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Posted to dev@jackrabbit.apache.org by Franco Krattiger <fr...@redshift.ch> on 2005/07/12 16:36:46 UTC
considering use of jackrabbit
hi all
we're considering using Jackrabbit for a medium scale web-application
that we are currently in the planning stage for.
having perused the open issues on Jira i'm somewhat unsure whether
it's a wise decision to make use of the product prior to the first
official release.
the majority of the severe issues seem to pertain to the versioning
code. as versioning support is not a requirement for our application,
i could live with that limitation.
JCR-160 (query index not in sync with workspace) worries me, however.
searching is, not surprisingly, a key requirement for our app... if
the indexes run awry that's a bad thing :(
so basically, i have the following questions:
- generally speaking, can Jackrabbit in its current state be considered
for production use?
considering the open issues, this obviously would require workarounds
or an outright avoidance of certain functionality. i guess i'd like
to know if you guys are reasonably confident that the codebase doesn't
harbor any more severe bugs beyond those already known and reported.
- for those familiar with JCR-160: just how quickly do the indexes drift
out of synch? in my app, jackrabbit will probably see less than 100
mutations/day... if the indexing creeps up rather slowly, it might be
feasible to work around it by reindexing on a nightly basis until a
fix comes along...
i'd really love to use the product for our project... i hope someone out
there can shed some light on my questions...
thanks and cheers,
franco krattiger
previon ag
zofingen, switzerland
Re: Calendar
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
David Nuescheler wrote:
> do you guys think we should start a list of
> "jackrabbit powered" applications on the jackrabbit website?
> maybe containing a screenshot and a short description of
> the application, possibly a URL?
+1
over at cocoon, there are instructions for potential 'powered by' sites
/ applications.
http://cocoon.apache.org/link/livesites-2.1.html#How+to+get+listed
i think it's useful to have short 'testimonials' with a link.
Re: Calendar
Posted by David Nuescheler <da...@gmail.com>.
hi robert,
this stuff looks very nice... i am impressed.
do you guys think we should start a list of
"jackrabbit powered" applications on the jackrabbit website?
maybe containing a screenshot and a short description of
the application, possibly a URL?
regards,
david
On 7/14/05, Robert Ritchy <ro...@jarbo.com> wrote:
> BTW, I noticed people where using the traditional wiki syntax when
> editing pages. I should have never used the word 'wiki' because it's not
> really a true wiki (didn't know what else to call it). The only two page
> editors are wysiwyg and straight HTML.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> -r
>
> Robert Ritchy wrote:
>
> > My apologies to the list if this is swaying off topic - I'll keep the
> > thread short.
> >
> > The calendar is not open sourced, but I'm certainly not against doing
> > something like that.
> >
> > And, while it is unfinished, there's actually some working features
> > which are not exposed in the app you hit. -Uploading new iCalendars
> > (i.e. calendars downloaded from http://www.icalshare.com/ or created
> > via Mac/KOrganizer)
> > -Managing/viewing/combining multiple calendars
> > -Adding/removing calendar events.
> >
> > -Robert
> >
> > Torgeir Veimo wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 10:40 -0600, Robert Ritchy wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Sure, you can hit http://mail.jarbo.com and login as demo/demo. I
> >>> started working on it about 7 months ago as a side project (to get
> >>> my family out of the dark ages). Like most developers, I wish I had
> >>> more time to work on it.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is this software open source? The calendar part looks interesting,
> >> although a bit unfinished.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
--
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Re: Calendar
Posted by Robert Ritchy <ro...@jarbo.com>.
BTW, I noticed people where using the traditional wiki syntax when
editing pages. I should have never used the word 'wiki' because it's not
really a true wiki (didn't know what else to call it). The only two page
editors are wysiwyg and straight HTML.
Sorry for the confusion.
-r
Robert Ritchy wrote:
> My apologies to the list if this is swaying off topic - I'll keep the
> thread short.
>
> The calendar is not open sourced, but I'm certainly not against doing
> something like that.
>
> And, while it is unfinished, there's actually some working features
> which are not exposed in the app you hit. -Uploading new iCalendars
> (i.e. calendars downloaded from http://www.icalshare.com/ or created
> via Mac/KOrganizer)
> -Managing/viewing/combining multiple calendars
> -Adding/removing calendar events.
>
> -Robert
>
> Torgeir Veimo wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 10:40 -0600, Robert Ritchy wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sure, you can hit http://mail.jarbo.com and login as demo/demo. I
>>> started working on it about 7 months ago as a side project (to get
>>> my family out of the dark ages). Like most developers, I wish I had
>>> more time to work on it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Is this software open source? The calendar part looks interesting,
>> although a bit unfinished.
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Calendar (was: considering use of jackrabbit)
Posted by Robert Ritchy <ro...@jarbo.com>.
My apologies to the list if this is swaying off topic - I'll keep the
thread short.
The calendar is not open sourced, but I'm certainly not against doing
something like that.
And, while it is unfinished, there's actually some working features
which are not exposed in the app you hit.
-Uploading new iCalendars (i.e. calendars downloaded from
http://www.icalshare.com/ or created via Mac/KOrganizer)
-Managing/viewing/combining multiple calendars
-Adding/removing calendar events.
-Robert
Torgeir Veimo wrote:
>On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 10:40 -0600, Robert Ritchy wrote:
>
>
>>Sure, you can hit http://mail.jarbo.com and login as demo/demo. I
>>started working on it about 7 months ago as a side project (to get my
>>family out of the dark ages). Like most developers, I wish I had more
>>time to work on it.
>>
>>
>
>Is this software open source? The calendar part looks interesting,
>although a bit unfinished.
>
>
>
Re: considering use of jackrabbit
Posted by Torgeir Veimo <to...@pobox.com>.
On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 10:40 -0600, Robert Ritchy wrote:
> Sure, you can hit http://mail.jarbo.com and login as demo/demo. I
> started working on it about 7 months ago as a side project (to get my
> family out of the dark ages). Like most developers, I wish I had more
> time to work on it.
Is this software open source? The calendar part looks interesting,
although a bit unfinished.
--
Torgeir Veimo <to...@pobox.com>
Re: considering use of jackrabbit
Posted by Robert Ritchy <ro...@jarbo.com>.
Sure, you can hit http://mail.jarbo.com and login as demo/demo. I
started working on it about 7 months ago as a side project (to get my
family out of the dark ages). Like most developers, I wish I had more
time to work on it.
Feel free to send an email (to demo@jarbo.com or from it), create a
wiki, upload an iCalendar, etc.
-robert
David Nuescheler wrote:
>hi robert,
>
>
>
>>I've build a few personal apps (email, calendar, wiki) for less than 20
>>users, so I certainly don't fit your use case. My users; however,
>>(family/friends/co-workers) are fairly active because it is their
>>primary email/calendar/wiki.
>>
>>
>cool, that sounds great. are those applications publically
>available in the sense that we could see the web frontend?
>i always love to see jcr apps at work ;)
>
>regards,
>david
>
>
>
Re: considering use of jackrabbit
Posted by David Nuescheler <da...@gmail.com>.
hi robert,
> I've build a few personal apps (email, calendar, wiki) for less than 20
> users, so I certainly don't fit your use case. My users; however,
> (family/friends/co-workers) are fairly active because it is their
> primary email/calendar/wiki.
cool, that sounds great. are those applications publically
available in the sense that we could see the web frontend?
i always love to see jcr apps at work ;)
regards,
david
Re: considering use of jackrabbit
Posted by Robert Ritchy <ro...@jarbo.com>.
Franco Krattiger wrote:
> the majority of the severe issues seem to pertain to the versioning
> code. as versioning support is not a requirement for our application,
> i could live with that limitation.
>
> JCR-160 (query index not in sync with workspace) worries me, however.
> searching is, not surprisingly, a key requirement for our app... if
> the indexes run awry that's a bad thing :(
While it is bad, the correction (wiping out the index dir), isn't the
worst scenario. And, I'm sure a fix won't be too far away considering
the severity of the problem (actually looks like progress was made as I
type this).
>
> so basically, i have the following questions:
>
> - generally speaking, can Jackrabbit in its current state be considered
> for production use?
I'd say it's not ready, but still functional enough to build your app
against. As you know, you can always swap it out for a commercially
supported product if jackrabbit doesn't satisfy your use cases (beauty
of JSR170).
> considering the open issues, this obviously would require workarounds
> or an outright avoidance of certain functionality. i guess i'd like
> to know if you guys are reasonably confident that the codebase doesn't
> harbor any more severe bugs beyond those already known and reported.
>
I've build a few personal apps (email, calendar, wiki) for less than 20
users, so I certainly don't fit your use case. My users; however,
(family/friends/co-workers) are fairly active because it is their
primary email/calendar/wiki.
Given that, I have been using various, tested versions for about 6
months now, and, while there have been a few bugs, I've never lost data
or run into critical problems. The basics nodes/property CRUD operations
has always worked for me. I've never seen a lost/corrupted email or
wiped out a web page.
> - for those familiar with JCR-160: just how quickly do the indexes drift
> out of synch? in my app, jackrabbit will probably see less than 100
> mutations/day... if the indexing creeps up rather slowly, it might be
> feasible to work around it by reindexing on a nightly basis until a
> fix comes along...
>
You might want to view JCR-160 for the latest status.
> i'd really love to use the product for our project... i hope someone out
> there can shed some light on my questions...
>
>
Open source projects are about collaboration, not about giving vendors
free support. Which is why it's good that you were trying to do the
former. I didn't detect any "can you guys support our commercial
product" in your email. But, if I'm wrong - then you should probably
avoid this project.
-Robert
> thanks and cheers,
>
>
> franco krattiger
> previon ag
> zofingen, switzerland
>
>
Re: considering use of jackrabbit
Posted by David Nuescheler <da...@gmail.com>.
hi franco,
> i'm asking for an assessment along the lines of "i know this code and
> i'm confident that most of the kinks have been worked out". a question
> which seems reasonable to ask for someone who's not familiar with the
> codebase...
from what i can tell from your usecase (~100 mods / day) i am very
confident that jackrabbit can handle that. we currently using and
testing jackrabbit under more than 1000x that load.
with respect to the lucene index drifting apart:
this is only happens up on abnormal
termination (vmcrash, kill -9, poweroutage) and you
can simply remove the index before startup to cause a
fresh rebuild of the entirely index.
regards,
david
Re: considering use of jackrabbit
Posted by Franco Krattiger <fr...@redshift.ch>.
hi roy
> That's a silly question. Do you require that of your own source code?
perhaps you misunderstood what i'm asking. i'm not asking for you guys
to tell me that there are no more serious bugs to contend with... which,
i agree, would be silly... and no, i don't expect that of my own source.
i'm asking for an assessment along the lines of "i know this code and
i'm confident that most of the kinks have been worked out". a question
which seems reasonable to ask for someone who's not familiar with the
codebase...
anyway, thanks for the response...
cheers,
franco
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Jul 12, 2005, at 7:36 AM, Franco Krattiger wrote:
>
>> we're considering using Jackrabbit for a medium scale web-application
>> that we are currently in the planning stage for.
>
>
> That's nice.
>
>> having perused the open issues on Jira i'm somewhat unsure whether
>> it's a wise decision to make use of the product prior to the first
>> official release.
>
>
> I think you should try using it. If you find problems, report them,
> preferably with the fix. That's what we do at Apache. Eventually,
> the problems (if any) will be very hard to find, but we can only
> get there one volunteer at a time.
>
>> the majority of the severe issues seem to pertain to the versioning
>> code. as versioning support is not a requirement for our application,
>> i could live with that limitation.
>
>
> That's good -- we wouldn't want you to keel over and die on us.
>
>> JCR-160 (query index not in sync with workspace) worries me, however.
>> searching is, not surprisingly, a key requirement for our app... if
>> the indexes run awry that's a bad thing :(
>
>
> Yep, we think so too.
>
>> so basically, i have the following questions:
>>
>> - generally speaking, can Jackrabbit in its current state be considered
>> for production use?
>
>
> We have not released it yet. We won't release it until we think it
> is ready to be released.
>
>> considering the open issues, this obviously would require workarounds
>> or an outright avoidance of certain functionality. i guess i'd like
>> to know if you guys are reasonably confident that the codebase doesn't
>> harbor any more severe bugs beyond those already known and reported.
>
>
> That's a silly question. Do you require that of your own source code?
>
>> - for those familiar with JCR-160: just how quickly do the indexes drift
>> out of synch? in my app, jackrabbit will probably see less than 100
>> mutations/day... if the indexing creeps up rather slowly, it might be
>> feasible to work around it by reindexing on a nightly basis until a
>> fix comes along...
>
>
> I highly recommend testing it in practice, before deployment, with
> your own set of use-cases. Please report any findings back to the
> project and, eventually, we will all collaborate on making it better.
>
> However, if what you want is business assurances or OEM-style
> products, then you should seek out a business that will give
> you such assurances (my employer is one, but this is not intended
> as an advert in any way). Open source projects are about collaboration,
> not about giving vendors free support.
>
> ....Roy
>
>
>
>
Re: considering use of jackrabbit
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Jul 12, 2005, at 7:36 AM, Franco Krattiger wrote:
> we're considering using Jackrabbit for a medium scale web-application
> that we are currently in the planning stage for.
That's nice.
> having perused the open issues on Jira i'm somewhat unsure whether
> it's a wise decision to make use of the product prior to the first
> official release.
I think you should try using it. If you find problems, report them,
preferably with the fix. That's what we do at Apache. Eventually,
the problems (if any) will be very hard to find, but we can only
get there one volunteer at a time.
> the majority of the severe issues seem to pertain to the versioning
> code. as versioning support is not a requirement for our application,
> i could live with that limitation.
That's good -- we wouldn't want you to keel over and die on us.
> JCR-160 (query index not in sync with workspace) worries me, however.
> searching is, not surprisingly, a key requirement for our app... if
> the indexes run awry that's a bad thing :(
Yep, we think so too.
> so basically, i have the following questions:
>
> - generally speaking, can Jackrabbit in its current state be considered
> for production use?
We have not released it yet. We won't release it until we think it
is ready to be released.
> considering the open issues, this obviously would require workarounds
> or an outright avoidance of certain functionality. i guess i'd like
> to know if you guys are reasonably confident that the codebase
> doesn't
> harbor any more severe bugs beyond those already known and reported.
That's a silly question. Do you require that of your own source code?
> - for those familiar with JCR-160: just how quickly do the indexes
> drift
> out of synch? in my app, jackrabbit will probably see less than 100
> mutations/day... if the indexing creeps up rather slowly, it might be
> feasible to work around it by reindexing on a nightly basis until a
> fix comes along...
I highly recommend testing it in practice, before deployment, with
your own set of use-cases. Please report any findings back to the
project and, eventually, we will all collaborate on making it better.
However, if what you want is business assurances or OEM-style
products, then you should seek out a business that will give
you such assurances (my employer is one, but this is not intended
as an advert in any way). Open source projects are about collaboration,
not about giving vendors free support.
....Roy