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Posted to dev@heron.apache.org by Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io> on 2020/06/05 21:22:22 UTC
Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
I just opened a PR that fixes javadoc generation for the website build. Do
we have anything else outstanding before we can start a vote on the next
release candidate?
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:31 AM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah. We have chosen Debian 10 for the binary release and clean up the
> license requirements for the first binary release.
>
> In the source level, we would also like to include a few platforms/versions
> in the main source code to be "supported" and the others will be moved to
> like a "extra" folder and not actively supported/tested.
>
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:22 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I thought that the purpose of this discussion was to find the one or two
> > platforms for Heron to support in order to keep down the complexity of
> > making the first binary release for the community.
> >
> > Other platforms could be on a roadmap for future releases.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > > On May 26, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > My concern about "latest" is that I feel most people hold it for some
> > time
> > > before migrating to the latest version (if it ever happens). If there
> are
> > > numbers, it could make sense to use the most popular version (plus the
> > > other criterias).
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:14 PM Oliver Bristow <
> > oliver@oliverbristow.co.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sorry if I missed the rationale for Ubuntu 18.04 instead of 20.04, but
> > >> would the latest LTS be a better choice? 18.04 was released before
> > Debian
> > >> 10, so that may be an argument for 20.04 re. compatibility if Debian
> 10
> > is
> > >> the standard.
> > >>
> > >> There's already a 20.04 Dockerfile + I It looks like the vagrant setup
> > will
> > >> get an upgrade from 14.04 to 20.04 as a part of the python3 upgrade,
> and
> > >> seems to run fine so far.
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 19:30, Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> +1.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So my understanding is:
> > >>>> binary (in future release): Debian 10.
> > >>>> source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers will
> be
> > >>>> updated in the future after more discussions/votes.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi All,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of
> CentOS/Debian
> > >>>> would
> > >>>>> be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the
> > >>>>> community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So..... I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on
> > >> this.
> > >>>>> I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers
> > >> to
> > >>>> get
> > >>>>> some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down
> > >>>>> incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Debian:
> > >>>>> - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be
> > >> published
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>> Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9.
> > >>>>> CentOS:
> > >>>>> - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native
> > >>>>> Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet.
> > >>>>> Ubuntu:
> > >>>>> - We will still support one version. At this time the version is
> > >>>> 18.04.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as
> updates/deprecation
> > >> of
> > >>>>> support are needed.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please
> check
> > >>> that
> > >>>>> the statements I wrote down are what you understood!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> See below for notes on lazy consensus:
> > >>>>> https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> - Josh
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> +1
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis <
> > >>>> nicholas.nezis@gmail.com
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I like those options.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer <
> > >> josh@joshfischer.io
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can
> > >>>> start a
> > >>>>>>> vote
> > >>>>>>>> to make a final decision on which containers for us to support.
> > >>>> Keep
> > >>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>> mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support
> > >>> (There
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>>>> work
> > >>>>>>>> in progress now) we do not need it as of yet.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - Josh
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 <th...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be
> > >>> nice
> > >>>>> if
> > >>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>> included.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer <josh@joshfischer.io
> > >>> 님이
> > >>>> 작성:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the
> > >>> criteria
> > >>>>>> down
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about
> > >>>> overall
> > >>>>>>>> support
> > >>>>>>>>>> and what others would need/want.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> +1
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> - Josh
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong <
> > >>>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> My experience is that, people tends to pick their
> > >> container
> > >>>>> image
> > >>>>>>> OS
> > >>>>>>>>>> based
> > >>>>>>>>>>> on few criterias only:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and
> > >>> 3rd
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much
> > >>>>> library
> > >>>>>>>>>> provided
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and require to compile manually. debian is always good
> > >>>> because
> > >>>>> it
> > >>>>>>> has
> > >>>>>>>>>>> apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as
> > >>> debian
> > >>>>>>> because
> > >>>>>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>>>>>> also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because
> > >>> it
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>>>> fat,
> > >>>>>>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>>>>>> provides very large range of libraries to use.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has
> > >>> issue
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>>>> DNS
> > >>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine
> > >> has
> > >>>>> some
> > >>>>>> as
> > >>>>>>>>> well,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be
> > >> done
> > >>>>>>> manually.
> > >>>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> this case, centos and debian should win.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu,
> > >> centos,
> > >>>> are
> > >>>>> 3
> > >>>>>>>>>> different
> > >>>>>>>>>>> streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick
> > >>>> their
> > >>>>>>> base
> > >>>>>>>>>> image
> > >>>>>>>>>>> based on what they often use in their life. However, I
> > >> see
> > >>> a
> > >>>>> lot
> > >>>>>>>> debian
> > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in
> > >> size.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 4. library support. Python library is a very good example
> > >>> in
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>>>>> case.
> > >>>>>>>>>> As
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python
> > >>> 3.7+,
> > >>>>>> some
> > >>>>>>>>>>> discontinued based OS version does not provide the
> > >> support
> > >>>>>> anymore.
> > >>>>>>>> We
> > >>>>>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>>>>> tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5,
> > >>>> ubuntu
> > >>>>>>> 14.04
> > >>>>>>>>> does
> > >>>>>>>>>>> not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to
> > >> Python
> > >>>> 3.5
> > >>>>>>> only.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding
> > >>>> all 4
> > >>>>>>>> points
> > >>>>>>>>>>> above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports
> > >> python37),
> > >>>>>>> debian10
> > >>>>>>>>> (not
> > >>>>>>>>>>> debian9), ubuntu 18.04 (supports python3.7+) would be the
> > >>>> best
> > >>>>>>>> solution
> > >>>>>>>>>> at
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the moment. We have to cut off the old images due to our
> > >>>>> library
> > >>>>>>>>> upgrade
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and this is unavoidable. Otherwise, we would have tons of
> > >>>>> issues
> > >>>>>>>>> sending
> > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> about library support in the future and the workload
> > >> could
> > >>>> be a
> > >>>>>> lot
> > >>>>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>>>> for just answering questions.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Windham Wong
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder, Technical Director of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Stormeye.io, Hong Kong Managed Security Operation Center
> > >>>>> Limited
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Email // windham.wong@stormeye.io (mailto:
> > >>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io
> > >>>>>>> )
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Phone // +852_3590_2212_|_+852_9832_0707
> > >> (tel:+85235902212)
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Fax // +852_3590_2202 (tel:+852_3590_2202)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 5月 19 2020, at 6:09 早上, Josh Fischer <
> > >>> josh@joshfischer.io
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, I think using CentOS and either Debian or
> > >> Ubuntu
> > >>>> is a
> > >>>>>>> good
> > >>>>>>>>>> idea.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would pick Debian over Ubuntu for the reason that Nick
> > >>>>> pointed
> > >>>>>>> out
> > >>>>>>>>> in a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> previous email of DNS issues in Kubernetes. I"ve copy and
> > >>>>> pasted
> > >>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>> section
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of Nick's previous email. ### Start I've run into issues
> > >>> with
> > >>>>>>> Ubuntu
> > >>>>>>>>>> images
> > >>>>>>>>>>> having DNS issues in Kubernetes.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 ### End
> > >>> As
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>>>> what
> > >>>>>>>>>> ends
> > >>>>>>>>>>> up being the official Docker container I'm fine with
> > >> either
> > >>>>>> choice
> > >>>>>>>>> Debian
> > >>>>>>>>>>> or CentOS. On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:10 AM Ning Wang
> > >>> wrote: >
> > >>>>>> Yeah.
> > >>>>>>>> For
> > >>>>>>>>>>> binary release, the license is a huge factor. > > On Sun,
> > >>> May
> > >>>>> 17,
> > >>>>>>>> 2020
> > >>>>>>>>> at
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 2:32 PM Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When it
> > >>>> comes
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> choosing
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the official Apache Docker image for Heron we > > have to
> > >>>> think
> > >>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> licensing issues first. Everything that is > installed >
> > >>>
> > >>>> into
> > >>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> container at build time with the exception of the "FROM"
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> statement
> > >>>>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the Dockerfile must be ALv2 compatible. OpenJDK is under
> > >>>
> > >>>>> GPLv2
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> which
> > >>>>>>>>>>> is not compatible with Apache. However we can get around
> > >>> this
> > >>>>> if
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> we
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> bring the OpenJDK into the container via a FROM
> > >> statement.
> > >>>> I've
> > >>>>>>>> copied
> > >>>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> reply from Dave in our dev list in a previous email.
> > >> See
> > >>>>> below.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ######## Start ######## > > Regarding OpenJDK and GPL2 -
> > >>> here
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>>>> what
> > >>>>>>>>>> Roman
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the VP, Legal wrote when > > answering Beam’s questions.
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Roman
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Shaposhnik commented on LEGAL-503: > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- > > > > Hey
> > >>> [~altay]
> > >>>>> if
> > >>>>>>> you
> > >>>>>>>>>> would
> > >>>>>>>>>>> like to continue linking to the Docker release > >
> > >> artifact
> > >>>>> from
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://beam.apache.org > > you will have: > > 1.
> > >>> Transition
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> official ASF dockerhub org: > >
> > >>>>> https://hub.docker.com/u/apache
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> 2.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Start including that binary convenience artifact into
> > >> your
> > >>>> VOTE
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> threads
> > >>>>>>>>>>> on Beam releases > > 3. Make sure that all Cat-X licenses
> > >>> are
> > >>>>>> ONLY
> > >>>>>>>>>> brought
> > >>>>>>>>>>> into your > > container via FROM statements > > ########
> > >>> End
> > >>>>>>>> ######## >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> So at the end of the day, we need to use a container
> > >> that
> > >>>> has
> > >>>>>>> Java
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> already > > installed in it so that when we create our
> > >>>> official
> > >>>>>>> image
> > >>>>>>>>> we
> > >>>>>>>>>>> can inherit > > that java containing image via a FROM
> > >>>>> statement.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Josh > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:12 PM H W
> > >>> wrote: >
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> We
> > >>>>>>>>>>> use Centos 7 as well. > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at
> > >>>> 10:41
> > >>>>>> AM
> > >>>>>>>>>> Nicholas
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Nezis < > > nicholas.nezis@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Some
> > >>>>>>>>>>> thoughts I'd like to add to the discussion: > > > > > >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Debian
> > >>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu are somewhat similar. Would it make sense to pick
> > >>>
> > >>>> one
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> those and pair with Centos? > > > > > > > > I've run
> > >>> into
> > >>>>>>> issues
> > >>>>>>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu images having DNS issues in > > Kubernetes. > > >
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 > > > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Ubuntu
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 14.04 should be removed. It was end of life last year.
> > >> For
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> those
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you using Heron in production, is anyone using
> > >>> Ubuntu
> > >>>>> 16?
> > >>>>>>> My
> > >>>>>>>>>> vote >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> would > > > be > > > > to remove it also. For what it's
> > >>>> worth,
> > >>>>> my
> > >>>>>>> use
> > >>>>>>>>>> case
> > >>>>>>>>>>> is in K8s and we > > use > > > > the Centos7 image on a
> > >>>> Centos
> > >>>>> 7
> > >>>>>>> OS.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We should do a test of the official image and
> > >>> helm
> > >>>>>> chart
> > >>>>>>>> in >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kubernetes > > > > (maybe with Kind
> > >>>> https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/
> > >>>>> )
> > >>>>>> as
> > >>>>>>>>> part
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of our release > > > > process. This might be nice to add
> > >>> as
> > >>>> an
> > >>>>>>>>>> integration
> > >>>>>>>>>>> test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Sun, May 17, 2020, 12:37 PM Ning Wang > wrote: > > > > >
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> That
> > >>>>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> good point. We need to adjust the OS version accordingly
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> too. >
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:28 AM Windham Wong <
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > >
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debian 10 has no python 2.7 support. Ubuntu
> > >> 16.04
> > >>>> has
> > >>>>>> no
> > >>>>>>>>>> python >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 3.7+ > > > > dev > > > > > > library support. hope this
> > >>>> helps
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > > Sent from myMail for Android Sunday, 17
> > >> May
> > >>>>> 2020,
> > >>>>>>>>> 11:34AM
> > >>>>>>>>>>> +08:00 > > from > > > > > Ning > > > > > > Wang
> > >>>>>>> wangninggm@gmail.com
> > >>>>>>>>> : >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We
> > >>> have
> > >>>>>>> talked
> > >>>>>>>>>> about
> > >>>>>>>>>>> it a few times in different places. Let's > > make > > >
> > >> a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> decision here. We don't have enough resources to support
> > >>>> many
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> docker >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSes > > > > > > >(technically we only support
> > >>>> Debian,
> > >>>>>>>> Ubuntu,
> > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> CentOS but each > > of > > > > them > > > > > > >has
> > >>> multiple
> > >>>>>>>>> versions).
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Things we have agreed on (my
> > >>>>>>> understanding)
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - for binary release, we are going to choose one
> > >> OS
> > >>>> one
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> version. I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember that Debian 9 was the decision. An
> > >>> open
> > >>>>>>>> question
> > >>>>>>>>>> is:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> do > > we > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > >switch
> > >>> to
> > >>>>>> Debian
> > >>>>>>>> 10
> > >>>>>>>>>> now?
> > >>>>>>>>>>> We haven't had a binary release yet, so > > > there > > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> still time. As the main target, I think 1. the image
> > >>>> should
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> compile
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully. and 2 the image should be
> > >>> tested:
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>> tools
> > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> an > > > > example > > > > > > >topology. > > > > > > >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>> for
> > >>>>>>>>>>> source release, we haven't talked about it very much. > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Personally
> > >>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel it is a reasonable expectation that, if
> > >>> we
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Docker > > file > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > >
> > >>>> core
> > >>>>>>> folders,
> > >>>>>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>>>>>> should at least compile. Otherwise, it's a > failed > >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> build >
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hence a failed release. We are not going to test run
> > >> the
> > >>>>>> tools >
> > >>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples > > > > > > >for each release though. >
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, a question about OS versions. I believe
> > >> at
> > >>>>> least
> > >>>>>>> two
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> releases > > > > > > >should be supported because most
> > >>> people
> > >>>>>> don't
> > >>>>>>>>>> upgrade
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to the > > latest > > > > > > version > > > > > > >when
> > >> it
> > >>> is
> > >>>>> out
> > >>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>>>> serious scenarios, hence IMO the second > > > oldest > >
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> could
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often be more useful than the latest one from a
> > >>>>>>> convenience
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> point > > of > > > > > view. > > > > > > >On the other
> > >>> hand,
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>> too
> > >>>>>>>>>>> flexible, and we will spend time > > > > thinking > > > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> about
> > >>>>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>>>>>> again. I think a clear guideline could be helpful to >
> > >> us.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> For
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example: > > > > > > >- We only include only
> > >> Debian
> > >>>>>> (popular
> > >>>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> server world) and > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > >(popular in
> > >>>> servers
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> workstations). > > > > > > >- for the main OS (Debian) we
> > >>>>> choose
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>> latest
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to compile and > > test > > > > for > > > > > > our > >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> binary
> > >>>>>>>>>>> release. > > > > > > >- for a given OS, only two versions
> > >>>> (most
> > >>>>>>>> likely
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> most and > the > > > > second > > > > > > >recent
> > >> releases)
> > >>>> are
> > >>>>>>>>> included
> > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the core source code and they > > need > > > to > > > > >
> > >>> be
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> fixed ASAP if they don't compile. > > > > > > >- OSs and
> > >>>> other
> > >>>>>>>>> versions
> > >>>>>>>>>>> could be included in a special folder > and > > > but > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> there
> > >>>>>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>>>> no guarantee that the code will compile. Fixes from the >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> community
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> How
> > >>>>>>>>> do
> > >>>>>>>>>>> you guys think? > > > > > > >--ning > > > > > > > > > >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
Posted by Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io>.
What is it? I/someone else can give some help if needed.
On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 7:20 PM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That is the one I am blocked on. Will need to do another full tests before
> starting the vote.
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 2:22 PM Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io> wrote:
>
> > I just opened a PR that fixes javadoc generation for the website build.
> Do
> > we have anything else outstanding before we can start a vote on the next
> > release candidate?
> >
> > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:31 AM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah. We have chosen Debian 10 for the binary release and clean up the
> > > license requirements for the first binary release.
> > >
> > > In the source level, we would also like to include a few
> > platforms/versions
> > > in the main source code to be "supported" and the others will be moved
> to
> > > like a "extra" folder and not actively supported/tested.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:22 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I thought that the purpose of this discussion was to find the one or
> > two
> > > > platforms for Heron to support in order to keep down the complexity
> of
> > > > making the first binary release for the community.
> > > >
> > > > Other platforms could be on a roadmap for future releases.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > > On May 26, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My concern about "latest" is that I feel most people hold it for
> some
> > > > time
> > > > > before migrating to the latest version (if it ever happens). If
> there
> > > are
> > > > > numbers, it could make sense to use the most popular version (plus
> > the
> > > > > other criterias).
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:14 PM Oliver Bristow <
> > > > oliver@oliverbristow.co.uk>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Sorry if I missed the rationale for Ubuntu 18.04 instead of 20.04,
> > but
> > > > >> would the latest LTS be a better choice? 18.04 was released before
> > > > Debian
> > > > >> 10, so that may be an argument for 20.04 re. compatibility if
> Debian
> > > 10
> > > > is
> > > > >> the standard.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> There's already a 20.04 Dockerfile + I It looks like the vagrant
> > setup
> > > > will
> > > > >> get an upgrade from 14.04 to 20.04 as a part of the python3
> upgrade,
> > > and
> > > > >> seems to run fine so far.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 19:30, Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> +1.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> So my understanding is:
> > > > >>>> binary (in future release): Debian 10.
> > > > >>>> source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers
> > will
> > > be
> > > > >>>> updated in the future after more discussions/votes.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer <
> josh@joshfischer.io
> > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hi All,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of
> > > CentOS/Debian
> > > > >>>> would
> > > > >>>>> be the better options for us to support multiple versions for
> the
> > > > >>>>> community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> So..... I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote
> on
> > > > >> this.
> > > > >>>>> I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread
> > covers
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>>> get
> > > > >>>>> some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything
> down
> > > > >>>>> incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Debian:
> > > > >>>>> - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be
> > > > >> published
> > > > >>>> to
> > > > >>>>> Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9.
> > > > >>>>> CentOS:
> > > > >>>>> - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has
> native
> > > > >>>>> Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet.
> > > > >>>>> Ubuntu:
> > > > >>>>> - We will still support one version. At this time the
> version
> > is
> > > > >>>> 18.04.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as
> > > updates/deprecation
> > > > >> of
> > > > >>>>> support are needed.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please
> > > check
> > > > >>> that
> > > > >>>>> the statements I wrote down are what you understood!
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> See below for notes on lazy consensus:
> > > > >>>>> https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> - Josh
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang <
> wangninggm@gmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> +1
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis <
> > > > >>>> nicholas.nezis@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I like those options.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer <
> > > > >> josh@joshfischer.io
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we
> can
> > > > >>>> start a
> > > > >>>>>>> vote
> > > > >>>>>>>> to make a final decision on which containers for us to
> > support.
> > > > >>>> Keep
> > > > >>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>> mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support
> > > > >>> (There
> > > > >>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>> work
> > > > >>>>>>>> in progress now) we do not need it as of yet.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> - Josh
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 <
> thinker0@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would
> be
> > > > >>> nice
> > > > >>>>> if
> > > > >>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > >>>>>>>>> included.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer <
> josh@joshfischer.io
> > > > >>> 님이
> > > > >>>> 작성:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the
> > > > >>> criteria
> > > > >>>>>> down
> > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about
> > > > >>>> overall
> > > > >>>>>>>> support
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and what others would need/want.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> +1
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> - Josh
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong <
> > > > >>>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> My experience is that, people tends to pick their
> > > > >> container
> > > > >>>>> image
> > > > >>>>>>> OS
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> based
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> on few criterias only:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and
> > > > >>> 3rd
> > > > >>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much
> > > > >>>>> library
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> provided
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and require to compile manually. debian is always good
> > > > >>>> because
> > > > >>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>> has
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as
> > > > >>> debian
> > > > >>>>>>> because
> > > > >>>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because
> > > > >>> it
> > > > >>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>> fat,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> but
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> provides very large range of libraries to use.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has
> > > > >>> issue
> > > > >>>>> with
> > > > >>>>>>> DNS
> > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine
> > > > >> has
> > > > >>>>> some
> > > > >>>>>> as
> > > > >>>>>>>>> well,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be
> > > > >> done
> > > > >>>>>>> manually.
> > > > >>>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this case, centos and debian should win.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu,
> > > > >> centos,
> > > > >>>> are
> > > > >>>>> 3
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> different
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick
> > > > >>>> their
> > > > >>>>>>> base
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> image
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> based on what they often use in their life. However, I
> > > > >> see
> > > > >>> a
> > > > >>>>> lot
> > > > >>>>>>>> debian
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in
> > > > >> size.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4. library support. Python library is a very good example
> > > > >>> in
> > > > >>>>> this
> > > > >>>>>>>> case.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> As
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python
> > > > >>> 3.7+,
> > > > >>>>>> some
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> discontinued based OS version does not provide the
> > > > >> support
> > > > >>>>>> anymore.
> > > > >>>>>>>> We
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> have
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5,
> > > > >>>> ubuntu
> > > > >>>>>>> 14.04
> > > > >>>>>>>>> does
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to
> > > > >> Python
> > > > >>>> 3.5
> > > > >>>>>>> only.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding
> > > > >>>> all 4
> > > > >>>>>>>> points
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports
> > > > >> python37),
> > > > >>>>>>> debian10
> > > > >>>>>>>>> (not
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> debian9), ubuntu 18.04 (supports python3.7+) would be the
> > > > >>>> best
> > > > >>>>>>>> solution
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> at
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the moment. We have to cut off the old images due to our
> > > > >>>>> library
> > > > >>>>>>>>> upgrade
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and this is unavoidable. Otherwise, we would have tons of
> > > > >>>>> issues
> > > > >>>>>>>>> sending
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> about library support in the future and the workload
> > > > >> could
> > > > >>>> be a
> > > > >>>>>> lot
> > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> for just answering questions.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Windham Wong
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder, Technical Director of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Stormeye.io, Hong Kong Managed Security Operation Center
> > > > >>>>> Limited
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Email // windham.wong@stormeye.io (mailto:
> > > > >>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io
> > > > >>>>>>> )
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Phone // +852_3590_2212_|_+852_9832_0707
> > > > >> (tel:+85235902212)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Fax // +852_3590_2202 (tel:+852_3590_2202)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 5月 19 2020, at 6:09 早上, Josh Fischer <
> > > > >>> josh@joshfischer.io
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, I think using CentOS and either Debian or
> > > > >> Ubuntu
> > > > >>>> is a
> > > > >>>>>>> good
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> idea.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I would pick Debian over Ubuntu for the reason that Nick
> > > > >>>>> pointed
> > > > >>>>>>> out
> > > > >>>>>>>>> in a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> previous email of DNS issues in Kubernetes. I"ve copy and
> > > > >>>>> pasted
> > > > >>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> section
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of Nick's previous email. ### Start I've run into issues
> > > > >>> with
> > > > >>>>>>> Ubuntu
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> images
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> having DNS issues in Kubernetes.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 ### End
> > > > >>> As
> > > > >>>>> for
> > > > >>>>>>> what
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ends
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> up being the official Docker container I'm fine with
> > > > >> either
> > > > >>>>>> choice
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Debian
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> or CentOS. On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:10 AM Ning Wang
> > > > >>> wrote: >
> > > > >>>>>> Yeah.
> > > > >>>>>>>> For
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> binary release, the license is a huge factor. > > On Sun,
> > > > >>> May
> > > > >>>>> 17,
> > > > >>>>>>>> 2020
> > > > >>>>>>>>> at
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2:32 PM Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When it
> > > > >>>> comes
> > > > >>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> choosing
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the official Apache Docker image for Heron we > > have to
> > > > >>>> think
> > > > >>>>>> of
> > > > >>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> licensing issues first. Everything that is > installed >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> into
> > > > >>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> container at build time with the exception of the "FROM"
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> statement
> > > > >>>>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Dockerfile must be ALv2 compatible. OpenJDK is under
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>> GPLv2
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> which
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is not compatible with Apache. However we can get around
> > > > >>> this
> > > > >>>>> if
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> we
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> bring the OpenJDK into the container via a FROM
> > > > >> statement.
> > > > >>>> I've
> > > > >>>>>>>> copied
> > > > >>>>>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> reply from Dave in our dev list in a previous email.
> > > > >> See
> > > > >>>>> below.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ######## Start ######## > > Regarding OpenJDK and GPL2 -
> > > > >>> here
> > > > >>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>> what
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Roman
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the VP, Legal wrote when > > answering Beam’s questions.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Roman
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Shaposhnik commented on LEGAL-503: > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- > > > > Hey
> > > > >>> [~altay]
> > > > >>>>> if
> > > > >>>>>>> you
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> would
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> like to continue linking to the Docker release > >
> > > > >> artifact
> > > > >>>>> from
> > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://beam.apache.org > > you will have: > > 1.
> > > > >>> Transition
> > > > >>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> official ASF dockerhub org: > >
> > > > >>>>> https://hub.docker.com/u/apache
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> 2.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Start including that binary convenience artifact into
> > > > >> your
> > > > >>>> VOTE
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> threads
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> on Beam releases > > 3. Make sure that all Cat-X licenses
> > > > >>> are
> > > > >>>>>> ONLY
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> brought
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> into your > > container via FROM statements > > ########
> > > > >>> End
> > > > >>>>>>>> ######## >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> So at the end of the day, we need to use a container
> > > > >> that
> > > > >>>> has
> > > > >>>>>>> Java
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> already > > installed in it so that when we create our
> > > > >>>> official
> > > > >>>>>>> image
> > > > >>>>>>>>> we
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> can inherit > > that java containing image via a FROM
> > > > >>>>> statement.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> -
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Josh > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:12 PM H W
> > > > >>> wrote: >
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> We
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> use Centos 7 as well. > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at
> > > > >>>> 10:41
> > > > >>>>>> AM
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Nicholas
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Nezis < > > nicholas.nezis@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Some
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> thoughts I'd like to add to the discussion: > > > > > >
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Debian
> > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu are somewhat similar. Would it make sense to pick
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> one
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> those and pair with Centos? > > > > > > > > I've run
> > > > >>> into
> > > > >>>>>>> issues
> > > > >>>>>>>>> with
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu images having DNS issues in > > Kubernetes. > > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 > > > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Ubuntu
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 14.04 should be removed. It was end of life last year.
> > > > >> For
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> those
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you using Heron in production, is anyone using
> > > > >>> Ubuntu
> > > > >>>>> 16?
> > > > >>>>>>> My
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> vote >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> would > > > be > > > > to remove it also. For what it's
> > > > >>>> worth,
> > > > >>>>> my
> > > > >>>>>>> use
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> case
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is in K8s and we > > use > > > > the Centos7 image on a
> > > > >>>> Centos
> > > > >>>>> 7
> > > > >>>>>>> OS.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We should do a test of the official image and
> > > > >>> helm
> > > > >>>>>> chart
> > > > >>>>>>>> in >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Kubernetes > > > > (maybe with Kind
> > > > >>>> https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/
> > > > >>>>> )
> > > > >>>>>> as
> > > > >>>>>>>>> part
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of our release > > > > process. This might be nice to add
> > > > >>> as
> > > > >>>> an
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> integration
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> On
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Sun, May 17, 2020, 12:37 PM Ning Wang > wrote: > > > > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> That
> > > > >>>>>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> good point. We need to adjust the OS version accordingly
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> too. >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:28 AM Windham Wong <
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debian 10 has no python 2.7 support. Ubuntu
> > > > >> 16.04
> > > > >>>> has
> > > > >>>>>> no
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> python >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 3.7+ > > > > dev > > > > > > library support. hope this
> > > > >>>> helps
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > > Sent from myMail for Android Sunday, 17
> > > > >> May
> > > > >>>>> 2020,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> 11:34AM
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> +08:00 > > from > > > > > Ning > > > > > > Wang
> > > > >>>>>>> wangninggm@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>>>>>> : >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We
> > > > >>> have
> > > > >>>>>>> talked
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> about
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it a few times in different places. Let's > > make > > >
> > > > >> a
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> decision here. We don't have enough resources to support
> > > > >>>> many
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> docker >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSes > > > > > > >(technically we only support
> > > > >>>> Debian,
> > > > >>>>>>>> Ubuntu,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> CentOS but each > > of > > > > them > > > > > > >has
> > > > >>> multiple
> > > > >>>>>>>>> versions).
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Things we have agreed on (my
> > > > >>>>>>> understanding)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - for binary release, we are going to choose one
> > > > >> OS
> > > > >>>> one
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> version. I
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember that Debian 9 was the decision. An
> > > > >>> open
> > > > >>>>>>>> question
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> do > > we > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > >switch
> > > > >>> to
> > > > >>>>>> Debian
> > > > >>>>>>>> 10
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> now?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> We haven't had a binary release yet, so > > > there > > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> still time. As the main target, I think 1. the image
> > > > >>>> should
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> compile
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully. and 2 the image should be
> > > > >>> tested:
> > > > >>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>> tools
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> an > > > > example > > > > > > >topology. > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> -
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> for
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> source release, we haven't talked about it very much. > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Personally
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel it is a reasonable expectation that, if
> > > > >>> we
> > > > >>>>> have
> > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Docker > > file > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> core
> > > > >>>>>>> folders,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> should at least compile. Otherwise, it's a > failed > >
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> build >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hence a failed release. We are not going to test run
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>>>> tools >
> > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples > > > > > > >for each release though. >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, a question about OS versions. I believe
> > > > >> at
> > > > >>>>> least
> > > > >>>>>>> two
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> releases > > > > > > >should be supported because most
> > > > >>> people
> > > > >>>>>> don't
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> upgrade
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to the > > latest > > > > > > version > > > > > > >when
> > > > >> it
> > > > >>> is
> > > > >>>>> out
> > > > >>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> serious scenarios, hence IMO the second > > > oldest > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> could
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often be more useful than the latest one from a
> > > > >>>>>>> convenience
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> point > > of > > > > > view. > > > > > > >On the other
> > > > >>> hand,
> > > > >>>>> this
> > > > >>>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>> too
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> flexible, and we will spend time > > > > thinking > > > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > > >>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> again. I think a clear guideline could be helpful to >
> > > > >> us.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> For
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example: > > > > > > >- We only include only
> > > > >> Debian
> > > > >>>>>> (popular
> > > > >>>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> server world) and > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > >(popular in
> > > > >>>> servers
> > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> workstations). > > > > > > >- for the main OS (Debian) we
> > > > >>>>> choose
> > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> latest
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to compile and > > test > > > > for > > > > > > our > >
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> binary
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> release. > > > > > > >- for a given OS, only two versions
> > > > >>>> (most
> > > > >>>>>>>> likely
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> most and > the > > > > second > > > > > > >recent
> > > > >> releases)
> > > > >>>> are
> > > > >>>>>>>>> included
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the core source code and they > > need > > > to > > > > >
> > > > >>> be
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> fixed ASAP if they don't compile. > > > > > > >- OSs and
> > > > >>>> other
> > > > >>>>>>>>> versions
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> could be included in a special folder > and > > > but > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> there
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> no guarantee that the code will compile. Fixes from the >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> community
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> How
> > > > >>>>>>>>> do
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> you guys think? > > > > > > >--ning > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
Posted by Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>.
That is the one I am blocked on. Will need to do another full tests before
starting the vote.
On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 2:22 PM Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io> wrote:
> I just opened a PR that fixes javadoc generation for the website build. Do
> we have anything else outstanding before we can start a vote on the next
> release candidate?
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:31 AM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yeah. We have chosen Debian 10 for the binary release and clean up the
> > license requirements for the first binary release.
> >
> > In the source level, we would also like to include a few
> platforms/versions
> > in the main source code to be "supported" and the others will be moved to
> > like a "extra" folder and not actively supported/tested.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:22 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I thought that the purpose of this discussion was to find the one or
> two
> > > platforms for Heron to support in order to keep down the complexity of
> > > making the first binary release for the community.
> > >
> > > Other platforms could be on a roadmap for future releases.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > > On May 26, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My concern about "latest" is that I feel most people hold it for some
> > > time
> > > > before migrating to the latest version (if it ever happens). If there
> > are
> > > > numbers, it could make sense to use the most popular version (plus
> the
> > > > other criterias).
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:14 PM Oliver Bristow <
> > > oliver@oliverbristow.co.uk>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Sorry if I missed the rationale for Ubuntu 18.04 instead of 20.04,
> but
> > > >> would the latest LTS be a better choice? 18.04 was released before
> > > Debian
> > > >> 10, so that may be an argument for 20.04 re. compatibility if Debian
> > 10
> > > is
> > > >> the standard.
> > > >>
> > > >> There's already a 20.04 Dockerfile + I It looks like the vagrant
> setup
> > > will
> > > >> get an upgrade from 14.04 to 20.04 as a part of the python3 upgrade,
> > and
> > > >> seems to run fine so far.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 19:30, Josh Fischer <jo...@joshfischer.io>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> +1.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> So my understanding is:
> > > >>>> binary (in future release): Debian 10.
> > > >>>> source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers
> will
> > be
> > > >>>> updated in the future after more discussions/votes.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer <josh@joshfischer.io
> >
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Hi All,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of
> > CentOS/Debian
> > > >>>> would
> > > >>>>> be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the
> > > >>>>> community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> So..... I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on
> > > >> this.
> > > >>>>> I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread
> covers
> > > >> to
> > > >>>> get
> > > >>>>> some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down
> > > >>>>> incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Debian:
> > > >>>>> - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be
> > > >> published
> > > >>>> to
> > > >>>>> Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9.
> > > >>>>> CentOS:
> > > >>>>> - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native
> > > >>>>> Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet.
> > > >>>>> Ubuntu:
> > > >>>>> - We will still support one version. At this time the version
> is
> > > >>>> 18.04.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as
> > updates/deprecation
> > > >> of
> > > >>>>> support are needed.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please
> > check
> > > >>> that
> > > >>>>> the statements I wrote down are what you understood!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> See below for notes on lazy consensus:
> > > >>>>> https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> - Josh
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang <wa...@gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> +1
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis <
> > > >>>> nicholas.nezis@gmail.com
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I like those options.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer <
> > > >> josh@joshfischer.io
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can
> > > >>>> start a
> > > >>>>>>> vote
> > > >>>>>>>> to make a final decision on which containers for us to
> support.
> > > >>>> Keep
> > > >>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>> mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support
> > > >>> (There
> > > >>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>> work
> > > >>>>>>>> in progress now) we do not need it as of yet.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> - Josh
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 <th...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be
> > > >>> nice
> > > >>>>> if
> > > >>>>>> it
> > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > >>>>>>>>> included.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer <josh@joshfischer.io
> > > >>> 님이
> > > >>>> 작성:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the
> > > >>> criteria
> > > >>>>>> down
> > > >>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about
> > > >>>> overall
> > > >>>>>>>> support
> > > >>>>>>>>>> and what others would need/want.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> +1
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> - Josh
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong <
> > > >>>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> My experience is that, people tends to pick their
> > > >> container
> > > >>>>> image
> > > >>>>>>> OS
> > > >>>>>>>>>> based
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> on few criterias only:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and
> > > >>> 3rd
> > > >>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much
> > > >>>>> library
> > > >>>>>>>>>> provided
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> and require to compile manually. debian is always good
> > > >>>> because
> > > >>>>> it
> > > >>>>>>> has
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as
> > > >>> debian
> > > >>>>>>> because
> > > >>>>>>>>> it
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because
> > > >>> it
> > > >>>> is
> > > >>>>>>> fat,
> > > >>>>>>>>> but
> > > >>>>>>>>>> it
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> provides very large range of libraries to use.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has
> > > >>> issue
> > > >>>>> with
> > > >>>>>>> DNS
> > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine
> > > >> has
> > > >>>>> some
> > > >>>>>> as
> > > >>>>>>>>> well,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be
> > > >> done
> > > >>>>>>> manually.
> > > >>>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> this case, centos and debian should win.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu,
> > > >> centos,
> > > >>>> are
> > > >>>>> 3
> > > >>>>>>>>>> different
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick
> > > >>>> their
> > > >>>>>>> base
> > > >>>>>>>>>> image
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> based on what they often use in their life. However, I
> > > >> see
> > > >>> a
> > > >>>>> lot
> > > >>>>>>>> debian
> > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in
> > > >> size.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 4. library support. Python library is a very good example
> > > >>> in
> > > >>>>> this
> > > >>>>>>>> case.
> > > >>>>>>>>>> As
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python
> > > >>> 3.7+,
> > > >>>>>> some
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> discontinued based OS version does not provide the
> > > >> support
> > > >>>>>> anymore.
> > > >>>>>>>> We
> > > >>>>>>>>>> have
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5,
> > > >>>> ubuntu
> > > >>>>>>> 14.04
> > > >>>>>>>>> does
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to
> > > >> Python
> > > >>>> 3.5
> > > >>>>>>> only.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding
> > > >>>> all 4
> > > >>>>>>>> points
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports
> > > >> python37),
> > > >>>>>>> debian10
> > > >>>>>>>>> (not
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> debian9), ubuntu 18.04 (supports python3.7+) would be the
> > > >>>> best
> > > >>>>>>>> solution
> > > >>>>>>>>>> at
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the moment. We have to cut off the old images due to our
> > > >>>>> library
> > > >>>>>>>>> upgrade
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> and this is unavoidable. Otherwise, we would have tons of
> > > >>>>> issues
> > > >>>>>>>>> sending
> > > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> about library support in the future and the workload
> > > >> could
> > > >>>> be a
> > > >>>>>> lot
> > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> for just answering questions.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Windham Wong
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder, Technical Director of
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Stormeye.io, Hong Kong Managed Security Operation Center
> > > >>>>> Limited
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Email // windham.wong@stormeye.io (mailto:
> > > >>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io
> > > >>>>>>> )
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Phone // +852_3590_2212_|_+852_9832_0707
> > > >> (tel:+85235902212)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Fax // +852_3590_2202 (tel:+852_3590_2202)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 5月 19 2020, at 6:09 早上, Josh Fischer <
> > > >>> josh@joshfischer.io
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, I think using CentOS and either Debian or
> > > >> Ubuntu
> > > >>>> is a
> > > >>>>>>> good
> > > >>>>>>>>>> idea.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I would pick Debian over Ubuntu for the reason that Nick
> > > >>>>> pointed
> > > >>>>>>> out
> > > >>>>>>>>> in a
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> previous email of DNS issues in Kubernetes. I"ve copy and
> > > >>>>> pasted
> > > >>>>>> a
> > > >>>>>>>>>> section
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> of Nick's previous email. ### Start I've run into issues
> > > >>> with
> > > >>>>>>> Ubuntu
> > > >>>>>>>>>> images
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> having DNS issues in Kubernetes.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 ### End
> > > >>> As
> > > >>>>> for
> > > >>>>>>> what
> > > >>>>>>>>>> ends
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> up being the official Docker container I'm fine with
> > > >> either
> > > >>>>>> choice
> > > >>>>>>>>> Debian
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> or CentOS. On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:10 AM Ning Wang
> > > >>> wrote: >
> > > >>>>>> Yeah.
> > > >>>>>>>> For
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> binary release, the license is a huge factor. > > On Sun,
> > > >>> May
> > > >>>>> 17,
> > > >>>>>>>> 2020
> > > >>>>>>>>> at
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2:32 PM Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When it
> > > >>>> comes
> > > >>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>> choosing
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the official Apache Docker image for Heron we > > have to
> > > >>>> think
> > > >>>>>> of
> > > >>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> licensing issues first. Everything that is > installed >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> into
> > > >>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> container at build time with the exception of the "FROM"
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> statement
> > > >>>>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Dockerfile must be ALv2 compatible. OpenJDK is under
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> GPLv2
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> which
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> is not compatible with Apache. However we can get around
> > > >>> this
> > > >>>>> if
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> we
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> bring the OpenJDK into the container via a FROM
> > > >> statement.
> > > >>>> I've
> > > >>>>>>>> copied
> > > >>>>>>>>> a
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> reply from Dave in our dev list in a previous email.
> > > >> See
> > > >>>>> below.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> ######## Start ######## > > Regarding OpenJDK and GPL2 -
> > > >>> here
> > > >>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>> what
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Roman
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the VP, Legal wrote when > > answering Beam’s questions.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Roman
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Shaposhnik commented on LEGAL-503: > >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- > > > > Hey
> > > >>> [~altay]
> > > >>>>> if
> > > >>>>>>> you
> > > >>>>>>>>>> would
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> like to continue linking to the Docker release > >
> > > >> artifact
> > > >>>>> from
> > > >>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://beam.apache.org > > you will have: > > 1.
> > > >>> Transition
> > > >>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> official ASF dockerhub org: > >
> > > >>>>> https://hub.docker.com/u/apache
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> 2.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Start including that binary convenience artifact into
> > > >> your
> > > >>>> VOTE
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> threads
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> on Beam releases > > 3. Make sure that all Cat-X licenses
> > > >>> are
> > > >>>>>> ONLY
> > > >>>>>>>>>> brought
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> into your > > container via FROM statements > > ########
> > > >>> End
> > > >>>>>>>> ######## >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> So at the end of the day, we need to use a container
> > > >> that
> > > >>>> has
> > > >>>>>>> Java
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> already > > installed in it so that when we create our
> > > >>>> official
> > > >>>>>>> image
> > > >>>>>>>>> we
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> can inherit > > that java containing image via a FROM
> > > >>>>> statement.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> -
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Josh > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:12 PM H W
> > > >>> wrote: >
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> We
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> use Centos 7 as well. > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at
> > > >>>> 10:41
> > > >>>>>> AM
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Nicholas
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Nezis < > > nicholas.nezis@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Some
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> thoughts I'd like to add to the discussion: > > > > > >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>> Debian
> > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu are somewhat similar. Would it make sense to pick
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> one
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> of
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> those and pair with Centos? > > > > > > > > I've run
> > > >>> into
> > > >>>>>>> issues
> > > >>>>>>>>> with
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu images having DNS issues in > > Kubernetes. > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 > > > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Ubuntu
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 14.04 should be removed. It was end of life last year.
> > > >> For
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>> those
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> of
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you using Heron in production, is anyone using
> > > >>> Ubuntu
> > > >>>>> 16?
> > > >>>>>>> My
> > > >>>>>>>>>> vote >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> would > > > be > > > > to remove it also. For what it's
> > > >>>> worth,
> > > >>>>> my
> > > >>>>>>> use
> > > >>>>>>>>>> case
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> is in K8s and we > > use > > > > the Centos7 image on a
> > > >>>> Centos
> > > >>>>> 7
> > > >>>>>>> OS.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We should do a test of the official image and
> > > >>> helm
> > > >>>>>> chart
> > > >>>>>>>> in >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Kubernetes > > > > (maybe with Kind
> > > >>>> https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/
> > > >>>>> )
> > > >>>>>> as
> > > >>>>>>>>> part
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> of our release > > > > process. This might be nice to add
> > > >>> as
> > > >>>> an
> > > >>>>>>>>>> integration
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> On
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Sun, May 17, 2020, 12:37 PM Ning Wang > wrote: > > > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> That
> > > >>>>>>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>>> a
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> good point. We need to adjust the OS version accordingly
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>> too. >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:28 AM Windham Wong <
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> windham.wong@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debian 10 has no python 2.7 support. Ubuntu
> > > >> 16.04
> > > >>>> has
> > > >>>>>> no
> > > >>>>>>>>>> python >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 3.7+ > > > > dev > > > > > > library support. hope this
> > > >>>> helps
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > > Sent from myMail for Android Sunday, 17
> > > >> May
> > > >>>>> 2020,
> > > >>>>>>>>> 11:34AM
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> +08:00 > > from > > > > > Ning > > > > > > Wang
> > > >>>>>>> wangninggm@gmail.com
> > > >>>>>>>>> : >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We
> > > >>> have
> > > >>>>>>> talked
> > > >>>>>>>>>> about
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> it a few times in different places. Let's > > make > > >
> > > >> a
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> decision here. We don't have enough resources to support
> > > >>>> many
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> docker >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSes > > > > > > >(technically we only support
> > > >>>> Debian,
> > > >>>>>>>> Ubuntu,
> > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> CentOS but each > > of > > > > them > > > > > > >has
> > > >>> multiple
> > > >>>>>>>>> versions).
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Things we have agreed on (my
> > > >>>>>>> understanding)
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - for binary release, we are going to choose one
> > > >> OS
> > > >>>> one
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> version. I
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember that Debian 9 was the decision. An
> > > >>> open
> > > >>>>>>>> question
> > > >>>>>>>>>> is:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> do > > we > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > >switch
> > > >>> to
> > > >>>>>> Debian
> > > >>>>>>>> 10
> > > >>>>>>>>>> now?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> We haven't had a binary release yet, so > > > there > > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> still time. As the main target, I think 1. the image
> > > >>>> should
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> compile
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully. and 2 the image should be
> > > >>> tested:
> > > >>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>> tools
> > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> an > > > > example > > > > > > >topology. > > > > > > >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> -
> > > >>>>>>>>>> for
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> source release, we haven't talked about it very much. > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Personally
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel it is a reasonable expectation that, if
> > > >>> we
> > > >>>>> have
> > > >>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Docker > > file > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > >
> > > >>>> core
> > > >>>>>>> folders,
> > > >>>>>>>>> it
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> should at least compile. Otherwise, it's a > failed > >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>> build >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hence a failed release. We are not going to test run
> > > >> the
> > > >>>>>> tools >
> > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples > > > > > > >for each release though. >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, a question about OS versions. I believe
> > > >> at
> > > >>>>> least
> > > >>>>>>> two
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> releases > > > > > > >should be supported because most
> > > >>> people
> > > >>>>>> don't
> > > >>>>>>>>>> upgrade
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> to the > > latest > > > > > > version > > > > > > >when
> > > >> it
> > > >>> is
> > > >>>>> out
> > > >>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> serious scenarios, hence IMO the second > > > oldest > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> could
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often be more useful than the latest one from a
> > > >>>>>>> convenience
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> point > > of > > > > > view. > > > > > > >On the other
> > > >>> hand,
> > > >>>>> this
> > > >>>>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>> too
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> flexible, and we will spend time > > > > thinking > > > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > >>>>>>>> it
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> again. I think a clear guideline could be helpful to >
> > > >> us.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> For
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example: > > > > > > >- We only include only
> > > >> Debian
> > > >>>>>> (popular
> > > >>>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> server world) and > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > >(popular in
> > > >>>> servers
> > > >>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> workstations). > > > > > > >- for the main OS (Debian) we
> > > >>>>> choose
> > > >>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>> latest
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> to compile and > > test > > > > for > > > > > > our > >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> binary
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> release. > > > > > > >- for a given OS, only two versions
> > > >>>> (most
> > > >>>>>>>> likely
> > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> most and > the > > > > second > > > > > > >recent
> > > >> releases)
> > > >>>> are
> > > >>>>>>>>> included
> > > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the core source code and they > > need > > > to > > > > >
> > > >>> be
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> fixed ASAP if they don't compile. > > > > > > >- OSs and
> > > >>>> other
> > > >>>>>>>>> versions
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> could be included in a special folder > and > > > but > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> there
> > > >>>>>>>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> no guarantee that the code will compile. Fixes from the >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> community
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> How
> > > >>>>>>>>> do
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> you guys think? > > > > > > >--ning > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>