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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> on 2004/12/04 14:05:51 UTC

Re: plugin for DITA

scott hutinger wrote:

[This mail was originally an private thread, however it has migrated to 
Forrest Dev related stuff so I have moved the relevant stuff here for 
transparency and wider comment if necessary]

> But, the point is, Derby has transformed it's documentation into DITA.  
> This is an IBM .dtd type of thing.
> 
> I started a plugin for DITA.  Should this be within org.apache.forrest, 
> org.apache.derby, com.ibm.... or what?

Probably org.apache.derby since this means they will maintain it 
(hopefully). It will still be listed in the plugins.xml file and so will 
still be freely available to other Forrest users.

> It will take a bit to figure it all out, as it goes from a strange .dtd 
> to other items.  Is this all going through the pipeline, or would it be 
> multiple plugins.

I couldn't be certain without knowing more about DITA, but I'll give the 
generic answer:

I have heard of DITA once before. In that thread it was mentioned that 
there are a set of DITA to HTML XLST stylesheets. It would, probably, be 
best to leverage those and not convert to Forrests xdoc format.

I would *guess* you need to:

DITA --> HTML --> XDoc --> Forrest site
      /\        /\       /\
      1         2        3

1 would be the DITA XSLT's

2 would be the html2document.xsl

3 is the normal Forrest stuff

1 & 2 would be your DITA input plugin.

> I'm starting to read cocoon docs.  

The important stuff is sitemaps, but there should be enough in the 
FOrrest docs to get you started. Feel free to ask how to do things here. 
We'd love to see Forrest having a plugin for DITA.

> Also, should 
> forrest add some output's that cocoon has for free as plugins?  It would 
> be nice to have wap and other things for free.

+1 (would they really be for free?)

Ross

Re: plugin for DITA

Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
scott hutinger wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> 
>> Dave Brondsema wrote:
>>
>>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave Brondsema wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> scott hutinger wrote:
>>>>>>

...

>>>>>> I would *guess* you need to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DITA --> HTML --> XDoc --> Forrest site
>>>>>>      /\        /\       /\
>>>>>>      1         2        3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 would be the DITA XSLT's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 would be the .xsl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3 is the normal Forrest stuff
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 & 2 would be your DITA input plugin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 is part of forrest core so the DITA input plugin should only do 
>>>>> 1.  Right?
>>>>

...

>>> What I wanted to make clear is that the input plugin can produce an 
>>> html document and that is enough.  It does not have to do the 
>>> conversion to our current intermediate format (xdoc).
>>

...

>>
> If one were to completely control the output, then the transformation to 
> html would be all one would need to do.  But to follow forrest, one 
> could output to xdoc format.  Wouldn't it be better to transform to xdoc?

In the past, yes, but what you may not realise is that we are planning 
on moving the internal Forrest format to XHTML in the next release.

Some (most?) projects provide stylesheets that convert to HTML from 
their internal formats. These stylesheets will be quite complete in most 
cases (in a previous thread we were led to believe that this is the case 
with DITA, but I have not checked this out). If the DITA stylesheets are 
suitable for creating just the content part of a Forrest page (i.e. no 
navigation etc.) then it would make sense to use them as there would be 
much less maintenance for us to do on the plugin.

We already support HTML as a source format so there is little work needs 
to be done to use the output from DITA's documents. There will be some 
tweaking needed of this functionality in Forrest as it has not yet been 
used in a wide variety of formats, but it makes sense since once it is 
fully working we can support any input format that has stylesheets to 
convert to (X)HTML.

Doing it the other way, converting to XDoc, will only be useful for 
DITA. For much more on this topic see the discussion about supporting 
full Docbook (very long thread) 
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=forrest-dev&m=109864360321750&w=2

However, if you know something about the DITA stylesheets that we don't 
know you may be right, as I said this is the *generic* answer.

Ross

Re: plugin for DITA

Posted by scott hutinger <s-...@wiu.edu>.
Ross Gardler wrote:

> Dave Brondsema wrote:
>
>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Brondsema wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> scott hutinger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It will take a bit to figure it all out, as it goes from a 
>>>>>> strange .dtd to other items.  Is this all going through the 
>>>>>> pipeline, or would it be multiple plugins.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't be certain without knowing more about DITA, but I'll 
>>>>> give the generic answer:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have heard of DITA once before. In that thread it was mentioned 
>>>>> that there are a set of DITA to HTML XLST stylesheets. It would, 
>>>>> probably, be best to leverage those and not convert to Forrests 
>>>>> xdoc format.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would *guess* you need to:
>>>>>
>>>>> DITA --> HTML --> XDoc --> Forrest site
>>>>>      /\        /\       /\
>>>>>      1         2        3
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 would be the DITA XSLT's
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 would be the .xsl
>>>>>
>>>>> 3 is the normal Forrest stuff
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 & 2 would be your DITA input plugin.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2 is part of forrest core so the DITA input plugin should only do 
>>>> 1.  Right?
>>>
>>>
>
> ...
>
>> What I wanted to make clear is that the input plugin can produce an 
>> html document and that is enough.  It does not have to do the 
>> conversion to our current intermediate format (xdoc).
>
>
> +1
>
> Ross
>
If one were to completely control the output, then the transformation to 
html would be all one would need to do.  But to follow forrest, one 
could output to xdoc format.  Wouldn't it be better to transform to xdoc?

scott

Re: plugin for DITA

Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Dave Brondsema wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Dave Brondsema wrote:
>>
>>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>
>>>> scott hutinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It will take a bit to figure it all out, as it goes from a strange 
>>>>> .dtd to other items.  Is this all going through the pipeline, or 
>>>>> would it be multiple plugins.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't be certain without knowing more about DITA, but I'll give 
>>>> the generic answer:
>>>>
>>>> I have heard of DITA once before. In that thread it was mentioned 
>>>> that there are a set of DITA to HTML XLST stylesheets. It would, 
>>>> probably, be best to leverage those and not convert to Forrests xdoc 
>>>> format.
>>>>
>>>> I would *guess* you need to:
>>>>
>>>> DITA --> HTML --> XDoc --> Forrest site
>>>>      /\        /\       /\
>>>>      1         2        3
>>>>
>>>> 1 would be the DITA XSLT's
>>>>
>>>> 2 would be the .xsl
>>>>
>>>> 3 is the normal Forrest stuff
>>>>
>>>> 1 & 2 would be your DITA input plugin.
>>>>
>>>
>>> 2 is part of forrest core so the DITA input plugin should only do 1.  
>>> Right?
>>

...

> What I wanted to make clear is that the input plugin can produce an html 
> document and that is enough.  It does not have to do the conversion to 
> our current intermediate format (xdoc).

+1

Ross

Re: plugin for DITA

Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> 
> 
> Dave Brondsema wrote:
> 
>> Ross Gardler wrote:
>>
>>> scott hutinger wrote:
>>>
>>>> It will take a bit to figure it all out, as it goes from a strange 
>>>> .dtd to other items.  Is this all going through the pipeline, or 
>>>> would it be multiple plugins.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I couldn't be certain without knowing more about DITA, but I'll give 
>>> the generic answer:
>>>
>>> I have heard of DITA once before. In that thread it was mentioned 
>>> that there are a set of DITA to HTML XLST stylesheets. It would, 
>>> probably, be best to leverage those and not convert to Forrests xdoc 
>>> format.
>>>
>>> I would *guess* you need to:
>>>
>>> DITA --> HTML --> XDoc --> Forrest site
>>>      /\        /\       /\
>>>      1         2        3
>>>
>>> 1 would be the DITA XSLT's
>>>
>>> 2 would be the .xsl
>>>
>>> 3 is the normal Forrest stuff
>>>
>>> 1 & 2 would be your DITA input plugin.
>>>
>>
>> 2 is part of forrest core so the DITA input plugin should only do 1.  
>> Right?
> 
> 
> Yes, it appears I forgot to type document2html in the description of 2.
> 
> Ross

No, I accidentally deleted it.  Sorry for the confusion :-)

What I wanted to make clear is that the input plugin can produce an html 
document and that is enough.  It does not have to do the conversion to 
our current intermediate format (xdoc).

-- 
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.splike.com : programming
http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
http://www.brondsema.net : personal

Re: plugin for DITA

Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.

Dave Brondsema wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> 
>> scott hutinger wrote:
>>
>>> It will take a bit to figure it all out, as it goes from a strange 
>>> .dtd to other items.  Is this all going through the pipeline, or 
>>> would it be multiple plugins.
>>
>>
>>
>> I couldn't be certain without knowing more about DITA, but I'll give 
>> the generic answer:
>>
>> I have heard of DITA once before. In that thread it was mentioned that 
>> there are a set of DITA to HTML XLST stylesheets. It would, probably, 
>> be best to leverage those and not convert to Forrests xdoc format.
>>
>> I would *guess* you need to:
>>
>> DITA --> HTML --> XDoc --> Forrest site
>>      /\        /\       /\
>>      1         2        3
>>
>> 1 would be the DITA XSLT's
>>
>> 2 would be the .xsl
>>
>> 3 is the normal Forrest stuff
>>
>> 1 & 2 would be your DITA input plugin.
>>
> 
> 2 is part of forrest core so the DITA input plugin should only do 1.  
> Right?

Yes, it appears I forgot to type document2html in the description of 2.

Ross

Re: plugin for DITA

Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> scott hutinger wrote:
>> It will take a bit to figure it all out, as it goes from a strange 
>> .dtd to other items.  Is this all going through the pipeline, or would 
>> it be multiple plugins.
> 
> 
> I couldn't be certain without knowing more about DITA, but I'll give the 
> generic answer:
> 
> I have heard of DITA once before. In that thread it was mentioned that 
> there are a set of DITA to HTML XLST stylesheets. It would, probably, be 
> best to leverage those and not convert to Forrests xdoc format.
> 
> I would *guess* you need to:
> 
> DITA --> HTML --> XDoc --> Forrest site
>      /\        /\       /\
>      1         2        3
> 
> 1 would be the DITA XSLT's
> 
> 2 would be the .xsl
> 
> 3 is the normal Forrest stuff
> 
> 1 & 2 would be your DITA input plugin.
> 

2 is part of forrest core so the DITA input plugin should only do 1.  Right?


-- 
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.splike.com : programming
http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
http://www.brondsema.net : personal