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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Ross Gardler <ro...@wkwyw.net> on 2002/05/15 19:07:22 UTC
Getting test cases written
> Thus after applying a patch, or implementing an enhancement
> you run the JUnit tests, and you might see - depending
> on the completness of the tests that still everything is fine,
> or the patch has some unwanted side effects.
>
> Thus building up a JUnit test base might help to keep
> a stable codebase
I am sure many of you are aware of the benifits of unit testing etc. (if
not then you *must* read Extreme Programming Explained by kent Beck)
I have been using unit tests on many projects for a while. In my
experience getting people to write them up front is next to impossible
so what I do now is:
1) regularly autogenerate test classes against the code base using a
wizrd in our IDE (TogetherJ, but we want to move to one that works from ANT)
2) Whena bug is discovered the *first* thing the developer does is write
a test case to reproduce it. The name of this test case is logged in the
buzilla bug report and the bug number is inserted into a comment in the code
3) The developer can then go about fixing the bug.
4) When the developer wishes to test a fix they need only run a single
test case. Making for a much quicker cycle through the "possible fix",
"doesn't work" and "whoo, it works" states
5) Once that test passes, the developer runs the whole test suite on the
whole application. If a new bug is discoverred go back to step 2.
6) Once all tests are passed the CVS is updated
Over time you build up a very comprehensive set of tests that start to
catch bugs for you at the point of applying the patch. Furthermore, the
crossreferncing with past bugs in the bug database often helps in
solving future bugs.
Of course writing the tests up front would be better but the reality is
(especially in Open Source projects) that they don;t get written. Our
method at least gets some written.
I promise you that the speed of our bug fixes has improved since
implementing this process.
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Ivelin Ivanov <iv...@apache.org>.
This sounds like a good idea.
I also have good overall experience with a rigorous unit testing process.
Maybe the section on Contributions should add:
Submit a unit test along with the patch to cover the error or new
functionality.
This way unit tests can be added gradually over time, as Ross sugests.
Ivelin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Gardler" <ro...@wkwyw.net>
To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:07 PM
Subject: Getting test cases written
> > Thus after applying a patch, or implementing an enhancement
> > you run the JUnit tests, and you might see - depending
> > on the completness of the tests that still everything is fine,
> > or the patch has some unwanted side effects.
> >
> > Thus building up a JUnit test base might help to keep
> > a stable codebase
>
>
> I am sure many of you are aware of the benifits of unit testing etc. (if
> not then you *must* read Extreme Programming Explained by kent Beck)
>
> I have been using unit tests on many projects for a while. In my
> experience getting people to write them up front is next to impossible
> so what I do now is:
>
> 1) regularly autogenerate test classes against the code base using a
> wizrd in our IDE (TogetherJ, but we want to move to one that works from
ANT)
>
> 2) Whena bug is discovered the *first* thing the developer does is write
> a test case to reproduce it. The name of this test case is logged in the
> buzilla bug report and the bug number is inserted into a comment in the
code
>
> 3) The developer can then go about fixing the bug.
>
> 4) When the developer wishes to test a fix they need only run a single
> test case. Making for a much quicker cycle through the "possible fix",
> "doesn't work" and "whoo, it works" states
>
> 5) Once that test passes, the developer runs the whole test suite on the
> whole application. If a new bug is discoverred go back to step 2.
>
> 6) Once all tests are passed the CVS is updated
>
> Over time you build up a very comprehensive set of tests that start to
> catch bugs for you at the point of applying the patch. Furthermore, the
> crossreferncing with past bugs in the bug database often helps in
> solving future bugs.
>
> Of course writing the tests up front would be better but the reality is
> (especially in Open Source projects) that they don;t get written. Our
> method at least gets some written.
>
> I promise you that the speed of our bug fixes has improved since
> implementing this process.
>
>
>
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Ross Gardler <ro...@wkwyw.net>.
Bert Van Kets wrote:
> I am using the portal in the development of my current project.
<snip>
>They
> have done a stress load up to 80 concurrent users with great success.
> Bert
That is very encouraging, we need 50 concurrent users now, and 100 in 6
months. So it looks very promising indeed. The client asked me to get
back to them with performance details once it was considered stable in
HEAD. Looks like I'll be able to do it sooner than I thought.
Thanks for the info, time for me to go look in bugzilla and see if there
are any recurring bugs in another part of the system just waiting for
unit tests.
Ross
>
> At 20:10 15/05/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>
>> The portal stuff has made it into HEAD. I don't know when HEAD
>> will next be stable and I don't see the portal stuff being moved
>> into the current branch at the moment. But any unit tests would
>> be appreciated.
>>
>> J.
>>
>> > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross@wkwyw.net]
>> >
>> > John Morrison wrote:
>> >
>> > > It looks like you've quite a lot of experience writting unit tests,
>> > > would you mind giving us a hand starting them off?
>> >
>> > Our main interest is in the Portal stuff (what's the progress on
>> > bringing that into the main branch) and the forms processing. The main
>> > thing for me is that I need both these in the main trunk and stable
>> > before I can move one of our main clients to Cocoon. So if the
>> community
>> > feels that unit tests are the best way to assist in making this happen
>> > then I'll see what I can do, don't expect a flood of contributions, but
>> > I'll do my best.
>> >
>> >
>> ************************************************************************
>> > * If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me
>> know *
>> >
>> ************************************************************************
>> >
>> > That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
>> >
>> > Ross
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
>> For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
>
>
>
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RE: Getting test cases written
Posted by Bert Van Kets <be...@vankets.com>.
I am using the portal in the development of my current project. I use it
to provide a complete administrative system for the Belgium Society of
Anesthesia and Resucitation. They will be able to manage all the data
online and also edit the content of the public and member site.
The portal is very stable on my development machine. I have reported a few
Bugs to Carsten last week, who has corrected them instantly. Make sure you
use the latest CVS build.
Carsten is speaking on a big conference all week, so he won't be online.
Next week you can bug him on confirming that the whole portal is in the
main branch.
S&N, who created the portal, is using it for a bank in Germany. They have
done a stress load up to 80 concurrent users with great success.
Bert
At 20:10 15/05/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>The portal stuff has made it into HEAD. I don't know when HEAD
>will next be stable and I don't see the portal stuff being moved
>into the current branch at the moment. But any unit tests would
>be appreciated.
>
>J.
>
> > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross@wkwyw.net]
> >
> > John Morrison wrote:
> >
> > > It looks like you've quite a lot of experience writting unit tests,
> > > would you mind giving us a hand starting them off?
> >
> > Our main interest is in the Portal stuff (what's the progress on
> > bringing that into the main branch) and the forms processing. The main
> > thing for me is that I need both these in the main trunk and stable
> > before I can move one of our main clients to Cocoon. So if the community
> > feels that unit tests are the best way to assist in making this happen
> > then I'll see what I can do, don't expect a flood of contributions, but
> > I'll do my best.
> >
> > ************************************************************************
> > * If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me know *
> > ************************************************************************
> >
> > That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
> >
> > Ross
>
>
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Ross Gardler <ro...@wkwyw.net>.
Ivelin Ivanov wrote:
> I would certainly appreciate some help with unit tests for the XMLForm
> framework.
> That is, if it satisfies your needs as a form handling solution.
It certainly does, I will take a look when I get chance (at least a week
away).
> If there is no hard oposition, it may move to the main tree with the 2.1
> release.
That would be great from my perspective.
Ross
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Ivelin Ivanov" <iv...@apache.org>
> I would certainly appreciate some help with unit tests for the XMLForm
> framework.
...
> If there is no hard oposition, it may move to the main tree with the 2.1
> release.
Cocoon needs a decent form system *badly*.
+
Committing alpha code now is good to get people involved
=
please, please, please, let's get forms and flow in main ASAP.
:-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Ivelin Ivanov <iv...@apache.org>.
I would certainly appreciate some help with unit tests for the XMLForm
framework.
That is, if it satisfies your needs as a form handling solution.
If there is no hard oposition, it may move to the main tree with the 2.1
release.
There are a few test cases implemented, but they only scratch the surface of
the various scenarious that the framework can be utilized in.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Gardler" <ro...@wkwyw.net>
To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Getting test cases written
> John Morrison wrote:
>
> > It looks like you've quite a lot of experience writting unit tests,
> > would you mind giving us a hand starting them off?
>
>
> Our main interest is in the Portal stuff (what's the progress on
> bringing that into the main branch) and the forms processing. The main
> thing for me is that I need both these in the main trunk and stable
> before I can move one of our main clients to Cocoon. So if the community
> feels that unit tests are the best way to assist in making this happen
> then I'll see what I can do, don't expect a flood of contributions, but
> I'll do my best.
>
> ************************************************************************
> * If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me know *
> ************************************************************************
>
> That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
>
> Ross
>
>
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Examples:
1. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/tests/junit/ - unit test report for POI
2.
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-poi/src/testcases/org/apache/poi/hssf/record/ - some unit tests
(see root src/testcases for more)
I started out very skeptical that it was worth the effort, but as our
structures changed code that had unit tests never made it into CVS
broken, code that didn't well took sometimes days to track down.
We've gone a step further and started generating some code from XML
descriptors including unit test data:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/jakarta-poi/src/records/definitions/
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/jakarta-poi/src/records/styles/
We can now generate the low level record types along with their test
case using real world data. This descriptor method mostly just saves us
typing (and boredome) but also ensures we do things the same way every
time. For another part of the project we're doing the same thing but
subclassing the "Type" for adding specific logic (and I assume we're
doing the same for the test case).
In conclusion The biggest advantage of unit testing is in preventing
those multiday bugs that creep up in dependencies. Further advantages
can be reached through autogeneration of simple types and their test
cases. Over time this has proven itself at least on POI to be the most
invaluable thing we do. (the second is whine at people if they don't
document ;-) )
-Andy
On Sat, 2002-05-18 at 11:16, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>
> David Crossley wrote:
>
> > Is "unit testing" different to "functional testing", or are they
> > complementary?
>
>
> They are indeed complimentary. In a nutshell, unit tests ensure that the
> indiviviual methods within individual classes behave as expected.
> Funtional tests ensure that the system as a whole behaves as expected.
> In other words, unit tests operate on classes (in many cases individual
> methods), functional tests will emulate a user actually using the system
> as a whole so operate on combinations of classes.
>
>
> > Here are a few relevant Anteater threads ...
>
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101831758001240
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=102168000122016
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101897525908787
>
> Thanks, I will look into Anteater (took a brief look the other day,
> looks like good stuff).
>
>
> >
> > You mention something above that could be key ... if only
> > unit tests were interesting. I wonder if Cocoon could help
> > itself here. If the results of running the test suite were generated
> > as xml, we could have a Sample that demonstrates how happy
> > Cocoon is with its current state.
>
>
> JUnit (the most popular unit testing tool, http://www.junit.org)) does
> indeed export its results in XML format. There are also lots of tools
> that will show how much code is covered by the tests. It would certainly
> be possible to create some nice reports showing how well the code is
> tested.
>
> > The developers would like to
> > be sure that their favourite classes were behaving well.
>
>
> So what do other developers think of this. Is it worth the effort? Will
> you take responsability for improving the test coverage of your code if
> given suchg reports?
>
> Ross
>
>
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--
http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software solutions for business
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document in
Java
http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best build/project
structure
a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on complex Projects!
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Ross Gardler <ro...@wkwyw.net>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Is "unit testing" different to "functional testing", or are they
> complementary?
They are indeed complimentary. In a nutshell, unit tests ensure that the
indiviviual methods within individual classes behave as expected.
Funtional tests ensure that the system as a whole behaves as expected.
In other words, unit tests operate on classes (in many cases individual
methods), functional tests will emulate a user actually using the system
as a whole so operate on combinations of classes.
> Here are a few relevant Anteater threads ...
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101831758001240
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=102168000122016
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101897525908787
Thanks, I will look into Anteater (took a brief look the other day,
looks like good stuff).
>
> You mention something above that could be key ... if only
> unit tests were interesting. I wonder if Cocoon could help
> itself here. If the results of running the test suite were generated
> as xml, we could have a Sample that demonstrates how happy
> Cocoon is with its current state.
JUnit (the most popular unit testing tool, http://www.junit.org)) does
indeed export its results in XML format. There are also lots of tools
that will show how much code is covered by the tests. It would certainly
be possible to create some nice reports showing how well the code is
tested.
> The developers would like to
> be sure that their favourite classes were behaving well.
So what do other developers think of this. Is it worth the effort? Will
you take responsability for improving the test coverage of your code if
given suchg reports?
Ross
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
> Here are a few relevant Anteater threads ...
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101831758001240
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=102168000122016
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101897525908787
>
> You mention something above that could be key ... if only
> unit tests were interesting. I wonder if Cocoon could help
> itself here. If the results of running the test suite were generated
> as xml, we could have a Sample that demonstrates how happy
> Cocoon is with its current state. The developers would like to
> be sure that their favourite classes were behaving well.
> --David
>
One thing POI did was made successful unit testing necessary to release
(or the dist build fails), put the report up as a "shame" page. But
unit tests are a priority to a bulk of the committers on POI so we nag
people to submit them with the patches, etc. Its not yet an official
requirement but I'd probably vote for it if it were proposed today.
We've seen it save us too much!
>
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--
http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software solutions for business
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document in
Java
http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best build/project
structure
a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on complex Projects!
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
>
> >>************************************************************************
> >>* If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me know *
> >>************************************************************************
> >>
> >>That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
> >>
> >><snip/>
> >>Thanks for the info, time for me to go look in bugzilla and see if there
> >>are any recurring bugs in another part of the system just waiting for
> >>unit tests.
> >>
> >
> > Wow. Ross, this is vital. So please do help to start the process.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> > However, i remember
> > that Bernhard warned that JUnit tests could be hard to maintain.
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=100972338307120
> > Re: BUG 5060, CommandlineContext
>
> I certainly agree with Bernhard, unit tests are hard to maintain. On one
> of our projects we have just appointed someone to focus on testing,
> perhaps Cocoon could benifit from such an approach, if only Unit Tests
> were as interesting new code ;-)
>
> I should be able to spend a day on this next week, I'll come back
> with a proposal about how to get started, and maybe even write the
> odd test :-)
I speak with absolutely no knowledge of this topic (though i
certainly appreciate it). Anyway i want to encourage this to
happen.
I have heard Ovidiu make reference to Anteater, and especially
to recent work in this area.
Is "unit testing" different to "functional testing", or are they
complementary?
Here are a few relevant Anteater threads ...
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101831758001240
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=102168000122016
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=101897525908787
You mention something above that could be key ... if only
unit tests were interesting. I wonder if Cocoon could help
itself here. If the results of running the test suite were generated
as xml, we could have a Sample that demonstrates how happy
Cocoon is with its current state. The developers would like to
be sure that their favourite classes were behaving well.
--David
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Ross Gardler <ro...@wkwyw.net>.
David Crossley wrote:
>>************************************************************************
>>* If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me know *
>>************************************************************************
>>
>>That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
>>
>><snip/>
>>Thanks for the info, time for me to go look in bugzilla and see if there
>>are any recurring bugs in another part of the system just waiting for
>>unit tests.
>>
>
> Wow. Ross, this is vital. So please do help to start the process.
<snip>
> However, i remember
> that Bernhard warned that JUnit tests could be hard to maintain.
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=100972338307120
> Re: BUG 5060, CommandlineContext
I certainly agree with Bernhard, unit tests are hard to maintain. On one
of our projects we have just appointed someone to focus on testing,
perhaps Cocoon could benifit from such an approach, if only Unit Tests
were as interesting new code ;-)
I should be able to spend a day on this next week, I'll come back with a proposal about how to get started, and maybe even write the odd test :-)
Ross
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> John Morrison wrote:
>
> > It looks like you've quite a lot of experience writting unit tests,
> > would you mind giving us a hand starting them off?
>
> Our main interest is in the Portal stuff (what's the progress on
> bringing that into the main branch) and the forms processing. The main
> thing for me is that I need both these in the main trunk and stable
> before I can move one of our main clients to Cocoon. So if the community
> feels that unit tests are the best way to assist in making this happen
> then I'll see what I can do, don't expect a flood of contributions, but
> I'll do my best.
>
> ************************************************************************
> * If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me know *
> ************************************************************************
>
> That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
>
> <snip/>
> Thanks for the info, time for me to go look in bugzilla and see if there
> are any recurring bugs in another part of the system just waiting for
> unit tests.
Wow. Ross, this is vital. So please do help to start the process.
The area that i have seen to cause a lot of grief is File URLs
(and a recent thread shows that it may be happening again).
One place that this issue arose was when we were getting the
Catalog Entity Resolver support into Cocoon. There was untold
grief when reports came in that it would work on UNIX but not
on Windows. After a fix it was then the other way around.
Bernhard Huber came to the rescue and add some JUnit tests
to help track it down. Many thanks again B. However, i remember
that Bernhard warned that JUnit tests could be hard to maintain.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=100972338307120
Re: BUG 5060, CommandlineContext
--David
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RE: Getting test cases written
Posted by John Morrison <jo...@ntlworld.com>.
The portal stuff has made it into HEAD. I don't know when HEAD
will next be stable and I don't see the portal stuff being moved
into the current branch at the moment. But any unit tests would
be appreciated.
J.
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross@wkwyw.net]
>
> John Morrison wrote:
>
> > It looks like you've quite a lot of experience writting unit tests,
> > would you mind giving us a hand starting them off?
>
> Our main interest is in the Portal stuff (what's the progress on
> bringing that into the main branch) and the forms processing. The main
> thing for me is that I need both these in the main trunk and stable
> before I can move one of our main clients to Cocoon. So if the community
> feels that unit tests are the best way to assist in making this happen
> then I'll see what I can do, don't expect a flood of contributions, but
> I'll do my best.
>
> ************************************************************************
> * If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me know *
> ************************************************************************
>
> That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
>
> Ross
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Re: Getting test cases written
Posted by Ross Gardler <ro...@wkwyw.net>.
John Morrison wrote:
> It looks like you've quite a lot of experience writting unit tests,
> would you mind giving us a hand starting them off?
Our main interest is in the Portal stuff (what's the progress on
bringing that into the main branch) and the forms processing. The main
thing for me is that I need both these in the main trunk and stable
before I can move one of our main clients to Cocoon. So if the community
feels that unit tests are the best way to assist in making this happen
then I'll see what I can do, don't expect a flood of contributions, but
I'll do my best.
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* If you have an area that commonly causes problems please let me know *
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That is where I will focus my initial efforts.
Ross
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RE: Getting test cases written
Posted by John Morrison <jo...@ntlworld.com>.
Hi :)
It looks like you've quite a lot of experience writting unit tests,
would you mind giving us a hand starting them off?
Thanks,
J.
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross@wkwyw.net]
> Subject: Getting test cases written
>
> I promise you that the speed of our bug fixes has improved since
> implementing this process.
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