far we have
> >> - Struts Classic
> >> - Struts Core Library
> >> - Struts Distribution
> >>
> >> Any other options, and which do you prefer?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wendy
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by Laurie Harper <la...@holoweb.net>.
The Struts project used to have a single deliverable/artifact, which was
Struts, the product. Using the same name for both made sense then. Now
that the Struts project has multiple deliverables/artifacts, they
obviously need different names. It just happens that many of the
deliverables are subcomponents of the original product, and that one is
an assembly of deliverables roughly equivalent to the original product.
So, the question is, does it make sense to overload the name 'Struts' to
mean both
- Struts: the project (w/ various deliverables)
- Struts: the product (a deliverable of the project,
comprised of other deliverables but *not* all of them)
Especially since then Shale, Ti, etc. are at the same conceptual level
as (and not a part of) Struts (the product), even though they are a part
of Struts (the project)...
I do think there needs to be a name, distinct from the project name, to
describe the (currently primary) deliverable. If you're still not
convinced, try removing '(the project)' and '(the product)' from this
email and see if it still makes any sense ;-)
L.
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> One option I've said a couple of times that isn't on that list and seems
> like it isn't getting due consideration: "STRUTS"!
>
> I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
> change from the name in use now. As Laurie quite coherently stated
> earlier today, there is already an understanding in the community that
> Struts is a project, but also is a product. IMO, that should continue
> to be true.
>
> We should see:
>
> Struts 1.3.0
>
> ...which consists of:
>
> Core x.x.x
> Tiles x.x.x
> Validator x.x.x
> ...and so on...
>
> I think it's fair to say that the version number of Core would always
> match the version number of Struts. But the other subproject numbers
> can go off and do whatever they want.
>
> But when someone comes to get Struts, *TODAY*, they are looking for that
> one download that contains everything they need. I don't see why this
> should change after breaking out the subprojects.
>
> How should the Struts version number increment? I'm not as sure about
> that, but that is to me a separate question anyway. Call it Struts and
> be done with it. That neatly avoids all the confusion IMO.
>
> Frank
>
> Wendy Smoak wrote:
>
>> On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> BTW, was "Struts
>>> Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most
>>> intuitive
>>> name for what we are trying to do.
>>
>>
>>
>> IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
>> Version Debate. :)
>>
>> So far we have
>> - Struts Classic
>> - Struts Core Library
>> - Struts Distribution
>>
>> Any other options, and which do you prefer?
>>
>> --
>> Wendy
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Struts 1.3 Naming
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
One option I've said a couple of times that isn't on that list and seems
like it isn't getting due consideration: "STRUTS"!
I really don't understand why there would be any desire or need to
change from the name in use now. As Laurie quite coherently stated
earlier today, there is already an understanding in the community that
Struts is a project, but also is a product. IMO, that should continue
to be true.
We should see:
Struts 1.3.0
...which consists of:
Core x.x.x
Tiles x.x.x
Validator x.x.x
...and so on...
I think it's fair to say that the version number of Core would always
match the version number of Struts. But the other subproject numbers
can go off and do whatever they want.
But when someone comes to get Struts, *TODAY*, they are looking for that
one download that contains everything they need. I don't see why this
should change after breaking out the subprojects.
How should the Struts version number increment? I'm not as sure about
that, but that is to me a separate question anyway. Call it Struts and
be done with it. That neatly avoids all the confusion IMO.
Frank
Wendy Smoak wrote:
> On 11/3/05, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
>
>
>>BTW, was "Struts
>>Distribution" voted down already, because I thought that was the most intuitive
>>name for what we are trying to do.
>
>
> IIRC it was Martin's suggestion, I think it got lost in the Great
> Version Debate. :)
>
> So far we have
> - Struts Classic
> - Struts Core Library
> - Struts Distribution
>
> Any other options, and which do you prefer?
>
> --
> Wendy
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
>
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
AIM: fzammetti
Yahoo: fzammetti
MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
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