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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com> on 2014/08/24 21:47:19 UTC
Tooling friendly incubator report
Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
I'm writing some tooling for editing and report generating in:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom".
Regards,
Alan
Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
I already am aware of Whimsy. :)
My main goal is to put into place building blocks, for automated tooling, around bits such as reporting, mailing list management, etc. These can be used my Whimsy as well as other tooling bits and my site.
As for my site, I like Python and wish to goof around with panopticon. I, frankly, don’t see that harm in that since I am taking great pains to make sure that Whimsy is not excluded from the building blocks that I wish to put into place. Nor am I requiring that Whimsy uses panopticon to take advantage of the work.
Regards,
Alan
On Sep 4, 2014, at 1:19 AM, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> Alan,
>
> I really really encourage you to take a look at Whimsy. It is both a
> front end, and also has libraries for integrating with other things at
> the ASF, such as subversion, etc. It'd be great if we were able to use
> the same tooling for incubator as we are for board reports, etc.
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Upayavira
>
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014, at 10:33 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So how about creating the web form but having it generate text which can be
>>>> inserted into the wiki template? That would allow us to tune the web
>>>> interface without committing to the new format.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> A simple interface to copy/paste the entire podling report or by section
>>> and also for mentors to sign off would be a bit of an improvement over the
>>> current system.
>>>
>>> I don't see much attraction to manually editing YAML or JSON.
>>
>>
>> +1 too
>>
>> You may recall earlier in this thread I mentioned that I'm writing some
>> tooling for editing and report generating in:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
>>
>> This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to
>> be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom”.
>>
>> The whole point in getting this information into YAML is to make the data
>> accessible and freely available to what ever tooling is out there.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
Alan,
I really really encourage you to take a look at Whimsy. It is both a
front end, and also has libraries for integrating with other things at
the ASF, such as subversion, etc. It'd be great if we were able to use
the same tooling for incubator as we are for board reports, etc.
Just a thought,
Upayavira
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014, at 10:33 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> On Sep 3, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> So how about creating the web form but having it generate text which can be
> >> inserted into the wiki template? That would allow us to tune the web
> >> interface without committing to the new format.
> >>
> >
> > +1
> >
> > A simple interface to copy/paste the entire podling report or by section
> > and also for mentors to sign off would be a bit of an improvement over the
> > current system.
> >
> > I don't see much attraction to manually editing YAML or JSON.
>
>
> +1 too
>
> You may recall earlier in this thread I mentioned that I'm writing some
> tooling for editing and report generating in:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
>
> This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to
> be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom”.
>
> The whole point in getting this information into YAML is to make the data
> accessible and freely available to what ever tooling is out there.
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Sep 3, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So how about creating the web form but having it generate text which can be
>> inserted into the wiki template? That would allow us to tune the web
>> interface without committing to the new format.
>>
>
> +1
>
> A simple interface to copy/paste the entire podling report or by section
> and also for mentors to sign off would be a bit of an improvement over the
> current system.
>
> I don't see much attraction to manually editing YAML or JSON.
+1 too
You may recall earlier in this thread I mentioned that I'm writing some tooling for editing and report generating in:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom”.
The whole point in getting this information into YAML is to make the data accessible and freely available to what ever tooling is out there.
Regards,
Alan
Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> So how about creating the web form but having it generate text which can be
> inserted into the wiki template? That would allow us to tune the web
> interface without committing to the new format.
>
+1
A simple interface to copy/paste the entire podling report or by section
and also for mentors to sign off would be a bit of an improvement over the
current system.
I don't see much attraction to manually editing YAML or JSON.
Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Chris Douglas <cd...@apache.org> wrote:
> If the report format has a learning curve, then it is too complex.
+1
This is one of my two concerns about refactoring the report; the other is that
report coordination must remain a team effort. I'm generally in favor of the
changes so long as those concerns are addressed.
There's going to be a web form, right? Because I would not expect N podlings
to manage editing raw YAML without creating a big mess each month for the
Report Manager to clean up.
So how about creating the web form but having it generate text which can be
inserted into the wiki template? That would allow us to tune the web
interface without committing to the new format.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Chris Douglas <cd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> Would it be too much to ask to have YAML report *in addition*
> with the regular wiki?
Let's stick with one report. When the new format is ready, we can ask
podlings to learn it.
> We should be absolutely clear that it is auxiliary, but I think
> it will be a useful way for poddlings to familiarize themselves
> with the structure of the YAML file and ease the transition
> later on.
If the report format has a learning curve, then it is too complex. -C
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Sep 2, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>>>> but its just my opinion, and if incubator is used to work differently, I
>>>>> will not be the one to propose big changes.
>>>>
>>>> This is pretty much how it works now. As I mentioned above, I am merely proposing
>>>> that we use a more structured YAML file instead of a wiki page.
>>>
>>> On that note: I *really* would like to start using YAMLized version
>>> for our Sep report.
>>
>> I think that we'll stick w/ the wiki for September's report. We need to work out things like where to put the YAML file.
>
> Can I make a suggestion, please?
>
> Would it be too much to ask to have YAML report *in addition*
> with the regular wiki?
Keeping the YAML file in sync with the free form wiki would be very difficult.
IMO, having both would be confusing.
> We should be absolutely clear that it is auxiliary, but I think
> it will be a useful way for poddlings to familiarize themselves
> with the structure of the YAML file and ease the transition
> later on.
Working with a YAML file will not be too difficult for podlings; this is a technical community.
>> Where should we put the YAML file. It needs to be in a place where all committers have R/W access. I was thinking:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/data/reports
>
> This looks like as good place as any. Besides, changing that location
> is one svn mv away ;-)
Do podling committers have R/W access?
Regards,
Alan
Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>>> but its just my opinion, and if incubator is used to work differently, I
>>>> will not be the one to propose big changes.
>>>
>>> This is pretty much how it works now. As I mentioned above, I am merely proposing
>>> that we use a more structured YAML file instead of a wiki page.
>>
>> On that note: I *really* would like to start using YAMLized version
>> for our Sep report.
>
> I think that we'll stick w/ the wiki for September's report. We need to work out things like where to put the YAML file.
Can I make a suggestion, please?
Would it be too much to ask to have YAML report *in addition*
with the regular wiki?
We should be absolutely clear that it is auxiliary, but I think
it will be a useful way for poddlings to familiarize themselves
with the structure of the YAML file and ease the transition
later on.
> Where should we put the YAML file. It needs to be in a place where all committers have R/W access. I was thinking:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/data/reports
This looks like as good place as any. Besides, changing that location
is one svn mv away ;-)
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>> but its just my opinion, and if incubator is used to work differently, I
>>> will not be the one to propose big changes.
>>
>> This is pretty much how it works now. As I mentioned above, I am merely proposing
>> that we use a more structured YAML file instead of a wiki page.
>
> On that note: I *really* would like to start using YAMLized version
> for our Sep report.
I think that we'll stick w/ the wiki for September's report. We need to work out things like where to put the YAML file.
Where should we put the YAML file. It needs to be in a place where all committers have R/W access. I was thinking:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/data/reports
Then the data can be automatically available via
http://incubator.apache.org/data/reports
Regards,
Alan
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:16 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>> but its just my opinion, and if incubator is used to work differently, I
>>> will not be the one to propose big changes.
>>
>> This is pretty much how it works now. As I mentioned above, I am merely proposing
>> that we use a more structured YAML file instead of a wiki page.
>
> On that note: I *really* would like to start using YAMLized version
> for our Sep report.
>
> Any objections to that?
SGTM.
Regards,
Alan
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>> but its just my opinion, and if incubator is used to work differently, I
>> will not be the one to propose big changes.
>
> This is pretty much how it works now. As I mentioned above, I am merely proposing
> that we use a more structured YAML file instead of a wiki page.
On that note: I *really* would like to start using YAMLized version
for our Sep report.
Any objections to that?
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Aug 24, 2014, at 1:26 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 24 August 2014 22:00, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2014, at 12:54 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24 August 2014 21:47, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
>>>>
>>> looks good, but 2 questions arise after a brief look:
>>>
>>> you use the expression "shepherds", thats a new expression to me (I
>> thought
>>> we in TAC was the only the used it).
>>
>> What's TAC?
>>
> Travel Assistance, another internal project.
>
>
>>
>> Shepherds are supposed to review the reports.
>>
> Sometimes its good to be new in a project, and able to ask the "of course"
> questions.
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html
>
> Does not have a thing called "shepherd". Seems like a good idea though.
This is a role that's been in place for a while now. I, personally, am loath to document it since I am adamantly against having this role in the first place. (please, don't respond to my opinion on this thread)
>>> I thought you would start with the single incubator project reports,
>>> because the board report can to a large extent be generated from those ?
>>
>> There's shared collected data about the Incubator itself. We could break
>> out the podlings' reports into separate files but that would lead to an
>> explosion of files in the report directory.
>>
>
> Then let me see if I misunderstood the sequence. I thought every incubator
> project submit its own report internally to incubator, and that is then
> combined into the board report.
Currently, a single wiki page gets generated, emails get sent out notifying the podlings that a report is due, and podlings fill in the wiki page. Instead of scraping a wiki page I am proposing a more structured YAML file to replace the wiki page.
> I would really prefer that every incubator project had its own file (or
> directory if you prefer), it has 2 advantages:
> 1) the file only contain information relevant for that project.
> 2) it is much easier for IPMC to determine, which mentors have acted on a
> specific project report.
These are tooling issues. All things being equal, one file per month is better than N files per month.
> the board report should then be assembled via a tool, and IPMC (the chair)
> can add the verbal missing parts.
Yep.
> but its just my opinion, and if incubator is used to work differently, I
> will not be the one to propose big changes.
This is pretty much how it works now. As I mentioned above, I am merely proposing that we use a more structured YAML file instead of a wiki page.
Regards,
Alan
Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 24 August 2014 22:00, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 24, 2014, at 12:54 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 24 August 2014 21:47, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
> >>
> >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
> >>
> > looks good, but 2 questions arise after a brief look:
> >
> > you use the expression "shepherds", thats a new expression to me (I
> thought
> > we in TAC was the only the used it).
>
> What's TAC?
>
Travel Assistance, another internal project.
>
> Shepherds are supposed to review the reports.
>
Sometimes its good to be new in a project, and able to ask the "of course"
questions.
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html
Does not have a thing called "shepherd". Seems like a good idea though.
>
> > I thought you would start with the single incubator project reports,
> > because the board report can to a large extent be generated from those ?
>
> There's shared collected data about the Incubator itself. We could break
> out the podlings' reports into separate files but that would lead to an
> explosion of files in the report directory.
>
Then let me see if I misunderstood the sequence. I thought every incubator
project submit its own report internally to incubator, and that is then
combined into the board report.
I would really prefer that every incubator project had its own file (or
directory if you prefer), it has 2 advantages:
1) the file only contain information relevant for that project.
2) it is much easier for IPMC to determine, which mentors have acted on a
specific project report.
the board report should then be assembled via a tool, and IPMC (the chair)
can add the verbal missing parts.
but its just my opinion, and if incubator is used to work differently, I
will not be the one to propose big changes.
rgds
jan i.
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Aug 24, 2014, at 12:54 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 24 August 2014 21:47, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
>> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>>
>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
>>
> looks good, but 2 questions arise after a brief look:
>
> you use the expression "shepherds", thats a new expression to me (I thought
> we in TAC was the only the used it).
What's TAC?
Shepherds are supposed to review the reports.
> I thought you would start with the single incubator project reports,
> because the board report can to a large extent be generated from those ?
There's shared collected data about the Incubator itself. We could break out the podlings' reports into separate files but that would lead to an explosion of files in the report directory.
Regards,
Alan
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 24 August 2014 21:47, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
>
looks good, but 2 questions arise after a brief look:
you use the expression "shepherds", thats a new expression to me (I thought
we in TAC was the only the used it).
I thought you would start with the single incubator project reports,
because the board report can to a large extent be generated from those ?
rgds
jan i.
>
> I'm writing some tooling for editing and report generating in:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
>
> This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to
> be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom".
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>
> I suggest that those who wish to refactor how the Incubator report is
> done first take a turn as Report Manager -- familiarizing themselves
> with the existing toolset, and collaborating with the existing
> volunteers.
Sounds good. I volunteer to be September's Report Manager.
Regards,
Alan
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> It turns out that there were tasks from last month which were never completed:
>
> * Remove expired "monthly" reporting tags in podlings.xml. (Since this wasn't
> done, a few podlings got "reminders" today who should not have.)
> * Prepare the September wiki report template.
>
> I can take care of those a few hours from now unless somebody beats me to it.
Done.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>>
>> I suggest that those who wish to refactor how the Incubator report is
>> done first take a turn as Report Manager -- familiarizing themselves
>> with the existing toolset, and collaborating with the existing
>> volunteers.
>
> How do I get started?
Run the following command from an Incubator svn checkout:
python3 report_runbook.py --apache-id=adc --month=9
That will provide you with documented steps, including generated
commands to copy/paste.
The first thing on this month's task list is to send out the "September 2014
Incubator Report Timeline" email. That's scheduled to happen today.
It turns out that there were tasks from last month which were never completed:
* Remove expired "monthly" reporting tags in podlings.xml. (Since this wasn't
done, a few podlings got "reminders" today who should not have.)
* Prepare the September wiki report template.
I can take care of those a few hours from now unless somebody beats me to it.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>
> I suggest that those who wish to refactor how the Incubator report is
> done first take a turn as Report Manager -- familiarizing themselves
> with the existing toolset, and collaborating with the existing
> volunteers.
How do I get started?
Regards,
Alan
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
I suggest that those who wish to refactor how the Incubator report is
done first take a turn as Report Manager -- familiarizing themselves
with the existing toolset, and collaborating with the existing
volunteers.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
There can be. That’s why I’m espousing a tool free solution.
Regards,
Alan
On Aug 24, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> There seems to be some overlap with what whimsy does (though also additional incubator specifics). I wonder if there's an opportunity for reuse there?
>
> - Brett
>
> On 25 Aug 2014, at 5:47 am, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
>> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>>
>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
>>
>> I'm writing some tooling for editing and report generating in:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
>>
>> This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom".
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>
>
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
There seems to be some overlap with what whimsy does (though also additional incubator specifics). I wonder if there's an opportunity for reuse there?
- Brett
On 25 Aug 2014, at 5:47 am, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
>
> I'm writing some tooling for editing and report generating in:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
>
> This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom".
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
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Re: Tooling friendly incubator report
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
Is this meant to structure the report wiki page?
If so -- I love this!
Thanks,
Roman.
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> Here's a first sketch of a YAML based incubator report
>
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportFormat
>
> I'm writing some tooling for editing and report generating in:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/panopticon
>
> This is by no means the only way we can modify this file. The idea is to be tool agnostic and "let a hundred flowers bloom".
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
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