RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen

[David Johnson <d_...@cox-internet.com>]

To beat a dead horse, religious arguments notwithstanding ...

I agree that I find taglibs impossible to understand.  I end up
compiling the jsp to a servlet, then using the servlet as a skeleton
that I refine and tune, and I finally dispose of the original jsp simply
because I can't wrap my head around taglibs.  To me, Java is simpler and
easier for me to understand than the "black magic" of the taglibs.

However, GUI designers aren't programmers, and they typically find java
as impossible to understand as I find taglibs.  If your shop has good
separation of GUI and applications disciplines, taglibs are an
indispensable bridge between the disciplines.

C versus C++ ...

In my comparative performance tests of Java (sun jre 1.4.2 b03) versus
compiled languages, Java had raw performance within 10% of the compiled
language.  This was not an exhaustive test, but one that was intended to
hit Java's weakest point relative to a native compiler.  Both sets of
code were as identical as the language intents allowed, and were
iterated through several identical optimizations to pinpoint different
bottlenecks.

The 10% performance hit was pinpointed to the stackframe that is built
with every {} pair in Java, which in turn eliminates an entire class of
memory leak errors.

For a 10% performance hit, I can live with Java for application
programming.  However, I recognize that there are places where that hit
is critical, and I would use a compiled language (probably not C++, I'd
prefer pascal derivatives or even assembly, but language is a personal
preference, not a functional issue now days).


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Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen

[Vy Ho <st...@drexel.edu>]

I have used Java for both client, server, GUI apps, and clients haven't 
complaint about speed or look and feel.

For the tag libs argument that web designers will have easier time with 
it than java, good luck!  They have to learn them anyway to get things 
to work, and it's no different.

Saying "tag libs separate model and view" is half true.  It depends.  
It's probably good for tools to generate view using tag libs.  For 
programmer, separating or not is their choice.

Having a mixed languages in source code is hard to read.  I think that 
people should use Java as much as possible, anywhere (view, model, what 
not).  However, in the view area, you can also use tags if that speeds 
development time, or simplify thing, or if java is not possible to do 
so.  In all cases, do not put model code in the view.  In the view, if 
you use <if> or if()..., they're both logics and no architural 
difference here.



Harry Mantheakis wrote:

>Hello
>
>
>  
>
>>I agree that I find taglibs impossible to understand.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Tag libraries are not actually that difficult, and offer many advantages.
>
>I just thought I would mention that, for the record :-)
>
>Harry Mantheakis
>London, UK
>
>
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>  
>


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Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen

[Harry Mantheakis <ha...@mantheakis.freeserve.co.uk>]

Hello


> I agree that I find taglibs impossible to understand.


Tag libraries are not actually that difficult, and offer many advantages.

I just thought I would mention that, for the record :-)

Harry Mantheakis
London, UK


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