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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Robert Simmons <de...@arcor.de> on 2003/02/14 13:26:05 UTC
Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the FS; can not use classloader
In my opinion this is the largest fault with cocoon at present. It is rather
strange since the Tomcat servlet engine does not suffer from this limitation.
Since they have already got this working, why cant we borrow their code to
accomplish it?
We will never get enterprise programmers to transfer over from using JSP to
using XSP without such a facility. Having to put all the jars in a classpath is
just NOT a viable solution. Not even a viable workaround.
In fact, I think the goal of cocoon should now be to reel in those enterprise
programmers and bring them into the fold. The days of doing things with direct
SQL and database calls are fast waning into the abyss of impossible large scale
project management. There must be other options. XSP as a competitor to JSP and
ASP technologies is simply not viable without integration with EJBs. Integration
with EJBs means getting our compiler to work with a class loader instead of a
classpath.
I think the milestone for this and related bugs should be firmly 2.1. Once
Cocoon has this, I'm convinced they could hit the big time.
-- Robert
"Michael Homeijer" <M....@devote.nl> wrote in message
news:9916289167D2D411BD0700508BB4A527E6725B@dvntex01.devote.nl...
> Anyone care to comment on the threads I mentioned?
>
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103769226701593&w=2
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103990910724056&w=2
>
> When using xsp pages or actions in an ear (combined with using value objects
> returned from ejb's) this is a rather big issue.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bugzilla@apache.org
> To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
> Sent: 13-2-2003 9:08
> Subject: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the FS;
> can not use classloader
>
> DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG
> RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
> <http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580>.
> ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND
> INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580
>
> Java compiler requires JARs in the FS; can not use classloader
>
>
>
>
>
> ------- Additional Comments From m.homeijer@devote.nl 2003-02-13 08:08
> -------
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103769226701593&w=2
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103990910724056&w=2
>
> Anyone care to comment on the threads above? Both mention use of either
> the
> eclipse compiler or the pizza compiler. The first link mentions a
> complete
> patch for pizza compiler that can directly work in Cocoon.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the
FS; can not use classloader
Posted by Christopher Oliver <re...@verizon.net>.
I believe Tomcat makes this work via the following hack:
Requiring that class loaders are URLClassLoaders (containing file
resources) in a three-level arrangement
Common
|
Shared
|
WebApp
Then before executing javac it walks up the classloader chain and calls
getURLS() to get the list of jar files and directories for each class
loader and places these in a temporary file system where javac can find
them.
Although it probably would be easy to do something similar I don't think
anyone would agree that that is a good solution.
Regards,
Chris
Robert Simmons wrote:
>In my opinion this is the largest fault with cocoon at present. It is rather
>strange since the Tomcat servlet engine does not suffer from this limitation.
>Since they have already got this working, why cant we borrow their code to
>accomplish it?
>
>We will never get enterprise programmers to transfer over from using JSP to
>using XSP without such a facility. Having to put all the jars in a classpath is
>just NOT a viable solution. Not even a viable workaround.
>
>In fact, I think the goal of cocoon should now be to reel in those enterprise
>programmers and bring them into the fold. The days of doing things with direct
>SQL and database calls are fast waning into the abyss of impossible large scale
>project management. There must be other options. XSP as a competitor to JSP and
>ASP technologies is simply not viable without integration with EJBs. Integration
>with EJBs means getting our compiler to work with a class loader instead of a
>classpath.
>
>I think the milestone for this and related bugs should be firmly 2.1. Once
>Cocoon has this, I'm convinced they could hit the big time.
>
>-- Robert
>
>"Michael Homeijer" <M....@devote.nl> wrote in message
>news:9916289167D2D411BD0700508BB4A527E6725B@dvntex01.devote.nl...
>
>
>>Anyone care to comment on the threads I mentioned?
>>
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103769226701593&w=2
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103990910724056&w=2
>>
>>When using xsp pages or actions in an ear (combined with using value objects
>>returned from ejb's) this is a rather big issue.
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: bugzilla@apache.org
>>To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
>>Sent: 13-2-2003 9:08
>>Subject: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the FS;
>>can not use classloader
>>
>>DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG
>>RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
>><http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580>.
>>ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND
>>INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.
>>
>>http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580
>>
>>Java compiler requires JARs in the FS; can not use classloader
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------- Additional Comments From m.homeijer@devote.nl 2003-02-13 08:08
>>-------
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103769226701593&w=2
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103990910724056&w=2
>>
>>Anyone care to comment on the threads above? Both mention use of either
>>the
>>eclipse compiler or the pizza compiler. The first link mentions a
>>complete
>>patch for pizza compiler that can directly work in Cocoon.
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
>>For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
>For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the
FS; can not use classloader
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Robert Simmons wrote:
>Well since tomcat is a Jakarta project, I don't see where the licensing comes
>in.
>
Robert,
My point was not about licensing.
>Leaving that out for the moment, the fact is that we know its not
>something that cant be done. We also know that cocoon can never start to
>displace all the JSP out there until it has been done. To me that would
>indicate a high priority task.
>
>
To me personally any code which ties Cocoon up with particular platform
and only this platform is not acceptable. Solution must be portable, and
it's possible to do it using proper compiler.
Vadim
>-- Robert
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Vadim Gritsenko" <va...@verizon.net>
>Newsgroups: gmane.text.xml.cocoon.devel
>Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 2:58 PM
>Subject: Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the
>FS; can not use classloader
>
>
>
>
>>Robert Simmons wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>In my opinion this is the largest fault with cocoon at present. It is
>>>
>>>
>rather
>
>
>>>strange since the Tomcat servlet engine does not suffer from this
>>>
>>>
>limitation.
>
>
>>>Since they have already got this working, why cant we borrow their code to
>>>accomplish it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Robert,
>>
>>You can answer this one easily by yourself: Suppose we've borrowed the
>>Tomcat's code... Then we have to "borrow" WebLogic's code (read EULA
>>first)... WebSphere's code... Resin's code... Shall we continue?
>>
<snip/>
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Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the FS; can not use classloader
Posted by Robert Simmons <de...@arcor.de>.
Well since tomcat is a Jakarta project, I don't see where the licensing comes
in. Leaving that out for the moment, the fact is that we know its not
something that cant be done. We also know that cocoon can never start to
displace all the JSP out there until it has been done. To me that would
indicate a high priority task.
-- Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vadim Gritsenko" <va...@verizon.net>
Newsgroups: gmane.text.xml.cocoon.devel
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the
FS; can not use classloader
> Robert Simmons wrote:
>
> >In my opinion this is the largest fault with cocoon at present. It is
rather
> >strange since the Tomcat servlet engine does not suffer from this
limitation.
> >Since they have already got this working, why cant we borrow their code to
> >accomplish it?
> >
> >
>
> Robert,
>
> You can answer this one easily by yourself: Suppose we've borrowed the
> Tomcat's code... Then we have to "borrow" WebLogic's code (read EULA
> first)... WebSphere's code... Resin's code... Shall we continue?
>
>
> >We will never get enterprise programmers to transfer over from using JSP
to
> >using XSP without such a facility. Having to put all the jars in a
classpath is
> >just NOT a viable solution. Not even a viable workaround.
> >
> >
>
> It's perfectly common (and described in some J2EE docs, and implemented
> in J2EE reference implementation) for EJB client application to package
> it with EJB client jar. So, me thinks, it's a (endorsed by Sun) way...
> Not the best one, but sure it's a way.
>
>
> >In fact, I think the goal of cocoon should now be to reel in those
enterprise
> >programmers and bring them into the fold. The days of doing things with
direct
> >SQL and database calls are fast waning into the abyss of impossible large
scale
> >project management. There must be other options. XSP as a competitor to
JSP and
> >ASP technologies is simply not viable without integration with EJBs.
> >
>
> BTW... If you are trying to put all the EJB code into XSP I think you
> missed the concept of Actions which are the place to do such things.
> Like in so-called "JSP model 2" it's not advisable to put all your logic
> into JSPs, you can do same in Cocoon - put the logic into the Actions
> (pure java code, that's where the code belongs), and leave XSPs to (as
> much as possible) pure content.
>
>
> >Integration
> >with EJBs means getting our compiler to work with a class loader instead
of a
> >classpath.
> >
>
> Exactly, classloading javac is the missing piece.
>
>
> >I think the milestone for this and related bugs should be firmly 2.1. Once
> >Cocoon has this, I'm convinced they could hit the big time.
> >
>
> No, this is the minor patch, which does not affect Cocoon internals,
> just adds (modifies - in case of Pizza) one component - it will happily
> go to both branches.
>
> Vadim
>
>
>
> >-- Robert
> >
> >"Michael Homeijer" <M....@devote.nl> wrote in message
> >news:9916289167D2D411BD0700508BB4A527E6725B@dvntex01.devote.nl...
> >
> >
> >>Anyone care to comment on the threads I mentioned?
> >>
> >>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103769226701593&w=2
> >>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103990910724056&w=2
> >>
> >>When using xsp pages or actions in an ear (combined with using value
objects
> >>returned from ejb's) this is a rather big issue.
> >>
> >>Michael
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: bugzilla@apache.org
> >>To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
> >>Sent: 13-2-2003 9:08
> >>Subject: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the
FS;
> >>can not use classloader
> >>
> >>DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG
> >>RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
> >><http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580>.
> >>ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND
> >>INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.
> >>
> >>http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580
> >>
> >>Java compiler requires JARs in the FS; can not use classloader
> >>
> >>
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Re: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the
FS; can not use classloader
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Robert Simmons wrote:
>In my opinion this is the largest fault with cocoon at present. It is rather
>strange since the Tomcat servlet engine does not suffer from this limitation.
>Since they have already got this working, why cant we borrow their code to
>accomplish it?
>
>
Robert,
You can answer this one easily by yourself: Suppose we've borrowed the
Tomcat's code... Then we have to "borrow" WebLogic's code (read EULA
first)... WebSphere's code... Resin's code... Shall we continue?
>We will never get enterprise programmers to transfer over from using JSP to
>using XSP without such a facility. Having to put all the jars in a classpath is
>just NOT a viable solution. Not even a viable workaround.
>
>
It's perfectly common (and described in some J2EE docs, and implemented
in J2EE reference implementation) for EJB client application to package
it with EJB client jar. So, me thinks, it's a (endorsed by Sun) way...
Not the best one, but sure it's a way.
>In fact, I think the goal of cocoon should now be to reel in those enterprise
>programmers and bring them into the fold. The days of doing things with direct
>SQL and database calls are fast waning into the abyss of impossible large scale
>project management. There must be other options. XSP as a competitor to JSP and
>ASP technologies is simply not viable without integration with EJBs.
>
BTW... If you are trying to put all the EJB code into XSP I think you
missed the concept of Actions which are the place to do such things.
Like in so-called "JSP model 2" it's not advisable to put all your logic
into JSPs, you can do same in Cocoon - put the logic into the Actions
(pure java code, that's where the code belongs), and leave XSPs to (as
much as possible) pure content.
>Integration
>with EJBs means getting our compiler to work with a class loader instead of a
>classpath.
>
Exactly, classloading javac is the missing piece.
>I think the milestone for this and related bugs should be firmly 2.1. Once
>Cocoon has this, I'm convinced they could hit the big time.
>
No, this is the minor patch, which does not affect Cocoon internals,
just adds (modifies - in case of Pizza) one component - it will happily
go to both branches.
Vadim
>-- Robert
>
>"Michael Homeijer" <M....@devote.nl> wrote in message
>news:9916289167D2D411BD0700508BB4A527E6725B@dvntex01.devote.nl...
>
>
>>Anyone care to comment on the threads I mentioned?
>>
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103769226701593&w=2
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103990910724056&w=2
>>
>>When using xsp pages or actions in an ear (combined with using value objects
>>returned from ejb's) this is a rather big issue.
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: bugzilla@apache.org
>>To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
>>Sent: 13-2-2003 9:08
>>Subject: DO NOT REPLY [Bug 16580] - Java compiler requires JARs in the FS;
>>can not use classloader
>>
>>DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG
>>RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
>><http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580>.
>>ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND
>>INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.
>>
>>http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580
>>
>>Java compiler requires JARs in the FS; can not use classloader
>>
>>
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