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Posted to users@wicket.apache.org by Patrick Labonte <pa...@googlemail.com> on 2007/09/25 11:17:12 UTC
Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Hello,
at the moment I'm writing my diploma-thesis. The project I'm working
on is for a big company in germany and consists of porting a
Rich-Client-Java-Application to a web-based Application. It should
make heavy use of AJAX-Components, because it should behave like the
Rich-Client. If the experiences with the prototype turn out
satisfactory, the complete application may be ported and maybe other
applications will follow.
At the moment I'm thinking about the architecture: From the
Rich-Client I will reuse Spring, Hibernate and the Business-Objects,
but I'm not sure which Web-Framework to choose from.
I have used JSF in former projects and were not happy with it (the
Web-Designer thought about committing suicide ;)
Well for my thesis I have to give reasons, why I have chosen a
specific technology and I have to convince some people, because they
have hopes to raise some new projects out of the result of my project.
They know about the JSF-Hype, but they don't know about Wicket. I have
heared about it 2 weeks ago the first time.
I'm doing a comparison between JSF and Wicket. I figured out a lot of
disadvantages on JSF-Side, but I have no experience on Wicket-Side and
it's disadvantages. I found out that JBoss Seam fixes some bad JSF
issues.
One guy in my department likes the Google Web Toolkit and is writing a
book about it. I'll give it a try. It's a bit like Wicket from the
programming style, but it needs a separate compiler and I haven't got
a backend solution. I have red that it's possible to use GWT with
Wicket. How far is this grown?
I fear about a lack of AJAX-Wicket components, because I have seen
only few components. I hope someone has experience with similar
projects and can give me a few helpful advices.
Thanks very much.
Patrick
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com>.
One of the requirements here is to support old browsers and browsers with JS
disabled...
I'd have liked to have a go at using the gwt html project even though it is
very, very new but that was seen as way too scary.
John Krasnay wrote:
>
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 03:07:21AM -0700, Sam Hough wrote:
>>
>> Taking as a basic assumption that the reason we want GWT or Wicket is to
>> do
>> almost all our logic in Java and Wicket is in full Ajax mode:
>>
>> 1) In GWT a lot of the UI logic can be moved to the client. e.g. If a
>> user
>> changes focus GWT can call event handlers, authored in Java, that update
>> the
>> UI without any server interaction.
>> 2) Wicket Ajax is single threaded (Sjax) so the user can't fire off more
>> than one server request at a time. In GWT you could have two server
>> threads
>> working for a user. One that could be slow but not block the UI.
>> 3) GWT has less work to do because it doesn't need to map events on the
>> client to the server. It stays in the DOM so just attaches event handlers
>> without having to map them to/from the server.
>> 4) Rendering the UI is all done on the client so your server requirements
>> are much lower.
>>
>
> Wow, GWT sure sounds great! Why are you still using Wicket?
>
> jk
>
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by John Krasnay <jo...@krasnay.ca>.
On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 03:07:21AM -0700, Sam Hough wrote:
>
> Taking as a basic assumption that the reason we want GWT or Wicket is to do
> almost all our logic in Java and Wicket is in full Ajax mode:
>
> 1) In GWT a lot of the UI logic can be moved to the client. e.g. If a user
> changes focus GWT can call event handlers, authored in Java, that update the
> UI without any server interaction.
> 2) Wicket Ajax is single threaded (Sjax) so the user can't fire off more
> than one server request at a time. In GWT you could have two server threads
> working for a user. One that could be slow but not block the UI.
> 3) GWT has less work to do because it doesn't need to map events on the
> client to the server. It stays in the DOM so just attaches event handlers
> without having to map them to/from the server.
> 4) Rendering the UI is all done on the client so your server requirements
> are much lower.
>
Wow, GWT sure sounds great! Why are you still using Wicket?
jk
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com>.
Taking as a basic assumption that the reason we want GWT or Wicket is to do
almost all our logic in Java and Wicket is in full Ajax mode:
1) In GWT a lot of the UI logic can be moved to the client. e.g. If a user
changes focus GWT can call event handlers, authored in Java, that update the
UI without any server interaction.
2) Wicket Ajax is single threaded (Sjax) so the user can't fire off more
than one server request at a time. In GWT you could have two server threads
working for a user. One that could be slow but not block the UI.
3) GWT has less work to do because it doesn't need to map events on the
client to the server. It stays in the DOM so just attaches event handlers
without having to map them to/from the server.
4) Rendering the UI is all done on the client so your server requirements
are much lower.
Martijn Dashorst wrote:
>
> On 9/25/07, Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com> wrote:
>> You will get a much more responsive application with GWT than you will
>> ever get with
>> Wicket.
>
> Care to elaborate on that please? As far as I know, GWT uses HTTP,
> just as Wicket. I *REALLY* don't see how that gives GWT an advantage
> in responsiveness.
>
> Martijn
>
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 9/25/07, Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com> wrote:
> You will get a much more responsive application with GWT than you will ever get with
> Wicket.
Care to elaborate on that please? As far as I know, GWT uses HTTP,
just as Wicket. I *REALLY* don't see how that gives GWT an advantage
in responsiveness.
Martijn
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com>.
I wouldn't go for Wicket _and_ GWT. The server side could stay the same with
GWT. The big change would be that GWT would make remote calls to it...
If you need to support low end browsers then go for Wicket. If you don't go
for GWT.
Apart from no-javascript support the only other big problem is no Java 1.5
yet. Apart from those reservations it is a much better way to go. You will
get a much more responsive application with GWT than you will ever get with
Wicket.
Patrick Labonte wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> at the moment I'm writing my diploma-thesis. The project I'm working
> on is for a big company in germany and consists of porting a
> Rich-Client-Java-Application to a web-based Application. It should
> make heavy use of AJAX-Components, because it should behave like the
> Rich-Client. If the experiences with the prototype turn out
> satisfactory, the complete application may be ported and maybe other
> applications will follow.
>
> At the moment I'm thinking about the architecture: From the
> Rich-Client I will reuse Spring, Hibernate and the Business-Objects,
> but I'm not sure which Web-Framework to choose from.
> I have used JSF in former projects and were not happy with it (the
> Web-Designer thought about committing suicide ;)
> Well for my thesis I have to give reasons, why I have chosen a
> specific technology and I have to convince some people, because they
> have hopes to raise some new projects out of the result of my project.
> They know about the JSF-Hype, but they don't know about Wicket. I have
> heared about it 2 weeks ago the first time.
> I'm doing a comparison between JSF and Wicket. I figured out a lot of
> disadvantages on JSF-Side, but I have no experience on Wicket-Side and
> it's disadvantages. I found out that JBoss Seam fixes some bad JSF
> issues.
> One guy in my department likes the Google Web Toolkit and is writing a
> book about it. I'll give it a try. It's a bit like Wicket from the
> programming style, but it needs a separate compiler and I haven't got
> a backend solution. I have red that it's possible to use GWT with
> Wicket. How far is this grown?
> I fear about a lack of AJAX-Wicket components, because I have seen
> only few components. I hope someone has experience with similar
> projects and can give me a few helpful advices.
>
> Thanks very much.
> Patrick
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by David Bernard <dw...@free.fr>.
Hi,
A list of url, that could help you...
About Wicket vs JSF, there is some articles :
* http://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2007/05/14/a-wicket-user-tries-jsf/ (from the author of JTrac)
* a list of articles : http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html
About widgets :
* take a look to
* wicket-extensions :
* wicketstuff (provide some way to integrate with third party js lib) :
* a main difference with JSF and why I switch, it's the easier way to create custom component (see the documentation, wiki, slides).
About GWT :
Sorry I can't help you, :-(. I didn't choose it when I start my current project, because it was too younger (no validation, need to implement ISerializable, bad maven integration,... lot of things
that seems to be fixed now).
/david
Patrick Labonte wrote:
> Hello,
>
> at the moment I'm writing my diploma-thesis. The project I'm working
> on is for a big company in germany and consists of porting a
> Rich-Client-Java-Application to a web-based Application. It should
> make heavy use of AJAX-Components, because it should behave like the
> Rich-Client. If the experiences with the prototype turn out
> satisfactory, the complete application may be ported and maybe other
> applications will follow.
>
> At the moment I'm thinking about the architecture: From the
> Rich-Client I will reuse Spring, Hibernate and the Business-Objects,
> but I'm not sure which Web-Framework to choose from.
> I have used JSF in former projects and were not happy with it (the
> Web-Designer thought about committing suicide ;)
> Well for my thesis I have to give reasons, why I have chosen a
> specific technology and I have to convince some people, because they
> have hopes to raise some new projects out of the result of my project.
> They know about the JSF-Hype, but they don't know about Wicket. I have
> heared about it 2 weeks ago the first time.
> I'm doing a comparison between JSF and Wicket. I figured out a lot of
> disadvantages on JSF-Side, but I have no experience on Wicket-Side and
> it's disadvantages. I found out that JBoss Seam fixes some bad JSF
> issues.
> One guy in my department likes the Google Web Toolkit and is writing a
> book about it. I'll give it a try. It's a bit like Wicket from the
> programming style, but it needs a separate compiler and I haven't got
> a backend solution. I have red that it's possible to use GWT with
> Wicket. How far is this grown?
> I fear about a lack of AJAX-Wicket components, because I have seen
> only few components. I hope someone has experience with similar
> projects and can give me a few helpful advices.
>
> Thanks very much.
> Patrick
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
> Obviously lots of pros and cons for both that have not been mentioned so
> far.
Yup, lots of those. Another one is that GWT works with layout managers
and Wicket directly with HTML. Anyway, I think there are other threads
in the archives that do a more complete comparison.
Eelco
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com>.
Is the browser not a client in Wicket? You have to slice things differently.
I agree that using GWT will mean more thought has to go into interaction
with the middle tier but that just means some of your code stays on the
server in some simple facade. It wouldn't be one of my worries in using GWT.
In Wicket or GWT when the user clicks something you have to marshall the
same data for both. If Wicket uses a remote middle tier (including DB) very
similar issues will crop up.
We have found the need to make some of our model serializable to make
working with Wicket nice.
Obviously lots of pros and cons for both that have not been mentioned so
far.
igor.vaynberg wrote:
>
> how about another tiny limitation which is the programming model. gwt is
> essentially client+server so you cannot use hibernate lazy loading, you
> cannot use data locality to your advantage either. you have to serialize
> all
> your data so you can only use simple objects to communicate between your
> server and ui.
>
> but those are not at all important are they?
>
> -igor
>
>
> On 9/25/07, Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Another big GWT limitation is that you have a very small subset of java
>> runtime to write your UI in. Lots of your favourite things are probably
>> missing.
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>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
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>
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Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
how about another tiny limitation which is the programming model. gwt is
essentially client+server so you cannot use hibernate lazy loading, you
cannot use data locality to your advantage either. you have to serialize all
your data so you can only use simple objects to communicate between your
server and ui.
but those are not at all important are they?
-igor
On 9/25/07, Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Another big GWT limitation is that you have a very small subset of java
> runtime to write your UI in. Lots of your favourite things are probably
> missing.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Questions-about-GWT%2C-JSF-and-Wicket-tf4514338.html#a12879789
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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>
Re: Questions about GWT, JSF and Wicket
Posted by Sam Hough <sa...@redspr.com>.
Another big GWT limitation is that you have a very small subset of java
runtime to write your UI in. Lots of your favourite things are probably
missing.
--
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