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Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2003/08/13 21:57:29 UTC
request for help with reproducing problem
Recently I have found myself spending most of the time trying to reproduce
reported bugs (and non-bugs), instead of resolving the already known bugs.
Often times it takes a long time and multiple emails to get all the required
information from the user reporting the problem to be able to reproduce the
problem or to prove it to be a problem in the user code, and many times I
can't reproduce problems on linux and my guess-work is not always successful.
It'd be very helpful if folks gave us help to reproduce problems, so we can
concentrate on fixing them. You don't have to understand mod_perl internals or
to know C to reproduce problems. Just read the report, see if you can
reproduce it, ask the person about the missing details (mostly listed here:
http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/user/help/help.html#Reporting_Problems
http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/help.html#How_to_Report_Problems) and
see if you can help the reporter to get a better bug report.
The preferred way to help developers reproduce problems is to write a new test
(or modify an existing test) for the mod_perl test suite, which when you run
fails. or at least write a simple very short script/handler that can be
converted into a test. But you really want to learn how to write tests with
Apache::Test if you do any serious mod_perl development, so there is no excuse
not to learn Apache::Test, not talking about the fact that there are hundreds
of existing tests as examples, the tutorial
http://perl.apache.org/docs/general/testing/testing.html and the slowly
growing manpages. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask here or on
the test-dev list.
Also please notice that some bug reports are posted to the dev list
http://perl.apache.org/maillist/dev.html so monitoring both lists is a good idea.
Thanks for your help.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
Re: request for help with reproducing problem
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
> perl -MApache::Test::Skeleton -e create My::Project
>
> it will create the tree using the My-Project name as the top dir and all
> the files in it using My-Project
I just saw this:
CGI::Wiki - A toolkit for building Wikis.
http://search.cpan.org/author/KAKE/CGI-Wiki-0.46/
I haven't looked at the code, but it may be something that we want to adopt
for Apache-Test Skeleton.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: request for help with reproducing problem
Posted by Geoffrey Young <ge...@modperlcookbook.org>.
> when a user says:
>
> perl -MApache::Test::Skeleton -e create My::Project
>
> it will create the tree using the My-Project name as the top dir and all
> the files in it using My-Project
>
> Hmm, basically we reinvent h2xs or what was the new project to replace
> h2xs?
exactly. I started down this road then realized it was just easier to
create a tarball than have any dynamic script generation stuff - h2xs did
most of the work in one step for me.
--Geoff
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Re: request for help with reproducing problem
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Geoffrey Young wrote:
>
>
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> Geoffrey Young wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> "Secretly, I'm hoping that Apache-Test becomes so popular that
>>>> end-users start wrapping their bug reports up in little,
>>>> self-contained, Apache-Test-based tarballs so anyone can reproduce
>>>> the problem."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> to that end, I've created a skeleton Apache-Test tarball (attached),
>>> complete with (very) basic instructions and pointers to additional
>>> documentation. just unzip and run, then tweak as necessary. lather,
>>> rinse, repeat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very nice! Though may I suggest to call it something different than
>> bug? ;)
>
>
> as we all know, I'm terrible with names :)
;)
skeleton sounds like a good one. and instead of calling the test file bug.t,
call it feature.t or basic.t, or first.t or whatever.
>>> I was thinking that it could go in the utils/ directory in the mp2
>>> distribution?
>>
>>
>>
>> If it has to be bundled it should be bundled with Apache::Test,
>> however since most people will get Apache::Test installed as rpm, it's
>> probably the best to simply put it on CPAN.
>
>
> you mean as a separate distribution, say Apache::Test::Skeleton?
>
> I'm not so sure that makes sense. if the purpose of the skeleton is to
> give users a place to start, then I'm not sure that having a
> non-functional module on CPAN is a good idea. that's why I suggested
> just checking in the tarball in the mp2 sources, specifically for the
> purpose of reporting bugs.
>
> but I suppose we could put it in the perl-framework instead. however,
> there are plenty of docs, so I dunno...
True, but checking in a tar ball is a bad idea. Instead we should check in a
skeleton tree normally, however not include it in the MANIFEST, but instead
package it on 'make dist' in a separate tar.gz.... but we still have a problem
of rpm which will miss it.
Here is what I think. it should be checked in as a file tree, on 'make' it
should take this file tree and convert it into a script/module which will be
able to reproduce this file tree when that is installed. For example:
Apache::Test::Skeleton
when a user says:
perl -MApache::Test::Skeleton -e create My::Project
it will create the tree using the My-Project name as the top dir and all the
files in it using My-Project
Hmm, basically we reinvent h2xs or what was the new project to replace h2xs?
The difference is that instead of having everything in one file in first place
we can maintain separate files which can then be converted into that file that
can regenerate the tree back.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: request for help with reproducing problem
Posted by Geoffrey Young <ge...@modperlcookbook.org>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> Geoffrey Young wrote:
>
>>
>>> "Secretly, I'm hoping that Apache-Test becomes so popular that
>>> end-users start wrapping their bug reports up in little,
>>> self-contained, Apache-Test-based tarballs so anyone can reproduce
>>> the problem."
>>
>>
>>
>> to that end, I've created a skeleton Apache-Test tarball (attached),
>> complete with (very) basic instructions and pointers to additional
>> documentation. just unzip and run, then tweak as necessary. lather,
>> rinse, repeat.
>
>
> Very nice! Though may I suggest to call it something different than bug? ;)
as we all know, I'm terrible with names :)
>
>> I was thinking that it could go in the utils/ directory in the mp2
>> distribution?
>
>
> If it has to be bundled it should be bundled with Apache::Test, however
> since most people will get Apache::Test installed as rpm, it's probably
> the best to simply put it on CPAN.
you mean as a separate distribution, say Apache::Test::Skeleton?
I'm not so sure that makes sense. if the purpose of the skeleton is to give
users a place to start, then I'm not sure that having a non-functional
module on CPAN is a good idea. that's why I suggested just checking in the
tarball in the mp2 sources, specifically for the purpose of reporting bugs.
but I suppose we could put it in the perl-framework instead. however, there
are plenty of docs, so I dunno...
>
>> I know we've discussed this before, buit I also think it's time to add
>> a footer to the bottom of modperl@ with a link to bug reporting
>> guidelines.
>
>
> Good thinking Geoff! Sure, we can ask Ask to do that. However first we
> should probably make these links more intuitive, like:
>
> http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
>
> which will include a simple index.html pointing to the relevant mp1 and
> mp2 bug reporting instruction docs. I did add them to the ShortCuts
> menu, but personally I'd prefer to be able to quickly type them into the
> compose window, rather than going to perl.apache.org and copy-n-paste
> the long link.
>
> From that page we could also link to perlbug and apache bug documents.
>
> Now we could have a tail:
>
> To report mod_perl bugs go to http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
+1
--Geoff
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Re: request for help with reproducing problem
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Geoffrey Young wrote:
>
>> "Secretly, I'm hoping that Apache-Test becomes so popular that
>> end-users start wrapping their bug reports up in little,
>> self-contained, Apache-Test-based tarballs so anyone can reproduce the
>> problem."
>
>
> to that end, I've created a skeleton Apache-Test tarball (attached),
> complete with (very) basic instructions and pointers to additional
> documentation. just unzip and run, then tweak as necessary. lather,
> rinse, repeat.
Very nice! Though may I suggest to call it something different than bug? ;)
> I was thinking that it could go in the utils/ directory in the mp2
> distribution?
If it has to be bundled it should be bundled with Apache::Test, however since
most people will get Apache::Test installed as rpm, it's probably the best to
simply put it on CPAN.
> I know we've discussed this before, buit I also think it's time to add a
> footer to the bottom of modperl@ with a link to bug reporting guidelines.
Good thinking Geoff! Sure, we can ask Ask to do that. However first we should
probably make these links more intuitive, like:
http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
which will include a simple index.html pointing to the relevant mp1 and mp2
bug reporting instruction docs. I did add them to the ShortCuts menu, but
personally I'd prefer to be able to quickly type them into the compose window,
rather than going to perl.apache.org and copy-n-paste the long link.
From that page we could also link to perlbug and apache bug documents.
Now we could have a tail:
To report mod_perl bugs go to http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: request for help with reproducing problem
Posted by Geoffrey Young <ge...@modperlcookbook.org>.
> "Secretly, I'm hoping that Apache-Test becomes so popular that end-users
> start wrapping their bug reports up in little, self-contained,
> Apache-Test-based tarballs so anyone can reproduce the problem."
to that end, I've created a skeleton Apache-Test tarball (attached),
complete with (very) basic instructions and pointers to additional
documentation. just unzip and run, then tweak as necessary. lather, rinse,
repeat.
I was thinking that it could go in the utils/ directory in the mp2 distribution?
I know we've discussed this before, buit I also think it's time to add a
footer to the bottom of modperl@ with a link to bug reporting guidelines.
/me ducks
--Geoff
Re: request for help with reproducing problem
Posted by Geoffrey Young <ge...@modperlcookbook.org>.
> But you really want to learn how to
> write tests with Apache::Test if you do any serious mod_perl
> development, so there is no excuse not to learn Apache::Test, not
> talking about the fact that there are hundreds of existing tests as
> examples, the tutorial
> http://perl.apache.org/docs/general/testing/testing.html and the slowly
> growing manpages.
not to mention
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/05/22/testing.html
from which I quote:
"Secretly, I'm hoping that Apache-Test becomes so popular that end-users
start wrapping their bug reports up in little, self-contained,
Apache-Test-based tarballs so anyone can reproduce the problem."
--Geoff