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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org> on 2003/01/23 08:43:33 UTC
tag in docv11
Howdy,
Anyone mind if I add <acronym title="blah">blah</acronym> to
document-v11.mod? It's quite handy on occasion.
Attached is the diff.
--Jeff
Re: sync with docbood was Re: Out-of-line links (Re: tag in docv11)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 10:52:24AM -0800, Nick Chalko wrote:
> Jeff T
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Maybe something like a <keyword>forrestbot</keyword> can be also useful
> >>>for
> >>>indexing and searching?
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >Docbook uses such things to build indexes. If we could declare
> >taxonomies of words (eg 'pelican' is a typeof 'bird'), I'd imagine search
> >results could be more accurate.
> >
> >
>
> I would apprecitate it if on all new tags, forrest checks what docbook
> has and tries to match.
But that ruins the fun of guessing "Forrest equivalent for Docbook
feature X" ;(
:) Anyway, doc-v11 is intensely annoying for anything beyond simple
website docs. It would be better to simply support multiple formats,
rather than attempt to evolve docv11 into Docbook.
--Jeff
> --
> Nick Chalko Show me the code.
> Centipede
> Ant + autodownloadable build plugins + needed jars autodownload.
> http://krysalis.org/centipede
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
re: sync with docbood was Re: Out-of-line links (Re: tag
in docv11)
Posted by Nick Chalko <ni...@chalko.com>.
Jeff T
>
>
>
>>>Maybe something like a <keyword>forrestbot</keyword> can be also useful for
>>>indexing and searching?
>>>
>>>
>
>Docbook uses such things to build indexes. If we could declare
>taxonomies of words (eg 'pelican' is a typeof 'bird'), I'd imagine search
>results could be more accurate.
>
>
I would apprecitate it if on all new tags, forrest checks what docbook
has and tries to match.
--
Nick Chalko Show me the code.
Centipede
Ant + autodownloadable build plugins + needed jars autodownload.
http://krysalis.org/centipede
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Out-of-line links (Re: tag in docv11)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 12:00:31AM +0100, J.Pietschmann wrote:
> Jeff Turner wrote:
> >Docbook uses such things to build indexes. If we could declare
> >taxonomies of words (eg 'pelican' is a typeof 'bird'), I'd imagine search
> >results could be more accurate.
>
> Oops another semantic web convert. :-)
> Don't forget to plunder existing repositories for ideas, tags,
> taxonomies and data.
> Some keywords to search for: Cyc, OpenCyc, Virtual Hyper Glossary.
The VHG has a nice example of automatically marking up a doc with
glossary references:
http://www.vhg.org.uk/software/chem2.gif
http://www.vhg.org.uk/software/index.html
I downloaded OpenCYC last night. It's pretty impressive, and has a good
tutorial. With a SOAP interface it would make a killer web service.
> However, be prepared for a desillusionment too. There is a reason
> that this isn't already widely used.
It all seems rather academic. Overcomplicated solutions looking for
problems to justify their learning cost. I'm sure in vertical industries
there are lots of opportunities for using ontologies 'n things, but it's
going to take a lot of imagination and foresight to work them into
Forrest. [RT]'s welcome.
--Jeff
> BTW I've seen the pendulum swing into the "simple" XHTML-like
> markup, now it seems to return to the "semantic" DocBook-like
> direction...
>
> J.Pietschmann
>
Re: Out-of-line links (Re: tag in docv11)
Posted by "J.Pietschmann" <j3...@yahoo.de>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> Docbook uses such things to build indexes. If we could declare
> taxonomies of words (eg 'pelican' is a typeof 'bird'), I'd imagine search
> results could be more accurate.
Oops another semantic web convert. :-)
Don't forget to plunder existing repositories for ideas, tags,
taxonomies and data.
Some keywords to search for: Cyc, OpenCyc, Virtual Hyper Glossary.
However, be prepared for a desillusionment too. There is a reason
that this isn't already widely used.
BTW I've seen the pendulum swing into the "simple" XHTML-like
markup, now it seems to return to the "semantic" DocBook-like
direction...
J.Pietschmann
Re: Out-of-line links (Re: tag in docv11)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
[...]
> It's not an either/or choice though.. for now, we can allow <acronym> in
> the source. Then later, we can implement a transformer that 'marks up'
> raw text with tags like <acronym>.
...
> Again, we could start by defining an explicit <term> tag, and then
> later have a MarkupTransformer adding them for certain words.
+1
>>>Maybe something like a <keyword>forrestbot</keyword> can be also useful for
>>>indexing and searching?
>
> Docbook uses such things to build indexes. If we could declare
> taxonomies of words (eg 'pelican' is a typeof 'bird'), I'd imagine search
> results could be more accurate.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Out-of-line links (Re: tag in docv11)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 09:19:03AM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> Konstantin Piroumian wrote:
> >From: "Jeff Turner" <je...@apache.org>
> >
> >>Howdy,
> >>
> >>Anyone mind if I add <acronym title="blah">blah</acronym> to
> >>document-v11.mod? It's quite handy on occasion.
> >
> >
> >What's the use of it? Something like: <acronym title="ASF">Apache Software
> >Foundation</acronym> or the opposite <acronym title="Apache Software
> >Foundation">ASF</acronym>? How would it be displayed?
<acronym title="Apache Software Foundation">ASF</acronym>. It's up to
the browser how to display it. Mozilla (and I think IE?) have a light
underline and display the @title on mouse rollovers.
> Yes, I'm always confused by acronym, cite, blah...
>
> Anyway, probably I'd like to see a glossary.xml that can keep terms,
> acronyms, etc in a central place. The coolest thing would be not to have
> to tag anything and have a transformer scan all the text for these
> terms, but it's too time comsuming, so we still need a tag. IT could as
> well be: <acronym>blah</acronym> or more generally <term>blah</term> and
> let the glossary.xml take care of making it into an acronym, word, or
> whatever.
That would rock :)
It's not an either/or choice though.. for now, we can allow <acronym> in
the source. Then later, we can implement a transformer that 'marks up'
raw text with tags like <acronym>.
The general idea of out-of-line linking, where you automatically mark up
raw XML, is pretty neat. Some possibilities:
- For jargon-heavy documentation, we could have a <term> tag for
defining certain terms:
"... cell proliferation and apoptosis..."
->
"... cell proliferation and <term href="apoptosis.html" def="When
cells go 'pop'">Apoptosis</term>..."
That can be rendered as either "apoptosis?" (small superscript '?'
link) or <span title="....">apoptosis</span>, ie a rollover
definition.
Again, we could start by defining an explicit <term> tag, and then
later have a MarkupTransformer adding them for certain words.
- We could implement Wiki linking by translating WordsLikeThis into "<link
href="wordslikethis.html">words like this</link>".
- Say we had a controlled vocabulary of geographical place names. We
could automatically mark them up with links to a map of the place:
"... fires in Canberra, Australia ..."
->
"... fires in <link
href="http://www.maps.com/?lat=-35.3&long=149">Canberra,
Australia</link> ..."
that would be very useful for newswire services.
<ot>
At my old company (www.socialchange.net) we implemented this in
an OpenGIS pilot project. It requires some online GIS infrastructure
though: geocoders, gazetteers, WMS mapservers, thesauri.. fun stuff..
anyone up for a gis.apache.org?
</ot>
> >Maybe something like a <keyword>forrestbot</keyword> can be also useful for
> >indexing and searching?
Docbook uses such things to build indexes. If we could declare
taxonomies of words (eg 'pelican' is a typeof 'bird'), I'd imagine search
results could be more accurate.
--Jeff
Re: tag in docv11
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Konstantin Piroumian wrote:
> From: "Jeff Turner" <je...@apache.org>
>
>>Howdy,
>>
>>Anyone mind if I add <acronym title="blah">blah</acronym> to
>>document-v11.mod? It's quite handy on occasion.
>
>
> What's the use of it? Something like: <acronym title="ASF">Apache Software
> Foundation</acronym> or the opposite <acronym title="Apache Software
> Foundation">ASF</acronym>? How would it be displayed?
Yes, I'm always confused by acronym, cite, blah...
Anyway, probably I'd like to see a glossary.xml that can keep terms,
acronyms, etc in a central place. The coolest thing would be not to have
to tag anything and have a transformer scan all the text for these
terms, but it's too time comsuming, so we still need a tag. IT could as
well be: <acronym>blah</acronym> or more generally <term>blah</term> and
let the glossary.xml take care of making it into an acronym, word, or
whatever.
> Maybe something like a <keyword>forrestbot</keyword> can be also useful for
> indexing and searching?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: tag in docv11
Posted by Konstantin Piroumian <kp...@apache.org>.
From: "Jeff Turner" <je...@apache.org>
> Howdy,
>
> Anyone mind if I add <acronym title="blah">blah</acronym> to
> document-v11.mod? It's quite handy on occasion.
What's the use of it? Something like: <acronym title="ASF">Apache Software
Foundation</acronym> or the opposite <acronym title="Apache Software
Foundation">ASF</acronym>? How would it be displayed?
Maybe something like a <keyword>forrestbot</keyword> can be also useful for
indexing and searching?
--
Konstantin
>
> Attached is the diff.
>
>
> --Jeff
>
>
Re: tag in docv11
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 08:49:12AM +0100, Steven Noels wrote:
> Jeff Turner wrote:
>
> >Anyone mind if I add <acronym title="blah">blah</acronym> to
> >document-v11.mod? It's quite handy on occasion.
> >
> >Attached is the diff.
>
> no diff attached, but please go forward
I've committed it and the sample shows it in action:
http://forrestbot.cocoondev.org/sites/xml-forrest-template/sample.html
The text 'TLA' is acronym'ed.
> must we go through the entire versioning thing then?
Ick.. guess we should. Or at least decide how to handle DTD versioning
before a 0.3 release.
--Jeff
> </Steven>
> --
> Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
> Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
> Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
> stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
>
Re: tag in docv11
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> Anyone mind if I add <acronym title="blah">blah</acronym> to
> document-v11.mod? It's quite handy on occasion.
>
> Attached is the diff.
no diff attached, but please go forward
must we go through the entire versioning thing then?
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org