Antwort: Re: Antwort: Vhosts docs

[Mi...@telekurs.com]

Hi Rich,


> I've read your note a few times, and I think I may still be
> missing what you're getting at here. I'm not clear what you
> are recommending actually go into this part of the docs to
> address your "first experience" with vhosts.
> It is specifically folks' first experience with vhosts that
> we want to make better. However, most of what you seem to be
> talking about is running Apache without any vhosts at all.
> What am I missing? How does this have anything to do with
> the doc that we are working on here?

I believe that people don't use features because they
are there, but because they need them.

People don't need Virtual Hosts - they need "several
web servers on one machine".
Or at least they believe they need this, unless they
are told that Virtual Hosts will supply exactly this
feature.

IMHO there is no need mentioning IP addresses or port
numbers this early.
There may be a lot of other things one can do with
Virtual Hosts, but the most important thing in my eyes
is that you can access different DNS names on one
machine via HTTP. You will need IP address knowledge
to really make it work (because one has to map the
DNS name to some IP adress), but not yet for under-
standing what Virtual Hosts are good for.

I agree that for using Apache professionally people
should have enough networking knowledge to be able to
understand about IP adresses and ports.
But since Apache is available and stable under Win32
it can (and should) serve as a development platform
for everyone's little CGI scripts before they are
uploaded to their web space. You don't need a web
server to create HTML pages but you do need one for
CGI and SSI testing.
And these users might want to have a Virtual Host to
'mirror' their online web space, and other Virtual
Hosts for other purposes (like the Apache docs, which
again will need a web server because of MultiViews
required). But they still don't need to understand
a lot about networking.


Greetings, Michael



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Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Vhosts docs

[Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>]

On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 Michael.Schroepl@telekurs.com wrote:

>
> Hi Rich,
>
> I believe that people don't use features because they
> are there, but because they need them.

The features are there because people need them. This seems like a
rather strange distinction to make, but I *think* I follow what you are
saying.

> People don't need Virtual Hosts - they need "several
> web servers on one machine".

There is a real value to technical terms. The correctly-used technical
term saves pages of explanation, and there is a distinct value in
teaching people to use the right words for the right concepts.

> Or at least they believe they need this, unless they
> are told that Virtual Hosts will supply exactly this
> feature.
>
> IMHO there is no need mentioning IP addresses or port
> numbers this early.

How about if I make the IP address phrase parenthetical? I am very
averse to "dumbing down" the docs. Yes, they should be accessible to the
beginner, but not to the point where they become useless to the advanced
user.

> There may be a lot of other things one can do with
> Virtual Hosts, but the most important thing in my eyes
> is that you can access different DNS names on one
> machine via HTTP. You will need IP address knowledge
> to really make it work (because one has to map the
> DNS name to some IP adress), but not yet for under-
> standing what Virtual Hosts are good for.

Hmm. I'm not really sure if I agree. Primarily because of the fact that
people seem to think that if they add a vhost, it will magically make
DNS resolve that name to their server. These are the same folks who also
think that if they add a vhost for cnn.com they will suddenly hijack all
traffic from that site. It *is* important that they have at least a
smidgen of networking knowledge, even to understand *basic* name-based
vhosts. In my first example, I try to keep it at what I perceive to be
the barest minimum.

Additionally, I *frequently* get asked why the vhost docs don't contain
more about DNS configuration (standard answer: a) this is the Apache
doc, not a DNS doc and 2) Which DNS server should I document here?) And
folks want to have something here about the format of /etc/hosts files.
I don't think that there is any way to make everyone happy, but it's a
noble goal.

-- 
Who can say where the road goes
Where the day flows
Only time
 --Pilgrim (Enya - A Day Without Rain)


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