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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> on 2006/11/03 02:04:30 UTC
How to bring code to Apache?
One thing that came out of the board meeting was making sure that the
community knew how to bring code into the ASF. What the scenarios are,
and what the rules are.
Looking around at the Incubator, it's well documented at
http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/, and I'd like to send a
short email to committers@ pointing out the existence of that page and
that even if code is written by Apache committers, if it's not
developed at Apache then that page needs to be adhered to.
Any thoughts on the below?
-----
To: committers@apache.org
Subject: Bringing code to Apache
Hello ASF committers,
At the recent board meeting the subject of whether the committers were
all aware of how to handle bringing code to Apache and doing IP
clearances. It was felt that a reminder would not be a bad idea (OK I
admit it - I admitted to not being sure how it worked and stepped
right into being a 'volunteer'). Here goes....
We're all aware of the Incubator. If we have a project out there that
wants to join the ASF then we direct them to the
general@incubator.apache.org mailing list and their community becomes
an ASF community through a mentored education process. All good, but
it doesn't cover large lumps of code that we want to bring into our
projects in the ASF, into an already existing community.
For these cases we have IP clearance. It applies regardless of whether
the author of the code is an ASF committer or not an ASF committer -
the important part is that the code was developed outside of the ASF
SVN repository and the ASF public mailing lists.
This takes the form of an xdoc xml template that needs to be filled
out and checked into the Incubator SVN, please see this page for more
details - http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/.
Thanks, and sorry for the noise if this was something you already knew.
Henri Yandell
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Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson" <jt...@bristowhill.com>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> One thing that came out of the board meeting was making sure that the
> community knew how to bring code into the ASF. What the scenarios are,
> and what the rules are.
>
> Looking around at the Incubator, it's well documented at
> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/, and I'd like to send a
> short email to committers@ pointing out the existence of that page and
> that even if code is written by Apache committers, if it's not
> developed at Apache then that page needs to be adhered to.
>
> Any thoughts on the below?
On the ip-clearance page under the "Additional Notes" section, it says
how to handle a contribution by multiple parties instead of by a single
entity. Two options are listed and both involve the multiple parties
signing a software grant.
For Cayenne, we understood the project should just obtain iCLAs from all
past contributors (which Cayenne did, and they reimplemented any pieces
by contributors whom could not be found). I seem to recall there was
another podling this year that was handled similarly. Can that be listed
as a valid third option?
-jean
> -----
>
> To: committers@apache.org
> Subject: Bringing code to Apache
>
> Hello ASF committers,
>
> At the recent board meeting the subject of whether the committers were
> all aware of how to handle bringing code to Apache and doing IP
> clearances. It was felt that a reminder would not be a bad idea (OK I
> admit it - I admitted to not being sure how it worked and stepped
> right into being a 'volunteer'). Here goes....
>
> We're all aware of the Incubator. If we have a project out there that
> wants to join the ASF then we direct them to the
> general@incubator.apache.org mailing list and their community becomes
> an ASF community through a mentored education process. All good, but
> it doesn't cover large lumps of code that we want to bring into our
> projects in the ASF, into an already existing community.
>
> For these cases we have IP clearance. It applies regardless of whether
> the author of the code is an ASF committer or not an ASF committer -
> the important part is that the code was developed outside of the ASF
> SVN repository and the ASF public mailing lists.
>
> This takes the form of an xdoc xml template that needs to be filled
> out and checked into the Incubator SVN, please see this page for more
> details - http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/.
>
> Thanks, and sorry for the noise if this was something you already knew.
>
> Henri Yandell
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
For the IP clearance stuff... yes.
But code developed outside of the Apache community, then brought in...
that can be a problem. Especially when that is the "standard operating
procedure". I can think of a couple communities where a lot of code is
migrated from external locations into Apache. The net effect is code
is developed *outside* of the Apache consensus model. That isn't good.
Cheers,
-g
On 11/4/06, Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org> wrote:
> The "important part" here is not to validate the process but the
> provenance of the code being contributed. It does not matter whether
> the code was developed in an open or closed manner, by one individual
> or by many, what we have a responsibility to establish is that the
> code can legally be contributed to the ASF.
>
> Unlike an employer, the ASF has no initial rights to any code; those
> are granted to it through the ICLA when the code is contributed. We
> operate on an ongoing assumption that the committer abides by the
> ICLA and does actually have the rights to contribute that code.
> However, for any body of code we (the ASF) should have the ability to
> ask the committer to reconfirm this, especially if there is increased
> potential that the IP for the code is not owned solely by them (as
> would be the case if it was developed by multiple people or for an
> employer outside a CCLA). AIUI, that is the role of the IP Clearance
> process: to obtain that confirmation.
>
> The openness of the development process used is only relevant here to
> the extent that it exposes the provenance of the code - an open
> process allows us to backtrack and see who created the code and owns
> the IP. It's much more of an issue for the receiving PMC in gauging
> the health of the community.
>
> I'd suggest changing that part to something like "the important part
> is whether anyone else may own any of the code, for example if it was
> developed with other people or as part of your job"
>
> --
> Jeremy
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Posted by Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org>.
The "important part" here is not to validate the process but the
provenance of the code being contributed. It does not matter whether
the code was developed in an open or closed manner, by one individual
or by many, what we have a responsibility to establish is that the
code can legally be contributed to the ASF.
Unlike an employer, the ASF has no initial rights to any code; those
are granted to it through the ICLA when the code is contributed. We
operate on an ongoing assumption that the committer abides by the
ICLA and does actually have the rights to contribute that code.
However, for any body of code we (the ASF) should have the ability to
ask the committer to reconfirm this, especially if there is increased
potential that the IP for the code is not owned solely by them (as
would be the case if it was developed by multiple people or for an
employer outside a CCLA). AIUI, that is the role of the IP Clearance
process: to obtain that confirmation.
The openness of the development process used is only relevant here to
the extent that it exposes the provenance of the code - an open
process allows us to backtrack and see who created the code and owns
the IP. It's much more of an issue for the receiving PMC in gauging
the health of the community.
I'd suggest changing that part to something like "the important part
is whether anyone else may own any of the code, for example if it was
developed with other people or as part of your job"
--
Jeremy
On Nov 3, 2006, at 2:09 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 11/3/06, Daniel John Debrunner <dj...@debrunners.com> wrote:
>> Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > Any thoughts on the below?
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > the important part is that the code was developed outside of the
>> ASF
>> > SVN repository and the ASF public mailing lists.
>>
>> I struggle with what that really means. Code is technically
>> developed in
>> IDEs on people's machines, not on mailing lists.
>
> Agreed - to the point that I used the text on the documentation page
> rather than trying to paraphrase it.
>
> The other phrase I've heard is:
>
> "Created using the ASF development process"
>
>> If I create a new file for an ASF project it's developed on my
>> machine
>> and subsequently committed to the project or posted as a patch. So
>> for
>> sometime the new file was outside the ASF SVN repository and not
>> visible
>> on a public mailing list.
>>
>> What really makes something developed "inside" the ASF?
>> - intention to contribute to a project?
>
> Definitely not.
>
>> - JIRA entry created before the file is created?
>
> Not important.
>
>> - discussion in mailing list before the file is created?
>
> Openness is a lot of it - so this is often a good example of openness.
>
>> - creating the file in a local SVN copy from the ASF SVN?
>
> I think this can be a warning sign. If a large 'svn add' commit is
> done, then it's a warning sign to ask whether the change was developed
> openly.
>
> The barracks-lawyer (aka pain in the arse) in me looks at the
> documentation and thinks "What if it was on a public asf mailing list,
> was by people with asf clas but didn't use the svn repos?". I think
> getting the answer for that would not be worth the small effort
> required to file an ip clearance - but if the style was to have an
> external svn and then slowly bring pieces over, it might be worth
> figuring it out. Biggest question here would be 'why not the asf
> svn?'.
>
> Another case that is interesting is 'the big rewrite' style of commit.
> If someone works on the next version of their project on their own and
> then code dumps a lot of changes in, that also seems like it's going
> to need IP clearance.
>
> Hen
>
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Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 11/3/06, Daniel John Debrunner <dj...@debrunners.com> wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Any thoughts on the below?
>
> [snip]
>
> > the important part is that the code was developed outside of the ASF
> > SVN repository and the ASF public mailing lists.
>
> I struggle with what that really means. Code is technically developed in
> IDEs on people's machines, not on mailing lists.
Agreed - to the point that I used the text on the documentation page
rather than trying to paraphrase it.
The other phrase I've heard is:
"Created using the ASF development process"
> If I create a new file for an ASF project it's developed on my machine
> and subsequently committed to the project or posted as a patch. So for
> sometime the new file was outside the ASF SVN repository and not visible
> on a public mailing list.
>
> What really makes something developed "inside" the ASF?
> - intention to contribute to a project?
Definitely not.
> - JIRA entry created before the file is created?
Not important.
> - discussion in mailing list before the file is created?
Openness is a lot of it - so this is often a good example of openness.
> - creating the file in a local SVN copy from the ASF SVN?
I think this can be a warning sign. If a large 'svn add' commit is
done, then it's a warning sign to ask whether the change was developed
openly.
The barracks-lawyer (aka pain in the arse) in me looks at the
documentation and thinks "What if it was on a public asf mailing list,
was by people with asf clas but didn't use the svn repos?". I think
getting the answer for that would not be worth the small effort
required to file an ip clearance - but if the style was to have an
external svn and then slowly bring pieces over, it might be worth
figuring it out. Biggest question here would be 'why not the asf
svn?'.
Another case that is interesting is 'the big rewrite' style of commit.
If someone works on the next version of their project on their own and
then code dumps a lot of changes in, that also seems like it's going
to need IP clearance.
Hen
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Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Posted by Daniel John Debrunner <dj...@debrunners.com>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
[snip]
> Any thoughts on the below?
[snip]
> the important part is that the code was developed outside of the ASF
> SVN repository and the ASF public mailing lists.
I struggle with what that really means. Code is technically developed in
IDEs on people's machines, not on mailing lists.
If I create a new file for an ASF project it's developed on my machine
and subsequently committed to the project or posted as a patch. So for
sometime the new file was outside the ASF SVN repository and not visible
on a public mailing list.
What really makes something developed "inside" the ASF?
- intention to contribute to a project?
- JIRA entry created before the file is created?
- discussion in mailing list before the file is created?
- creating the file in a local SVN copy from the ASF SVN?
Dan.
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Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 11/17/06, Jean T. Anderson <jt...@bristowhill.com> wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
> > One thing that came out of the board meeting was making sure that the
> > community knew how to bring code into the ASF. What the scenarios are,
> > and what the rules are.
>
> I'm looking at some logistics and have been following what I see other
> ASF projects doing. Are the steps below good for a general list of tasks
> to cover when bringing in code?
>
> 1) Upload the code to a new Jira issue.
> 2) Fax the software grant form to the ASF secretary.
> 3) Call a vote on the dev list to accept the contribution.
> 4) Fill in the IP clearance template and add it to the Incubator repo.
> 5) Announce the contribution to the Incubator PMC. If no issues are
> raised in 72 hours, then the code can be checked into the code repo.
looks good to me
> Now, step 2 (software grant) actually has two options:
>
> - CCLA Schedule B (http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt)
> - Software grant (http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt)
>
> Does it matter which option is used? Is the rest of the process the same
> for both?
AIUI it depends on the nature of the grant
the software grant is the basic document
however, if a corporation wants to donate code and wants to continue
to develop the code at apache then it's more convenient to use the
CCLA (filling in the relevant section).
- robert
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Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson" <jt...@bristowhill.com>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> One thing that came out of the board meeting was making sure that the
> community knew how to bring code into the ASF. What the scenarios are,
> and what the rules are.
I'm looking at some logistics and have been following what I see other
ASF projects doing. Are the steps below good for a general list of tasks
to cover when bringing in code?
1) Upload the code to a new Jira issue.
2) Fax the software grant form to the ASF secretary.
3) Call a vote on the dev list to accept the contribution.
4) Fill in the IP clearance template and add it to the Incubator repo.
5) Announce the contribution to the Incubator PMC. If no issues are
raised in 72 hours, then the code can be checked into the code repo.
Now, step 2 (software grant) actually has two options:
- CCLA Schedule B (http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt)
- Software grant (http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt)
Does it matter which option is used? Is the rest of the process the same
for both?
-jean
> Looking around at the Incubator, it's well documented at
> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/, and I'd like to send a
> short email to committers@ pointing out the existence of that page and
> that even if code is written by Apache committers, if it's not
> developed at Apache then that page needs to be adhered to.
>
> Any thoughts on the below?
>
> -----
>
> To: committers@apache.org
> Subject: Bringing code to Apache
>
> Hello ASF committers,
>
> At the recent board meeting the subject of whether the committers were
> all aware of how to handle bringing code to Apache and doing IP
> clearances. It was felt that a reminder would not be a bad idea (OK I
> admit it - I admitted to not being sure how it worked and stepped
> right into being a 'volunteer'). Here goes....
>
> We're all aware of the Incubator. If we have a project out there that
> wants to join the ASF then we direct them to the
> general@incubator.apache.org mailing list and their community becomes
> an ASF community through a mentored education process. All good, but
> it doesn't cover large lumps of code that we want to bring into our
> projects in the ASF, into an already existing community.
>
> For these cases we have IP clearance. It applies regardless of whether
> the author of the code is an ASF committer or not an ASF committer -
> the important part is that the code was developed outside of the ASF
> SVN repository and the ASF public mailing lists.
>
> This takes the form of an xdoc xml template that needs to be filled
> out and checked into the Incubator SVN, please see this page for more
> details - http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/.
>
> Thanks, and sorry for the noise if this was something you already knew.
>
> Henri Yandell
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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