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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com> on 2015/09/10 10:13:56 UTC
ApacheCon tomcat9 or tomcat-trunk
Hi,
I have a wording questions from my ApacheCon presentations, I am using
tomcat9 to speak about trunk but basically tomcat9 should be with java9
and the new servlet specifications. AKA far future.
It will be probably interesting to promote an intermediate tomcat
version with HTTP/2 and related features but without a servlet 4.0 do
we want to do that?
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
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Re: ApacheCon tomcat9 or tomcat-trunk
Posted by Violeta Georgieva <mi...@gmail.com>.
2015-09-10 15:52 GMT+03:00 jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>:
>
> On 09/10/2015 02:10 PM, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't exactly know what is in trunk that couldn't be in a 8.1. The
>>
>> removals of existing features make a lot of the rest probably acceptable.
>> The EE schedule saying 2017, it's really a looooong time to be in beta
[or
>> not maybe;) ].
>
>
> HTTP/2 seems to be very popular I am +1 making a tomcat 8.1.x or 8.5.x
allowing users to jump in the new technology.
+1 for back porting to Tomcat 8
Regards,
Violeta
> Cheers
>
> Jean-Frederic
>
>
>
>
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>
Re: ApacheCon tomcat9 or tomcat-trunk
Posted by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>.
On 09/10/2015 02:10 PM, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>> I don't exactly know what is in trunk that couldn't be in a 8.1. The
> removals of existing features make a lot of the rest probably acceptable.
> The EE schedule saying 2017, it's really a looooong time to be in beta [or
> not maybe;) ].
HTTP/2 seems to be very popular I am +1 making a tomcat 8.1.x or 8.5.x
allowing users to jump in the new technology.
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
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Re: ApacheCon tomcat9 or tomcat-trunk
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
2015-09-10 10:51 GMT+02:00 Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>:
> On 10/09/2015 09:36, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> > 2015-09-10 10:13 GMT+02:00 jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have a wording questions from my ApacheCon presentations, I am using
> >> tomcat9 to speak about trunk but basically tomcat9 should be with java9
> and
> >> the new servlet specifications. AKA far future.
> >>
> >
> > I'm not sure it will require Java 9. Using ALPN would require either
> Java 9
> > or OpenSSL, I think that is going to be the most likely scenario, so
> Java 8
> > would remain quite usable.
>
> +1. We are going to have to find a way to work with ALPN and Java8. The
> OpenSSL + NIO/NIO2 option looks like the way to go at the moment.
>
There's another major issue with straight Java 8: its JSSE performance is
horrible for the "current" ciphers. So even if ALPN was somehow added, it
is rather useless for HTTP/2.
>
> >> It will be probably interesting to promote an intermediate tomcat
> version
> >> with HTTP/2 and related features but without a servlet 4.0 do we want
> to
> >> do that?
> >>
> >
> > Yes, the problem is that the next EE is too far away. A new 8.x would
> have
> > to supersede the current 8.0 though otherwise it would be too difficult
> for
> > maintenance. However, there are significant addition/changes to the
> > configuration in trunk.
>
> HTTP/2 isn't stable right now. One of my more recent changes (I suspect
> the old stream clean-up) is triggering crashes with APR. I should be
> able to get that fixed in time for ApacheCon and put together a
> 9.0.0.ALPHA release.
>
Ok, I agree it's a bit early right now.
My current testing (with JF) with browsers (chrome and firefox) is:
- APR works perfect (no crash for me)
- NIO works ("perfect"is missing)
- NIO2 fails quickly (with chrome, it doesn't get past the client settings
frame)
Trying to debug NIO2, I haven't found anything wrong, nothing seems
corrupted, IO is working (that's easy to see since it's a regular
read/write before passing data to/from the SSL engine), etc, but the
browser doesn't like it [without explanation of course].
>
> Back-porting HTTP/2 (once it is stable) to 8.x would require
> back-porting the connector clean-up which in turn means dropping BIO and
> comet support for an 8.1.x release series. I think it would be worth
> gauging community reaction to such a move first since I agree we would
> have to stop support for 8.0.x. It might be preferable to have 9.0.x
> BETA releases that are only beta because the Servlet API is not fixed.
>
> I don't exactly know what is in trunk that couldn't be in a 8.1. The
removals of existing features make a lot of the rest probably acceptable.
The EE schedule saying 2017, it's really a looooong time to be in beta [or
not maybe ;) ].
Rémy
Re: ApacheCon tomcat9 or tomcat-trunk
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 10/09/2015 09:36, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> 2015-09-10 10:13 GMT+02:00 jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a wording questions from my ApacheCon presentations, I am using
>> tomcat9 to speak about trunk but basically tomcat9 should be with java9 and
>> the new servlet specifications. AKA far future.
>>
>
> I'm not sure it will require Java 9. Using ALPN would require either Java 9
> or OpenSSL, I think that is going to be the most likely scenario, so Java 8
> would remain quite usable.
+1. We are going to have to find a way to work with ALPN and Java8. The
OpenSSL + NIO/NIO2 option looks like the way to go at the moment.
>> It will be probably interesting to promote an intermediate tomcat version
>> with HTTP/2 and related features but without a servlet 4.0 do we want to
>> do that?
>>
>
> Yes, the problem is that the next EE is too far away. A new 8.x would have
> to supersede the current 8.0 though otherwise it would be too difficult for
> maintenance. However, there are significant addition/changes to the
> configuration in trunk.
HTTP/2 isn't stable right now. One of my more recent changes (I suspect
the old stream clean-up) is triggering crashes with APR. I should be
able to get that fixed in time for ApacheCon and put together a
9.0.0.ALPHA release.
Back-porting HTTP/2 (once it is stable) to 8.x would require
back-porting the connector clean-up which in turn means dropping BIO and
comet support for an 8.1.x release series. I think it would be worth
gauging community reaction to such a move first since I agree we would
have to stop support for 8.0.x. It might be preferable to have 9.0.x
BETA releases that are only beta because the Servlet API is not fixed.
Mark
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Re: ApacheCon tomcat9 or tomcat-trunk
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
2015-09-10 10:13 GMT+02:00 jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> I have a wording questions from my ApacheCon presentations, I am using
> tomcat9 to speak about trunk but basically tomcat9 should be with java9 and
> the new servlet specifications. AKA far future.
>
I'm not sure it will require Java 9. Using ALPN would require either Java 9
or OpenSSL, I think that is going to be the most likely scenario, so Java 8
would remain quite usable.
>
> It will be probably interesting to promote an intermediate tomcat version
> with HTTP/2 and related features but without a servlet 4.0 do we want to
> do that?
>
Yes, the problem is that the next EE is too far away. A new 8.x would have
to supersede the current 8.0 though otherwise it would be too difficult for
maintenance. However, there are significant addition/changes to the
configuration in trunk.
Rémy