Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

The Open Symphony project has been kindly hosting a forum for the
Struts Developers list using their Jive Forums instance.

* http://forums.opensymphony.com/forum.jspa?forumID=34

In practice, we find that the Jive Forums works well with a
conventional mailing list. The forum includes features that help to
make the best use of the time available to our volunteers and other
stakeholders.

JiveSoftware does have a open source licensing program. We'd like to
setup a JiveForum in the Struts zone on a trial basis. If the trial is
successful, then we would work towards hosting the forum outside of
the Struts zone, for other ASF projects to use.

As this is an ambitious use of a zone, we wanted to run the plan by
infrastructure@ first.

-Ted.

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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org>]

I do find the embedded version to be usable and preferable. My 2 cents.


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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>]

On 3/29/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Or, we could just embed Nabble, as do ActiveMQ and Geronimo:


I don't understand "embed" here. They are no more "embedded" than the link
that the Struts web site already has to Nabble on this page:

http://struts.apache.org/mail.html

The only differences that I can see are that (a) the links to forums are a
little more obvious, and (b) they've made the forum page header look like
the web site.

I'd be happy for us to simply link more obviously to the Nabble forums. If
we want to try to make them look more like the Struts site, I'm fine with
that too.

--
Martin Cooper


http://activemq.apache.org/discussion-forums.html
> http://geronimo.apache.org/discussion-forums.html
>
> -Ted.
>
> On 3/28/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> > The Open Symphony project has been kindly hosting a forum for the
> > Struts Developers list using their Jive Forums instance.
> >
> > * http://forums.opensymphony.com/forum.jspa?forumID=34
> >
> > In practice, we find that the Jive Forums works well with a
> > conventional mailing list. The forum includes features that help to
> > make the best use of the time available to our volunteers and other
> > stakeholders.
> >
> > JiveSoftware does have a open source licensing program. We'd like to
> > setup a JiveForum in the Struts zone on a trial basis. If the trial is
> > successful, then we would work towards hosting the forum outside of
> > the Struts zone, for other ASF projects to use.
> >
> > As this is an ambitious use of a zone, we wanted to run the plan by
> > infrastructure@ first.
> >
> > -Ted.
>
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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Or, we could just embed Nabble, as do ActiveMQ and Geronimo:

http://activemq.apache.org/discussion-forums.html
http://geronimo.apache.org/discussion-forums.html

-Ted.

On 3/28/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> The Open Symphony project has been kindly hosting a forum for the
> Struts Developers list using their Jive Forums instance.
>
> * http://forums.opensymphony.com/forum.jspa?forumID=34
>
> In practice, we find that the Jive Forums works well with a
> conventional mailing list. The forum includes features that help to
> make the best use of the time available to our volunteers and other
> stakeholders.
>
> JiveSoftware does have a open source licensing program. We'd like to
> setup a JiveForum in the Struts zone on a trial basis. If the trial is
> successful, then we would work towards hosting the forum outside of
> the Struts zone, for other ASF projects to use.
>
> As this is an ambitious use of a zone, we wanted to run the plan by
> infrastructure@ first.
>
> -Ted.

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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>]

Just to be clear, "we" here refers to some subset of the Struts developers;
others of us, including myself, do not agree with the statements made below.

--
Martin Cooper


On 3/28/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> The Open Symphony project has been kindly hosting a forum for the
> Struts Developers list using their Jive Forums instance.
>
> * http://forums.opensymphony.com/forum.jspa?forumID=34
>
> In practice, we find that the Jive Forums works well with a
> conventional mailing list. The forum includes features that help to
> make the best use of the time available to our volunteers and other
> stakeholders.
>
> JiveSoftware does have a open source licensing program. We'd like to
> setup a JiveForum in the Struts zone on a trial basis. If the trial is
> successful, then we would work towards hosting the forum outside of
> the Struts zone, for other ASF projects to use.
>
> As this is an ambitious use of a zone, we wanted to run the plan by
> infrastructure@ first.
>
> -Ted.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>

Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

WebWork has been using Jive Forums for a very long time. It's not an
unknown factor.

Essentially, we'd be using the zone as a sandbox to host a revolution.
If it works out, we can look to moving to a production box. If it
doesn't, we shut it down, no big woof.

-Ted.

On 4/3/07, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> Unlike JIRA and Confluence, installing Jive on the zone means that the
> Struts PMC is completely responsible for its oversight. That includes not
> just installation and maintenance, but spam filtering and everything else of
> that ilk. As a PMC member, I am -1 on the PMC taking on that much
> infrastructure-related oversight.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > Using nabble seems to be the path of least resistance.
> >
> > Hey,  if someone wants to take the lead on promoting the use of Nabble
> > forums within the Struts community, that too would be a good thing.
> > Nabble does seems like a good option, which is why I was the first to
> > mention it, but very few people seem to realize it can be used as a
> > forum.
> >
> > >
> > > Just my $.02
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Mitchell
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 3, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Martin Cooper wrote:
> > >
> > > > OK, then I will say "stop". I see no good reason to set up yet another
> > > > forum, that we need to maintain on ASF infrastructure, when there are
> > > > already perfectly good forums set up and maintained for us by
> > > > Nabble. The
> > > > Nabble forums have been there for a long time now, they seem to
> > > > work just
> > > > fine, and plenty of people use them. There's no good reason to
> > > > duplicate
> > > > that effort.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Martin Cooper
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4/3/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes. We have the tacit approval of infrastructure (no one said stop).
> > > >>
> > > >> If someone else wants to pursue the Nabble angle, we could contrast
> > > >> and compare which provides the most benefit to the project.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Ted.
> > > >>
> > > >> On 4/2/07, Patrick Lightbody <fo...@opensymphony.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > I would be happy to help make this happen. Someone just needs to
> > > >> provide
> > > >> me with access to the zone, right?

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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>]

On 4/3/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 4/3/07, James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The problem with using our zone is that infra tends to treat the zone
> > machines as if they are just toys, and that projects/people should
> > not complain if they.....oh....I don't know....reboot it randomly
> > without warning.
>
> True, but infrastructure did not raise a technical concern regarding
> bandwidth or hardware resource allocations. Initially, we could open
> the forums up to committers and other key contributors, so that we can
> decide for ourselves whether the benefit is worth the effort. If there
> are volunteers to maintain the forum, we can look to moving it to a
> production machine. Essentially, this is how we got JIRA and
> Confluence into play. Like JIRA and Confluence, Jive Forums is based
> on WebWork, so part of this is about eating our own dog food :)


Unlike JIRA and Confluence, installing Jive on the zone means that the
Struts PMC is completely responsible for its oversight. That includes not
just installation and maintenance, but spam filtering and everything else of
that ilk. As a PMC member, I am -1 on the PMC taking on that much
infrastructure-related oversight.

--
Martin Cooper


> Using nabble seems to be the path of least resistance.
>
> Hey,  if someone wants to take the lead on promoting the use of Nabble
> forums within the Struts community, that too would be a good thing.
> Nabble does seems like a good option, which is why I was the first to
> mention it, but very few people seem to realize it can be used as a
> forum.
>
> >
> > Just my $.02
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Mitchell
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 3, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Martin Cooper wrote:
> >
> > > OK, then I will say "stop". I see no good reason to set up yet another
> > > forum, that we need to maintain on ASF infrastructure, when there are
> > > already perfectly good forums set up and maintained for us by
> > > Nabble. The
> > > Nabble forums have been there for a long time now, they seem to
> > > work just
> > > fine, and plenty of people use them. There's no good reason to
> > > duplicate
> > > that effort.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Martin Cooper
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/3/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Yes. We have the tacit approval of infrastructure (no one said stop).
> > >>
> > >> If someone else wants to pursue the Nabble angle, we could contrast
> > >> and compare which provides the most benefit to the project.
> > >>
> > >> -Ted.
> > >>
> > >> On 4/2/07, Patrick Lightbody <fo...@opensymphony.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > I would be happy to help make this happen. Someone just needs to
> > >> provide
> > >> me with access to the zone, right?
>
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>
>

Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org>]

I think we are all getting ahead of ourselves.  Let a volunteer set up a
Jive instance, and give it a few weeks.  If the community and the PMC find
it valueable, then an official decision can be made.  Personally, I've found
Jive to be immensely useful in WebWork, both as a forum interface to the
list, but also for its rss and web chat integration.  It is at least worth a
test run.

If resources is the problem, I'm sure we could find another hosting
solution, but again, let's first have a test instance to play around with.

Don

On 4/4/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 4/3/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What's the advantage of Jive over Nabble?
>
> I'm not sure, but I would like to find out.
>
> > What else is Nabble used for other than as a forum?
>
> I just thought it was a mail archive that could search multiple lists.
> It wasn't until I saw what Geronimo and others were doing that I
> realized it could be used like a forum.
>
> -Ted.
>
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>
>

Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

On 4/3/07, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the advantage of Jive over Nabble?

I'm not sure, but I would like to find out.

> What else is Nabble used for other than as a forum?

I just thought it was a mail archive that could search multiple lists.
It wasn't until I saw what Geronimo and others were doing that I
realized it could be used like a forum.

-Ted.

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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>]

On 4/3/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:

> > Using nabble seems to be the path of least resistance.
>
> Hey,  if someone wants to take the lead on promoting the use of Nabble
> forums within the Struts community, that too would be a good thing.
> Nabble does seems like a good option, which is why I was the first to
> mention it, but very few people seem to realize it can be used as a
> forum.

What's the advantage of Jive over Nabble?

What else is Nabble used for other than as a forum?

Hen

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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

On 4/3/07, James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem with using our zone is that infra tends to treat the zone
> machines as if they are just toys, and that projects/people should
> not complain if they.....oh....I don't know....reboot it randomly
> without warning.

True, but infrastructure did not raise a technical concern regarding
bandwidth or hardware resource allocations. Initially, we could open
the forums up to committers and other key contributors, so that we can
decide for ourselves whether the benefit is worth the effort. If there
are volunteers to maintain the forum, we can look to moving it to a
production machine. Essentially, this is how we got JIRA and
Confluence into play. Like JIRA and Confluence, Jive Forums is based
on WebWork, so part of this is about eating our own dog food :)

> Using nabble seems to be the path of least resistance.

Hey,  if someone wants to take the lead on promoting the use of Nabble
forums within the Struts community, that too would be a good thing.
Nabble does seems like a good option, which is why I was the first to
mention it, but very few people seem to realize it can be used as a
forum.

>
> Just my $.02
>
>
> --
> James Mitchell
>
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Martin Cooper wrote:
>
> > OK, then I will say "stop". I see no good reason to set up yet another
> > forum, that we need to maintain on ASF infrastructure, when there are
> > already perfectly good forums set up and maintained for us by
> > Nabble. The
> > Nabble forums have been there for a long time now, they seem to
> > work just
> > fine, and plenty of people use them. There's no good reason to
> > duplicate
> > that effort.
> >
> > --
> > Martin Cooper
> >
> >
> > On 4/3/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes. We have the tacit approval of infrastructure (no one said stop).
> >>
> >> If someone else wants to pursue the Nabble angle, we could contrast
> >> and compare which provides the most benefit to the project.
> >>
> >> -Ted.
> >>
> >> On 4/2/07, Patrick Lightbody <fo...@opensymphony.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > I would be happy to help make this happen. Someone just needs to
> >> provide
> >> me with access to the zone, right?

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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com>]

The problem with using our zone is that infra tends to treat the zone  
machines as if they are just toys, and that projects/people should  
not complain if they.....oh....I don't know....reboot it randomly  
without warning.

Using nabble seems to be the path of least resistance.

Just my $.02


--
James Mitchell



On Apr 3, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Martin Cooper wrote:

> OK, then I will say "stop". I see no good reason to set up yet another
> forum, that we need to maintain on ASF infrastructure, when there are
> already perfectly good forums set up and maintained for us by  
> Nabble. The
> Nabble forums have been there for a long time now, they seem to  
> work just
> fine, and plenty of people use them. There's no good reason to  
> duplicate
> that effort.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> On 4/3/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Yes. We have the tacit approval of infrastructure (no one said stop).
>>
>> If someone else wants to pursue the Nabble angle, we could contrast
>> and compare which provides the most benefit to the project.
>>
>> -Ted.
>>
>> On 4/2/07, Patrick Lightbody <fo...@opensymphony.com>  
>> wrote:
>> > I would be happy to help make this happen. Someone just needs to  
>> provide
>> me with access to the zone, right?
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>


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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>]

OK, then I will say "stop". I see no good reason to set up yet another
forum, that we need to maintain on ASF infrastructure, when there are
already perfectly good forums set up and maintained for us by Nabble. The
Nabble forums have been there for a long time now, they seem to work just
fine, and plenty of people use them. There's no good reason to duplicate
that effort.

--
Martin Cooper


On 4/3/07, Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Yes. We have the tacit approval of infrastructure (no one said stop).
>
> If someone else wants to pursue the Nabble angle, we could contrast
> and compare which provides the most benefit to the project.
>
> -Ted.
>
> On 4/2/07, Patrick Lightbody <fo...@opensymphony.com> wrote:
> > I would be happy to help make this happen. Someone just needs to provide
> me with access to the zone, right?
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>

Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Yes. We have the tacit approval of infrastructure (no one said stop).

If someone else wants to pursue the Nabble angle, we could contrast
and compare which provides the most benefit to the project.

-Ted.

On 4/2/07, Patrick Lightbody <fo...@opensymphony.com> wrote:
> I would be happy to help make this happen. Someone just needs to provide me with access to the zone, right?

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Re: Jive Forum in Struts Zone

[Patrick Lightbody <fo...@opensymphony.com>]

I would be happy to help make this happen. Someone just needs to provide me with access to the zone, right?
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