You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org by ewitness - Ben Fowler <bf...@ewitness.co.uk> on 2002/02/05 12:08:48 UTC
Lock generated PDF was Re: Security on FOP
>>I have a question:
>>with FOP, Is possible to lock with a password
>>the PDF Document generated???
>
>No.
>
>[ snip ]
>You will have to do some post-processing with other software.
Is this something that is not implemented? Or something
that is thought to be not possible or not desirable?
My understanding is that is is possible to both digitally
sign and encrypt PDF files.
This is described in the 'ppk_pdfspec.pdf' downloadable.
Is it known that digital signing needs some form of authorit
not available to authors of FOP/Apache?
If so, it should surely be still possible to encrypt/lock
a document.
Ben.
Re: Lock generated PDF was Re: Security on FOP
Posted by Keiron Liddle <ke...@aftexsw.com>.
On 2002.02.05 16:15 ewitness - Ben Fowler wrote:
> Yes. I am not sure that I will get started full before the end of
> February, but I intend to contribute to
>
> 1. Java 1.1.8 version
> 2. keep-with
> 3. Encryption
Keeping jdk1.1 support is a hinderance to the development of FOP and as
such has been dropped. Since the code is available you can alter for you
own uses but there will be problems.
Encryption is the best place to start to get into FOP. You can concentrate
on a smaller section of the code and get to know some of the internals of
FOP. It should be fairly straight forward in terms of where to put the
code and how to integrate with other code. The feature itself may not be
easy but the is Adobes fault. Almost all the pdf code is in
org.apache.fop.pdf.* (should be all of it but alas). If you need help,
just yell.
The keep-with is about the redesign. Once you know something about the
internals of FOP you will need to know all about - xsl:fo and the layout
process.
> All of those are things that I potentially need.
Java 1.1.8 was Re: Lock generated PDF
Posted by ewitness - Ben Fowler <bf...@ewitness.co.uk>.
> > My 'platform' is a slot loading iMac.
>
>I guessed right then. :-) You could install MacOSX which has a decent
>JDK 1.3.1.
Apart from the fact that I would be making a leap of faith that
all else I want to do, would be effective (id est not too slow)
once I have OS X (note that it is quite hard to return to classic
Mac OS), it remains a goal for my project to run on systems
three years old. I feel that I should not force my customers
to upgrade.
> > It should be a general goal of Open Source projects to be backwards
>> compatible. My understanding is that it should be possible to
>> use a tool like ant to extract a Java 1.1 subset.
>
>Should it? To a certain extent, yes. But I think it would be best if
>Steve Jobs held his promise to fully support the Java2 platform even on
>his older systems.
You bet. I have to explain to people (or rather, explain away)
why there was phraseology on the front of the mac Java page
stating that the Mac was the best platform for developing java,
exempli gratia,
<URL: http://developer.apple.com/devnews/devnews082997.html >,
"... the Mac OS is the best platform for developing Java products".
This was so out of accord with reality, that I suspect that those
people thought I must be soft in the head for not being able to
work miracles with Java. No doubt, the Jobs RDF is so strong that
in Cupertino a dual G4 Powermac can finish an infinite loop in 7
and a half seconds allowing its users to grab the best seats for
Farmer MacGregor's Flying Circus.
My point is that however undesirable, it is understandable that
commercial organisations need to keep people upgrading. The
reverse should be the case for OS software In our case the only
issue is the cost of support, and since even niche products can
be made essentially self-supporting, there should be no artifical
limit established. Or do you look forward to a day when, say, vi
(which is well past its use by date) in the form of its popular
workalikes enter its EOL phase.
>I've found a notice in the ant documentation:
>"For the current version of Ant, you will also need a JDK installed on
>your system, version 1.1 or later. A future version of Ant will require
>JDK 1.2 or later."
Quite so. As time goes by more and more of the good stuff becomes
(in my experience) JDK 1.3 or better, and obviously each of us
will reach a point when we can no longer handle older platforms
or protocols. Metrowerks has recently, for example, stopped delivering
68k Assemblers and Pascal compilers with its Mac desktop products.
I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide what the
users of these tools felt about it.
Ben.
Re: Lock generated PDF
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <je...@outline.ch>.
> At 8:08 am +0100 6/2/02, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> >Last september it has been decided to drop JDK 1.1 support mostly out of
> >performance reasons. Almost every reasonable platform has a Java 2
> >implementation available today and there are not many projects left at
> >Apache Foundation that still support JDK 1.1.
>
> My 'platform' is a slot loading iMac.
I guessed right then. :-) You could install MacOSX which has a decent
JDK 1.3.1.
> It should be a general goal of Open Source projects to be backwards
> compatible. My understanding is that it should be possible to
> use a tool like ant to extract a Java 1.1 subset.
Should it? To a certain extent, yes. But I think it would be best if
Steve Jobs held his promise to fully support the Java2 platform even on
his older systems.
Have a look at the following link. JDK 1.1 is marked as End-Of-Life.
http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/1.1/download-jdk-windows.html
> I would like my product to support Mac and Windows systems from
> 1998 on, on the basis/functional specification that my product
> (of which FOP is only a part) should be installable and usable
> on all Macs of the same age or newer than mine, and Windows with
> a suitable version of Java installed. It is also my understanding
> that the latest version of Blackdown java is 1.1.8, exempli gratia
> <URL: http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/info.html >
Blackdown has several Java 2 ports. Sun provides a JDK 1.3.1 for Windows,
Linux and Solaris. IBM for Windows, Linux, AIX and OS/390 etc. MacOS 9
and earlier are some of the last OS that remain pre-Java2.
Other Java ports can be found here:
http://java.sun.com/cgi-bin/java-ports.cgi
> Of course I am not sure that ant runs on the classic MacOS, so
> I am dependant on my finding myself a linux machine to generate
> the sources. I will do this, I just don't have the technology at
> present. There again I am not certain that ant doesn't, as it is
> possible that one of the many projects called JShell, I think this
> one <URL: http://homepage.mac.com/pcbeard/JShell/ >, will run ant.
I've found a notice in the ant documentation:
"For the current version of Ant, you will also need a JDK installed on
your system, version 1.1 or later. A future version of Ant will require
JDK 1.2 or later."
Cheers,
Jeremias Märki
mailto:jeremias.maerki@outline.ch
OUTLINE AG
Postfach 3954 - Rhynauerstr. 15 - CH-6002 Luzern
Fon +41 41 317 20 20 - Fax +41 41 317 20 29
Internet http://www.outline.ch
Java 1.1.8 was Re: Lock generated PDF
Posted by ewitness - Ben Fowler <bf...@ewitness.co.uk>.
>On 02/06/02 5:00, "ewitness - Ben Fowler" <bf...@ewitness.co.uk> wrote:
> > It should be a general goal of Open Source projects to be backwards
>> compatible. My understanding is that it should be possible to
>> use a tool like ant to extract a Java 1.1 subset.
>It is possible but it means that you're trading features for compatibility.
>The things that come to mind the most are vectors and collections at this
>point... As Keiron Lidle mentioned in another message, the source is
>available. You can only be so backwards compatible.
Yes. I have had to remove a lot of the collections stuff, and the
whole of Batik (which is a nuisance, but if i have the facility
to import graphics, I would use it). Currenlty I have modified
(bent) the PDF Renderer to do what I want when I want it, which
makes my copy of the renderer useless to anybody else.
Though the two examples you gave are perhaps the most obvious, the
biggest problem was with 'java.awt.Dimension: method getHeight()'
et cetera.
Your other point is correct, I may need over the medium term
to arrange to extract what I need from the sources.
Ben.
Re: Lock generated PDF
Posted by Carlos Araya <ca...@cvc.edu>.
On 02/06/02 5:00, "ewitness - Ben Fowler" <bf...@ewitness.co.uk> wrote:
> At 8:08 am +0100 6/2/02, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>> Last september it has been decided to drop JDK 1.1 support mostly out of
>> performance reasons. Almost every reasonable platform has a Java 2
>> implementation available today and there are not many projects left at
>> Apache Foundation that still support JDK 1.1.
>
> My 'platform' is a slot loading iMac.
>
> It should be a general goal of Open Source projects to be backwards
> compatible. My understanding is that it should be possible to
> use a tool like ant to extract a Java 1.1 subset.
It is possible but it means that you're trading features for compatibility.
The things that come to mind the most are vectors and collections at this
point... As Keiron Lidle mentioned in another message, the source is
available. You can only be so backwards compatible.
>
> I would like my product to support Mac and Windows systems from
> 1998 on, on the basis/functional specification that my product
> (of which FOP is only a part) should be installable and usable
> on all Macs of the same age or newer than mine, and Windows with
> a suitable version of Java installed. It is also my understanding
> that the latest version of Blackdown java is 1.1.8, exempli gratia
> <URL: http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/info.html >
Blackdown released a 1.2.2 version and a 1.3.0 version. If that won't work
then you can get to the Sun page and download anything from 1.2 onwards. I
understand the issues with Apple's MRJ but that shouldn't be a limiting
factor for development.
>
> Of course I am not sure that ant runs on the classic MacOS, so
> I am dependant on my finding myself a linux machine to generate
> the sources. I will do this, I just don't have the technology at
> present. There again I am not certain that ant doesn't, as it is
> possible that one of the many projects called JShell, I think this
> one <URL: http://homepage.mac.com/pcbeard/JShell/ >, will run ant.
According to the Jshell page it does come with Ant included, YaY!!!!
>
>
>>> 2. keep-with
>>
>> That's probably something that has to be adressed in the redesign
>> because as far as I can remember this was one of the reasons the
>> redesign was started in the first place. I'm sure you can help in that
>> corner.
>
> I am listening out for any info on this, but it seems that this
> redesign is something that only the inner circle can do...
The inner circle is always open to proposals and contributions.
>
> Ben.
--
Carlos E. Araya
---+ WebCT Administrator/Trainer
P | California Virtual Campus
- | C/O De Anza College
G | 21250 Stevens Creek Blvd
---+ Cupertino, CA 95014
email carlos@cvc.edu
web http://www.cvc1.org/ (work)
http://www.silverwolf-net.net (personal)
phone 408 257 0420 (work)
PGP Fingerprint: E629 5DFD 7EAE 4995 E9D7 3D2F 5A9F 0CE7 DFE7 1756
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons....for you are crunchy and taste
good with ketchup and mayonnaise.."
Re: Lock generated PDF
Posted by ewitness - Ben Fowler <bf...@ewitness.co.uk>.
At 8:08 am +0100 6/2/02, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>Last september it has been decided to drop JDK 1.1 support mostly out of
>performance reasons. Almost every reasonable platform has a Java 2
>implementation available today and there are not many projects left at
>Apache Foundation that still support JDK 1.1.
My 'platform' is a slot loading iMac.
It should be a general goal of Open Source projects to be backwards
compatible. My understanding is that it should be possible to
use a tool like ant to extract a Java 1.1 subset.
I would like my product to support Mac and Windows systems from
1998 on, on the basis/functional specification that my product
(of which FOP is only a part) should be installable and usable
on all Macs of the same age or newer than mine, and Windows with
a suitable version of Java installed. It is also my understanding
that the latest version of Blackdown java is 1.1.8, exempli gratia
<URL: http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/info.html >
Of course I am not sure that ant runs on the classic MacOS, so
I am dependant on my finding myself a linux machine to generate
the sources. I will do this, I just don't have the technology at
present. There again I am not certain that ant doesn't, as it is
possible that one of the many projects called JShell, I think this
one <URL: http://homepage.mac.com/pcbeard/JShell/ >, will run ant.
> > 2. keep-with
>
>That's probably something that has to be adressed in the redesign
>because as far as I can remember this was one of the reasons the
>redesign was started in the first place. I'm sure you can help in that
>corner.
I am listening out for any info on this, but it seems that this
redesign is something that only the inner circle can do...
Ben.
Re: Lock generated PDF was Re: Security on FOP
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <je...@outline.ch>.
<snip/>
> >Do I hear you volunteering to write the code to do it?
> Yes. I am not sure that I will get started full before the end of
> February, but I intend to contribute to
Cool.
> 1. Java 1.1.8 version
Last september it has been decided to drop JDK 1.1 support mostly out of
performance reasons. Almost every reasonable platform has a Java 2
implementation available today and there are not many projects left at
Apache Foundation that still support JDK 1.1.
> 2. keep-with
That's probably something that has to be adressed in the redesign
because as far as I can remember this was one of the reasons the
redesign was started in the first place. I'm sure you can help in that
corner.
> 3. Encryption
Quite a few people have asked for this in the past so this may really be
a good thing to do even if it does not directly relate to XSL:FO.
> All of those are things that I potentially need.
Cheers,
Jeremias Märki
mailto:jeremias.maerki@outline.ch
OUTLINE AG
Postfach 3954 - Rhynauerstr. 15 - CH-6002 Luzern
Fon +41 (41) 317 2020 - Fax +41 (41) 317 2029
Internet http://www.outline.ch
Re: Lock generated PDF was Re: Security on FOP
Posted by ewitness - Ben Fowler <bf...@ewitness.co.uk>.
At 6:08 am -0800 5/2/02, Carlos Araya wrote:
>On 02/05/02 3:08, "ewitness - Ben Fowler" <bf...@ewitness.co.uk> wrote:
> > My understanding is that is is possible to both digitally
>> sign and encrypt PDF files.
>Using Acrobat you can do that and a lot more. However I don't think that's
>what Fop was designed for. You can always use Acrobat to polish a document
>produced with Fop.
If it is outside the design domain for FOP, then we ought
not to spend too much time on it.
See below. I am actually quite keen to use a fully automated
system, dispensing with the need for Acrobat, and actually locking
the documnent (output from a database) against its author, as in
non-repudiation.
> > This is described in the 'ppk_pdfspec.pdf' downloadable.
>The fact that it is on the spec doesn't mean that it has to be implemented
>by Fop. Before worrying about encryption and digital signatures, Fop needs
>to achieve full conformance to the basic FO specification. Remember, Fop
>deals primarily with XSL:Fo and PDF is only one of the output methods.
Fair enough, but if it is in an open spec. It is likely
possible, which is what the OP was asking.
I do of course agree that conformance, possibly full conformance
to FO should be achieved before concentrating on minutiae
such as this, which are probably only of interest to a minority.
Standards conformance is in the interests of all.
I think, though, that it is also true that the majority
of people here have a greater interest in PDF than any other
application of FOP. Furthermore there is already a high
quality FO -> TeX pathway, so I don't think that people
would be inconvienced by an effort to 'polish' the PDF
arm of this project.
> > If so, it should surely be still possible to encrypt/lock
>> a document.
>Do I hear you volunteering to write the code to do it?
Yes. I am not sure that I will get started full before the end of
February, but I intend to contribute to
1. Java 1.1.8 version
2. keep-with
3. Encryption
All of those are things that I potentially need.
Ben.
Re: Lock generated PDF was Re: Security on FOP
Posted by Carlos Araya <ca...@cvc.edu>.
On 02/05/02 3:08, "ewitness - Ben Fowler" <bf...@ewitness.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I have a question:
>>> with FOP, Is possible to lock with a password
>>> the PDF Document generated???
>>
>> No.
>>
>> [ snip ]
>> You will have to do some post-processing with other software.
>
> Is this something that is not implemented? Or something
> that is thought to be not possible or not desirable?
As far as I know it's something that is beyond the capabilities of FOP and
something that should stay there.
>
> My understanding is that is is possible to both digitally
> sign and encrypt PDF files.
Using Acrobat you can do that and a lot more. However I don't think that's
what Fop was designed for. You can always use Acrobat to polish a document
produced with Fop.
>
> This is described in the 'ppk_pdfspec.pdf' downloadable.
The fact that it is on the spec doesn't mean that it has to be implemented
by Fop. Before worrying about encryption and digital signatures, Fop needs
to achieve full conformance to the basic FO specification. Remember, Fop
deals primarily with XSL:Fo and PDF is only one of the output methods.
>
> Is it known that digital signing needs some form of authorit
> not available to authors of FOP/Apache?
No. If I understand it correctly you can sign your documents with any
public/private key pair. Any cryptographic code may be subject to export
restrictions from the US and maybe other restrictions from other countries
>
> If so, it should surely be still possible to encrypt/lock
> a document.
Do I hear you volunteering to write the code to do it?
>
> Ben.
--
Carlos E. Araya
---+ WebCT Administrator/Trainer
P | California Virtual Campus
- | C/O De Anza College
G | 21250 Stevens Creek Blvd
---+ Cupertino, CA 95014
email carlos@cvc.edu
web http://www.cvc1.org/ (work)
http://www.silverwolf-net.net (personal)
phone 408 257 0420 (work)
PGP Fingerprint: E629 5DFD 7EAE 4995 E9D7 3D2F 5A9F 0CE7 DFE7 1756
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons....for you are crunchy and taste
good with ketchup and mayonnaise.."