performance: Derby vs H2

[Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com>]

Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby

A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is faster,
but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
SQL Java databases" section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks

Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??

And there is also H2's benchmark page:

http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html

Is it a fair comparsion??

Rayson

Re: performance: Derby vs H2

[Brett Wooldridge <br...@gmail.com>]

Speed is important, but so is stability.  H2 does not have anywhere
near the track record of Derby. There are hundreds of thousands of
Derby installations running 24/7.  I have used Derby for years, as
have my customers, in mission critical applications and I have never
experienced a corruption or failure.

Unless you are doing something truly advanced Derby is fast enough.
For those other cases, H2 would also be unsuitable.  You would need
something like PostgreSQL or Oracle.

Brett

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 23, 2010, at 4:44, Rami Ojares <ra...@pdf-comics.com>
wrote:

> I think the best authority on this is Thomas Mueller (father of h2)
> who has actually done some performance comparisons between databases.
> I remember reading some debate about this on some discussion groups
> a year or two ago.
> If you want peer reviewed scientific knowledge then you probably
> should run those tests yourself.
>
> I have seen sometimes Sun employees referring on this list to some
> sort of benchmarks for derby.
> But I have not found anything public from google.
>
> I think the countless benchmarks published by different database
> companies have proven that
> performance is such a complex issue that any type of result can be
> manufactured.
> However when done well and extensively they can give some overall
> understanding.
>
> Because H2 has only one developer the code is a bit more
> straightforward and simpler than Derby that has a rich and long
> history as a codebase.
> Therefore I think that H2 is a tad cleaner and faster than Derby in
> basic operation.
> Both databases have queries that are very slow.
> One could call them bugs.
>
> - rami
>
> On 22.4.2010 19:47, Rayson Ho wrote:
>> Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby
>>
>> A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is
>> faster,
>> but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
>> seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
>> SQL Java databases" section.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks
>>
>> Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??
>>
>> And there is also H2's benchmark page:
>>
>> http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html
>>
>> Is it a fair comparsion??
>>
>> Rayson
>>
>

Re: performance: Derby vs H2

[Rami Ojares <ra...@pdf-comics.com>]

I think the best authority on this is Thomas Mueller (father of h2) who 
has actually done some performance comparisons between databases.
I remember reading some debate about this on some discussion groups a 
year or two ago.
If you want peer reviewed scientific knowledge then you probably should 
run those tests yourself.

I have seen sometimes Sun employees referring on this list to some sort 
of benchmarks for derby.
But I have not found anything public from google.

I think the countless benchmarks published by different database 
companies have proven that
performance is such a complex issue that any type of result can be 
manufactured.
However when done well and extensively they can give some overall 
understanding.

Because H2 has only one developer the code is a bit more straightforward 
and simpler than Derby that has a rich and long history as a codebase.
Therefore I think that H2 is a tad cleaner and faster than Derby in 
basic operation.
Both databases have queries that are very slow.
One could call them bugs.

- rami

On 22.4.2010 19:47, Rayson Ho wrote:
> Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby
>
> A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is faster,
> but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
> seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
> SQL Java databases" section.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks
>
> Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??
>
> And there is also H2's benchmark page:
>
> http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html
>
> Is it a fair comparsion??
>
> Rayson
>    

Re: performance: Derby vs H2

[Peter Ondruška <pe...@gmail.com>]

Not really. By stability I mean being happy "Derby" user since its
Cloudscape ages..

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Peter Ondruška
> <pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rayson, some/most of us are looking for best performance AND best stability/scalability/tools/etc.
>
> Thanks for the reply, Peter.
>
> By stability, you mean ACID kind of stability??
>
> Rayson
>
>
>
>>
>> When I look for performance I usually go with Berkeley DB JE ;-)
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:06 PM, bruehlicke <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> It is a unconstructive question to ask. It depends on many
>>>> requirements and situations.
>>>
>>> I guess I just got an unconstructive answer from you :-D
>>>
>>> I am trying to find out whether the benchmarks they used are fair, and
>>> whether the Derby developers know that H2 is "faster".
>>>
>>> Even with unfair benchmarks that make H2 really shine, can't Derby
>>> learn from H2??
>>>
>>> And no, I don't have an application that I need to choose between Derby or H2.
>>>
>>> Rayson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is a car faster than an airplane ? Well
>>>> if I have to go to the next corner shopping mall to pick up some milk
>>>> your forgot, this is most likely the case.
>>>>
>>>> So try it out - and if you think one is faster than the other for your
>>>> particular situation - go for it. For me the maturity, support, proven
>>>> deployments and scalability together with features available are the
>>>> key driving forces.
>>>>
>>>> B-)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby
>>>>>
>>>>> A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is faster,
>>>>> but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
>>>>> seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
>>>>> SQL Java databases" section.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??
>>>>>
>>>>> And there is also H2's benchmark page:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it a fair comparsion??
>>>>>
>>>>> Rayson
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: performance: Derby vs H2

[Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Peter Ondruška
<pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rayson, some/most of us are looking for best performance AND best stability/scalability/tools/etc.

Thanks for the reply, Peter.

By stability, you mean ACID kind of stability??

Rayson



>
> When I look for performance I usually go with Berkeley DB JE ;-)
>
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:06 PM, bruehlicke <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It is a unconstructive question to ask. It depends on many
>>> requirements and situations.
>>
>> I guess I just got an unconstructive answer from you :-D
>>
>> I am trying to find out whether the benchmarks they used are fair, and
>> whether the Derby developers know that H2 is "faster".
>>
>> Even with unfair benchmarks that make H2 really shine, can't Derby
>> learn from H2??
>>
>> And no, I don't have an application that I need to choose between Derby or H2.
>>
>> Rayson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Is a car faster than an airplane ? Well
>>> if I have to go to the next corner shopping mall to pick up some milk
>>> your forgot, this is most likely the case.
>>>
>>> So try it out - and if you think one is faster than the other for your
>>> particular situation - go for it. For me the maturity, support, proven
>>> deployments and scalability together with features available are the
>>> key driving forces.
>>>
>>> B-)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby
>>>>
>>>> A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is faster,
>>>> but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
>>>> seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
>>>> SQL Java databases" section.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks
>>>>
>>>> Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??
>>>>
>>>> And there is also H2's benchmark page:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html
>>>>
>>>> Is it a fair comparsion??
>>>>
>>>> Rayson
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: performance: Derby vs H2

[Peter Ondruška <pe...@gmail.com>]

Rayson, some/most of us are looking for best performance AND best
stability/scalability/tools/etc.

When I look for performance I usually go with Berkeley DB JE ;-)

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:06 PM, bruehlicke <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It is a unconstructive question to ask. It depends on many
>> requirements and situations.
>
> I guess I just got an unconstructive answer from you :-D
>
> I am trying to find out whether the benchmarks they used are fair, and
> whether the Derby developers know that H2 is "faster".
>
> Even with unfair benchmarks that make H2 really shine, can't Derby
> learn from H2??
>
> And no, I don't have an application that I need to choose between Derby or H2.
>
> Rayson
>
>
>
>
>> Is a car faster than an airplane ? Well
>> if I have to go to the next corner shopping mall to pick up some milk
>> your forgot, this is most likely the case.
>>
>> So try it out - and if you think one is faster than the other for your
>> particular situation - go for it. For me the maturity, support, proven
>> deployments and scalability together with features available are the
>> key driving forces.
>>
>> B-)
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby
>>>
>>> A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is faster,
>>> but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
>>> seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
>>> SQL Java databases" section.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks
>>>
>>> Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??
>>>
>>> And there is also H2's benchmark page:
>>>
>>> http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html
>>>
>>> Is it a fair comparsion??
>>>
>>> Rayson
>>>
>>
>

Re: performance: Derby vs H2

[Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:06 PM, bruehlicke <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is a unconstructive question to ask. It depends on many
> requirements and situations.

I guess I just got an unconstructive answer from you :-D

I am trying to find out whether the benchmarks they used are fair, and
whether the Derby developers know that H2 is "faster".

Even with unfair benchmarks that make H2 really shine, can't Derby
learn from H2??

And no, I don't have an application that I need to choose between Derby or H2.

Rayson




> Is a car faster than an airplane ? Well
> if I have to go to the next corner shopping mall to pick up some milk
> your forgot, this is most likely the case.
>
> So try it out - and if you think one is faster than the other for your
> particular situation - go for it. For me the maturity, support, proven
> deployments and scalability together with features available are the
> key driving forces.
>
> B-)
>
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby
>>
>> A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is faster,
>> but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
>> seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
>> SQL Java databases" section.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks
>>
>> Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??
>>
>> And there is also H2's benchmark page:
>>
>> http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html
>>
>> Is it a fair comparsion??
>>
>> Rayson
>>
>

Re: performance: Derby vs H2

[bruehlicke <br...@gmail.com>]

It is a unconstructive question to ask. It depends on many
requirements and situations. Is a car faster than an airplane ? Well
if I have to go to the next corner shopping mall to pick up some milk
your forgot, this is most likely the case.

So try it out - and if you think one is faster than the other for your
particular situation - go for it. For me the maturity, support, proven
deployments and scalability together with features available are the
key driving forces.

B-)

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Rayson Ho <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it really true that H2 is faster than Derby??
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Derby
>
> A year ago, I tried to remove the section that says that H2 is faster,
> but someone always added it back into the article. And besides me,
> seems like no one really care about the "Comparison to other embedded
> SQL Java databases" section.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apache_Derby#Benchmarks
>
> Is it a well-known fact that H2 is always faster??
>
> And there is also H2's benchmark page:
>
> http://www.h2database.com/html/performance.html
>
> Is it a fair comparsion??
>
> Rayson
>