Re: Mailing list user migration: Staging and volunteers

[Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>]

On 25/10/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
> Process for getting a new mailing list created is here:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list
> Probably makes sense to start with the largest NL communities first?

I had a look at this and at the mentioned EZMLM "Moderator's and 
Administrator's Manual" to have an idea, and it seems that the moderator 
role and its processes are quite different from what we are used to at 
openoffice.org.

While I do have a general understanding now, I still miss some 
information on how the lists are actually configured at Apache:

- Must all moderation happen by e-mail through the -accept address and 
similar? Isn't a web interface available?

- The distinction between a "Moderator" and an "Administrator" is new to 
me, and I realized that at it.openoffice.org I act much more as an 
Administrator than a Moderator. My most frequent task is a user asking 
me to change his e-mail address, which I have to do in two steps 
(automatically subscribe the new address, then remove the old one; he 
could do it himself of course, but often he experienced difficulties 
while trying). Can this be done on the Apache lists too?

- Can a lists be set up so that it automatically rejects posts from 
non-members, sending a (possibly configurable) standard reply?

- Can subject tags and e-mail footers be customized?

Thanks,
   Andrea.

Re: Mailing list user migration: Staging and volunteers

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Andrea Pescetti
<pe...@openoffice.org> wrote:
> On 25/10/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> Process for getting a new mailing list created is here:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list
>> Probably makes sense to start with the largest NL communities first?
>
> I had a look at this and at the mentioned EZMLM "Moderator's and
> Administrator's Manual" to have an idea, and it seems that the moderator
> role and its processes are quite different from what we are used to at
> openoffice.org.
>

Yes.  It is the difference between ezmlm and Sympa.

> While I do have a general understanding now, I still miss some information
> on how the lists are actually configured at Apache:
>
> - Must all moderation happen by e-mail through the -accept address and
> similar? Isn't a web interface available?
>

I am not aware of any web interface.  List moderators are emailed
posts to moderate and they accept or reject the posts via a mail
interface.  The moderation posts have mailto: links within them, so it
is usually enough to just click the 'accept' or 'reject' links.

> - The distinction between a "Moderator" and an "Administrator" is new to me,
> and I realized that at it.openoffice.org I act much more as an Administrator
> than a Moderator. My most frequent task is a user asking me to change his
> e-mail address, which I have to do in two steps (automatically subscribe the
> new address, then remove the old one; he could do it himself of course, but
> often he experienced difficulties while trying). Can this be done on the
> Apache lists too?
>

A list moderator and subscribe and unsubscribe users.

> - Can a lists be set up so that it automatically rejects posts from
> non-members, sending a (possibly configurable) standard reply?
>

i think by policy we do not want to do this.  We should welcome
responses to posts without requiring the user to subscribe to the
list.  This happens all the time, even here on ooo-dev.

One thing to note is that the incoming list posts at Apache are run
through SpamAssassin.  This happens for messages from list subscribers
as well as non-subscribers.  So the ezlmlm lists at Apache see far
less spam that the legacy Sympa lists at OOo.   The result is that
almost all of the posts that are held for moderation on ooo-dev,
ooo-users, ooo-marketing, etc., are either list subscribers posting
from a different email address than their subscribed address, or
relevant posts from non-subscribers.   It is a good thing that we
don't automatically reject these posts.

> - Can subject tags and e-mail footers be customized?
>

Yes.  You see this, for example, in the ooo-users list which has
unsubscribe info in the footer.

-Rob

> Thanks,
>  Andrea.
>

Re: Mailing list user migration: Staging and volunteers

[Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>]

On 2011-11-13 7:20 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 25/10/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
>> Process for getting a new mailing list created is here:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list
>> Probably makes sense to start with the largest NL communities first?
>
> I had a look at this and at the mentioned EZMLM "Moderator's and
> Administrator's Manual" to have an idea, and it seems that the moderator
> role and its processes are quite different from what we are used to at
> openoffice.org.
>
> While I do have a general understanding now, I still miss some
> information on how the lists are actually configured at Apache:

Yeah, there are some other usual FAQs that haven't been written up on 
that page yet.

> - Must all moderation happen by e-mail through the -accept address and
> similar? Isn't a web interface available?

- Moderation is done over email.  Each email you get has an -accept, 
-reject, and -allow reply address - if you send to the -allow, then that 
user's email address is whitelisted, and that email address can send 
mail in the future without going through moderation.

> - The distinction between a "Moderator" and an "Administrator" is new to
> me, and I realized that at it.openoffice.org I act much more as an
> Administrator than a Moderator. My most frequent task is a user asking
> me to change his e-mail address, which I have to do in two steps
> (automatically subscribe the new address, then remove the old one; he
> could do it himself of course, but often he experienced difficulties
> while trying). Can this be done on the Apache lists too?

Yes, ezmlm allows moderators to remove and add other email addresses to 
a list.  It still sends a confirmation email, but it sends it to the 
moderator (i.e. you can do this without the user having to respond to 
anything.

>
> - Can a lists be set up so that it automatically rejects posts from
> non-members, sending a (possibly configurable) standard reply?

I'm pretty sure we have some subscriber-only lists, but you'd need to 
check with ASF Infra.  Normally you'd mail apmail@apache.org with 
specific questions about the details of mailing list setups.

>
> - Can subject tags and e-mail footers be customized?

Yes, as Rob noted, moderators can send emails to custom addresses to 
check and set footers/headers etc., as well as get the list of subscribers.

Oh, and folks interested in mailing list statistics might like this:

   http://pulse.apache.org/

- Shane