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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net> on 2005/11/25 13:30:25 UTC
Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
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We currently have a pt_BR.po, but no pt_BR mailing list because there is
only one pt_BR.po maintainer.
We have a svnbook pt_BR translation project beginning, and they need a
mailing list.
Since the primary use of the mailing list will be for svnbook stuff, it
seems appropriate to host it alongside the book, @red-bean.com, rather
than @subversion.tigris.org. Since cross-communication between .po and
svnbook translators is desirable, I plan to call the list svn-pt_br,
instead of svnbook-pt_br.
I am also extremely reluctant to force anyone into using the tigris.org
mail archiver and moderation software, when a friendlier alternative
(Mailman) is available.
My ONLY hesitation in this matter is that this means that the pt_BR list
will be living in a different domain to the es, ru, and fr lists.
Though, we could certainly solve that by moving those to red-bean too.
Opinions desired.
I'll be creating the list today if no-one screams very loudly.
Max.
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Re: Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
Posted by Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net>.
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kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net> writes:
>
>>I have difficulty refuting this assersion, because I have difficulty
>>comprehending how anyone could prefer tigris :-/
>
>
> :-)
>
>
>>To this, I agree, but not when consistency requires significant other
>>sacrifices.
>>
>>I would suggest attempting to restore consistency by offering the
>>localization mailing lists currently hosted at subversion.tigris.org the
>>opportunity to move.
>
>
> Oy. Before we do that, do we know that those folks are actually
> complaining, or would complain if asked? My instinct is to leave well
> enough alone.
>
> In fact, here's an idea: why not ask the charter members of the new
> list what they'd prefer?
OK. I will do my best to write up a not-overly-biased comparison.
All three of them are using GMail accounts - I realize GMail supports
POP access too, but odds are, that they will find web moderation easier.
Max.
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Re: Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net> writes:
> I have difficulty refuting this assersion, because I have difficulty
> comprehending how anyone could prefer tigris :-/
:-)
> To this, I agree, but not when consistency requires significant other
> sacrifices.
>
> I would suggest attempting to restore consistency by offering the
> localization mailing lists currently hosted at subversion.tigris.org the
> opportunity to move.
Oy. Before we do that, do we know that those folks are actually
complaining, or would complain if asked? My instinct is to leave well
enough alone.
In fact, here's an idea: why not ask the charter members of the new
list what they'd prefer?
-K
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Re: Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org> writes:
> Actually... the moderator *can* use email to pass/reject messages. I
> believe that cmpilato did this for the viewcvs mailing lists when we
> used Mailman.
Yes I did. Even had kfogel work up some elisp so I could do this very
thing more easily.
That said, I strongly prefer the Tigris list moderation mechanism.
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
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Re: Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
Posted by Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net>.
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Greg Stein wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 08:50:06PM +0000, Max Bowsher wrote:
>
>>...
>>
>>>>I am also extremely reluctant to force anyone into using the tigris.org
>>>>mail archiver and moderation software, when a friendlier alternative
>>>>(Mailman) is available.
>>>
>>>Mailman doesn't offer a purely email-based moderation mechanism, does
>>>it?
>>
>>This is true. However, a the concept of a purely email-based moderation
>>mechanism has suffers from drawbacks that make this not a disadvantage.
>
>
> Actually... the moderator *can* use email to pass/reject messages. I
> believe that cmpilato did this for the viewcvs mailing lists when we
> used Mailman.
Oh! Thanks, I totally missed that. Down at the very bottom of each
moderation message, after the message text, are instructions describing
exactly what you say.
Max.
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Re: Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 08:50:06PM +0000, Max Bowsher wrote:
>...
> >>I am also extremely reluctant to force anyone into using the tigris.org
> >>mail archiver and moderation software, when a friendlier alternative
> >>(Mailman) is available.
> >
> > Mailman doesn't offer a purely email-based moderation mechanism, does
> > it?
>
> This is true. However, a the concept of a purely email-based moderation
> mechanism has suffers from drawbacks that make this not a disadvantage.
Actually... the moderator *can* use email to pass/reject messages. I
believe that cmpilato did this for the viewcvs mailing lists when we
used Mailman.
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
Posted by Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net>.
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kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net> writes:
>
>>I am also extremely reluctant to force anyone into using the tigris.org
>>mail archiver and moderation software, when a friendlier alternative
>>(Mailman) is available.
>
>
> Mailman doesn't offer a purely email-based moderation mechanism, does
> it?
This is true. However, a the concept of a purely email-based moderation
mechanism has suffers from drawbacks that make this not a disadvantage.
* If a list is moderated by multiple moderators, then all moderators end
up having to make decisions about all mails, because there is no
feasible way to communicate that a message has been handled by another
moderator.
* It is far, far easier to clear out multiple spam messages by reviewing
a single summary webpage, then clicking a 'discard all' button, than it
is to individually inspect multiple mail messages.
> And its default archiver, the one we're using on Red Bean, is
> IMHO not as good as those at tigris.org...
I have to disagree with this point. The tigris.org archiver suffers from
painfully slow page load times, an inability to display messages in a
way which shows the nested structure of a thread, and an inability to
show messages sorted by date, grouped by thread.
I will agree that Mailman's builtin archiver is not the best, but I find
it to be better than what tigris.org offers, and I am able and willing
to install a better archiver on red-bean.com if desired.
> Are we sure it's doing anyone a favor to run a list at Red Bean rather
> than tigris? I'd rather deal with tigris, personally.
I have difficulty refuting this assersion, because I have difficulty
comprehending how anyone could prefer tigris :-/
>>My ONLY hesitation in this matter is that this means that the pt_BR list
>>will be living in a different domain to the es, ru, and fr lists.
>>Though, we could certainly solve that by moving those to red-bean too.
>>
>>Opinions desired.
>>I'll be creating the list today if no-one screams very loudly.
>
> I kind of think the list should be at tigris, because it's not really
> technically worse (see above),
I cannot agree that it is not technically worse.
> and that way the list would be visible
> right next to the analogous lists for other languages. Consistency is
> good.
To this, I agree, but not when consistency requires significant other
sacrifices.
I would suggest attempting to restore consistency by offering the
localization mailing lists currently hosted at subversion.tigris.org the
opportunity to move.
Max.
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Re: Checking for consensus about creation of svn-pt_br@red-bean.com
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net> writes:
> I am also extremely reluctant to force anyone into using the tigris.org
> mail archiver and moderation software, when a friendlier alternative
> (Mailman) is available.
Mailman doesn't offer a purely email-based moderation mechanism, does
it? And its default archiver, the one we're using on Red Bean, is
IMHO not as good as those at tigris.org...
Are we sure it's doing anyone a favor to run a list at Red Bean rather
than tigris? I'd rather deal with tigris, personally.
> My ONLY hesitation in this matter is that this means that the pt_BR list
> will be living in a different domain to the es, ru, and fr lists.
> Though, we could certainly solve that by moving those to red-bean too.
>
> Opinions desired.
> I'll be creating the list today if no-one screams very loudly.
I kind of think the list should be at tigris, because it's not really
technically worse (see above), and that way the list would be visible
right next to the analogous lists for other languages. Consistency is
good.
-Karl
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