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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by "Adam Fuchs (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2011/09/20 21:46:08 UTC
[jira] [Created] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the National
Security Agency
Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
------------------------------------------------------
Key: LEGAL-100
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
Project: Legal Discuss
Issue Type: Question
Reporter: Adam Fuchs
In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
...
"You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
entity.
...
2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
...
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Lawrence Rosen (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13117553#comment-13117553 ]
Lawrence Rosen commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
> Doug Cutting commented on LEGAL-100:
> Sam, Larry: any thoughts about this?
I do not believe the changes to the CCLA are needed nor advisable.
> The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and
> "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and
> a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright
> exists.
We do not need permissions from "the owners of contributions not subject to copyright." Indeed, they are not copyright owners. What does NSA believe they are the owners of?
A copyright license is already limited to material for which copyright exist; nothing else needs a license. Please stop asking us to acknowledge that we can use what is free for the taking.
If NSA wants to establish a broader relationship with Apache than the CCLA calls for, please let us know what that is. Otherwise, we just need a license to whatever copyrights they actually own, and the existing CCLA is perfectly adequate for that.
/Larry
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Closed] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the National
Security Agency
Posted by "Sam Ruby (Closed) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Sam Ruby closed LEGAL-100.
--------------------------
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
> Assignee: Sam Ruby
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Billie Rinaldi (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13117836#comment-13117836 ]
Billie Rinaldi commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
As I understand it, NSA does not believe it is legally able to sign the Apache CCLA. What we are trying to address is future public domain works of government employees. While the government does not hold copyright for such works, it could hold patents for such works. NSA wants to be able to grant Apache a patent license without implying that copyright exists on the material. Perhaps the patent license would be unnecessary until such time as NSA actually held or applied for a patent on the relevant material? Would it then be possible for government employees to be Apache committers without a CCLA from their employer? Or could we add the proposed unacceptable modifications to the CCLA in some acceptable way that doesn't involve changing the main text (e.g. in Schedule A or B)? Does anyone have other suggestions?
Billie
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Adam Fuchs (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13126922#comment-13126922 ]
Adam Fuchs commented on LEGAL-100:
----------------------------------
The NSA General Counsel has decided that because everybody involved understands the implications of part of the work being in the public domain, NSA can sign the original CCLA. I just faxed over a signed copy to the ASF secretary. If this is acceptable to everyone, then we can put this question to rest (and start joining in the fun).
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Lawrence Rosen (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13126823#comment-13126823 ]
Lawrence Rosen commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
David Wheeler wrote:
> The CCLA is not just a copyright license. There are lots of reasons that a
> government work cannot be included in Apache, not just copyright.
Please explain this. What other reasons?
We accept any copyrights you want to give us. We accept patent licenses. We don't care about your trademarks and will probably choose our own. And as for trade secrets, as long as you keep them secret we won't pry. What else is keeping government employees, and the agencies they work for, from signing CLAs and joining in the fun?
/Larry
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "David A. Wheeler (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13126634#comment-13126634 ]
David A. Wheeler commented on LEGAL-100:
----------------------------------------
Quick addition - the CCLA and ICLA may actually be fine for Crown copyrights, I just don't know and I think that should be checked at the same time. Crown copyrights are a feature of Commonwealth nation laws, and I only about US law. But I note that the IEEE, at least, has special text for Crown copyrights. So you may as well make sure that the CCLA and ICLA work with Crown copyright too. I know that US government and Crown copyright are the two "special cases" that many organizations (like standards bodies and journals) have special text for, as part of their contribution agreements.
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Benson Margulies (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13117587#comment-13117587 ]
Benson Margulies commented on LEGAL-100:
----------------------------------------
Larry,
I think that, after a fashion, you started this, and now indeed they can sign the regular agreement and be done.
The inception of this was the thread on legal-discuss where you, if I remember aright, were some emphatic on the desire to have a CRADA or *something* to indicate a cooperative intention with respect to the un-copyrighted material. A CRADA is a giant PITA, so the gang came up with the CCLA mods in an effort to meet you half-way. If you (and Sam?) are content to take the usual CCLA for the stuff with copyright and accept good-faith commits from the committers with respect to the other stuff, then my belief is that we'll be good to go.
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Lawrence Rosen (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13126943#comment-13126943 ]
Lawrence Rosen commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
Thanks to everyone for making this happen!!!! /Larry
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "David A. Wheeler (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13127201#comment-13127201 ]
David A. Wheeler commented on LEGAL-100:
----------------------------------------
Thanks to all for making this happen! For NSA, this issue is put to rest, and I am delighted.
I'd still like to see tweaks to the CCLA so that future government contributions (when development is by government employees) will be much easier to make.
>> The CCLA is not just a copyright license. There are lots of reasons that a government work cannot be included in Apache, not just copyright.
> Please explain this. What other reasons? We accept any copyrights you want to give us. We accept patent licenses. We don't care about your trademarks and will probably choose our own. And as for trade secrets, as long as you keep them secret we won't pry. What else is keeping government employees, and the agencies they work for, from signing CLAs and joining in the fun?
Let me answer that backwards.
As far as "keeping government employees from signing CLAs", the problem is that the CLAs, as written, seem to require that there *be* a copyright. Since in some cases there may not be a copyright, there seems to be a bar to signing them. NSA has chosen to accept this in this case, and that's good news.
As far as "other reasons", those include patents, trade secrets, classification, trademarks, government seal, export controls (Commerce and State), and embargoes at the least. There are probably other reasons. Yes, the government can release software without signing a CLA - it just has to decide to release it, and do so. But I presume that Apache asks people to sign CLAs, at least in part, to help calm the fears of later users and contributors. If government people believe they can't sign the CLA, yet Apache requires that signature, then that's a problem. I hope that answers the question!
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
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[jira] [Assigned] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Sam Ruby (Assigned) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Sam Ruby reassigned LEGAL-100:
------------------------------
Assignee: Sam Ruby
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
> Assignee: Sam Ruby
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Lawrence Rosen (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13117842#comment-13117842 ]
Lawrence Rosen commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
> While the government does not hold
> copyright for such works, it could hold patents for such works. NSA
> wants to be able to grant Apache a patent license without implying that
> copyright exists on the material.
The CCLA does that. It doesn't require that a contribution be copyrighted before a patent license is granted for that contribution.
> Perhaps the patent license would be
> unnecessary until such time as NSA actually held or applied for a
> patent on the relevant material?
The CCLA doesn't require that there actually be patent claims at stake. The patent grant would be nugatory until NSA actually held relevant patents.
> Would it then be possible for
> government employees to be Apache committers without a CCLA from their
> employer?
I suppose they can be individual contributors under an ICLA, but then the government might have some issues controlling their activities at Apache.
> Or could we add the proposed unacceptable modifications to
> the CCLA in some acceptable way that doesn't involve changing the main
> text (e.g. in Schedule A or B)?
It is either a modification or it is not. We don't play subtle games with our CLAs just to fool folks into thinking it isn't changed..
I'm sorry, I still don't understand what *real* problem NSA is trying to solve by revising our CCLA. May I be so bold as to suggest that the government lawyers you are talking to don't understand copyright and patent licensing or the public domain in the context of open source. I'll be glad to speak directly with whatever government attorney is suffering from licensing heartburn. The CCLA is fine as it is for the purposes NSA intends.
If any lawyer on this list disagrees with me, now would be a great time to speak up.
/Larry
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "David A. Wheeler (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13126618#comment-13126618 ]
David A. Wheeler commented on LEGAL-100:
----------------------------------------
I completely agree that the Apache CCLA needs to be modified to allow contributions by governments (at least the U.S. and Crown copyrights). In fact, the ICLA has the same defect. I suggest rewording them using existing agreements of other organizations as a guide, with help from the contributors. Only a small change is needed, and the result should be simple and clear.
This kind of text, acknowledging that contributors need not have the copyright, is *normal* in journals and standards bodies, and its omission in Apache's CCLA (and ICLA) is a problem that needs fixing. For example, look at the IEEE contribution form (http://www.ieee.org/publications_standards/publications/rights/copyright_form.html) which says: "The undersigned hereby assigns to ...IEEE... all rights under copyright that may exist... U.S. Government employee certification (where applicable).... This will certify that all authors of the Work are U.S. government employees and prepared the Work on a subject within the scope of their official duties. As such, the Work is not subject to U.S. copyright protection." Notice that this contribution agreement is specifically worded to account for this. You'll find this kind of text is really common in organizations that take contributions from governments. It's a mistake that Apache's agreements do not, but it's a mistake that is easily corrected.
I don't think the proposed wording is correct, though. First of all, you don't have to be a copyright holder to have the right to make this agreement. For example, the government often isn't the copyright holder, but has the same rights as a copyright holder, and that's what matters. The proposed "2. Grant of Copyright License..." looks okay, but I'd change the the definition of "You" to simply say:
"You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright holder or a legal entity authorized to make this Agreement with the Foundation.
You should probably change "Corporation" to "Corporation or Government" too.
I've written a journal article about the legal rules when the U.S. government wants to release open source software that it developed:
http://journal.thedacs.com/issue/56/180 (see especially "case A").
Asking "who holds the copyright" is often the wrong question, as I discuss here: http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/ask-not-holds-copyright.html
The key thing here is that when U.S. government employees develops software as part of their official duties, the result cannot (normally) be copyrighted in the US at all, per 17 USC 105. This doesn't apply to software developed by contractors.
There are lots of comments on this topic; please allow me to reply to a few.
> We do not need permissions from "the owners of contributions not subject to copyright." Indeed, they are not copyright owners. What does NSA believe they are the owners of?
I agree that the proposed text is not well-worded. I hope that my comments above help fix it.
> A copyright license is already limited to material for which copyright exist; nothing else needs a license. Please stop asking us to acknowledge that we can use what is free for the taking.
The CCLA is not just a copyright license. There are lots of reasons that a government work cannot be included in Apache, not just copyright. If Apache wants to abandon the CCLA entirely, that is Apache's choice, but if Apache asserts that "everyone must sign the CCLA" then the CCLA needs to be written in a way that allows everyone to sign it.
> The CCLA does that. It doesn't require that a contribution be copyrighted before a patent license is granted for that contribution.
I don't see how you can support that interpretation. The text in http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt says:
" 'You' (or 'Your') shall mean the copyright owner or legal entity authorized by the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation." Since there is no copyright holder in the US, by definition there is no one who can be referred to as "you", so the whole agreement cannot apply (because it's an agreement with "you").
> If NSA wants to establish a broader relationship with Apache than the CCLA calls for, please let us know what that is. Otherwise, we just need a license to whatever copyrights they actually own, and the existing CCLA is perfectly adequate for that.
The problem is that the CCLA text requires that there is a copyright holder (it's embedded in the definition of "you"), and there is none.
> Benson, I agree that a CRADA is a giant PITA, but it is also a way for a government agency to define the level of cooperative participation it expects to play in an Apache PMC. It is a way for a government agency to describe process *other than copyright licensing*, although statements of its commitment to (e.g., Apache's) particular licensing model belongs in a CRADA also. My understanding of CRADA documents is limited to one with the Dept. of Defense that took far more time for the government lawyers to write up than it took to implement. But the government operates by its own rules, and I'd encourage them to ask their own lawyers what to do in this case.
There is no law that requires that a CRADA be used for this purpose. A CRADA like an aircraft carrier: When you need it, you need it, but it's expensive to use. There's no need for a CRADA here. The US government is just asking for the same kind of text that other standards bodies have.
>> Perhaps the patent license would be unnecessary until such time as NSA actually held or applied for a patent on the relevant material?
>The CCLA doesn't require that there actually be patent claims at stake. The patent grant would be nugatory until NSA actually held relevant patents.
Sure, but the NSA can't sign the CCLA as it is currently written for this particular package. They could sign it if contractors had written the code, but they can't in this case.
> I'm sorry, I still don't understand what *real* problem NSA is trying to solve by revising our CCLA. May I be so bold as to suggest that the government lawyers you are talking to don't understand copyright and patent licensing or the public domain in the context of open source.
That certainly happens, but I don't think that's the problem in this case.
> I'll be glad to speak directly with whatever government attorney is suffering from licensing heartburn. The CCLA is fine as it is for the purposes NSA intends.
No, the CCLA is absolutely NOT okay in this case. As I quoted above, the CCLA *requires* that there is a copyright holder. It is not optional, because the existence of a copyright holder is baked into the definition of 'you' in particular. But in this case, because only government employees wrote the code, as part of their official duites, there is no copyright holder (in the US at least). So either Apache (1) waives the CCLA for these cases, (2) creates a special CCLA-like document for government contributions, or it fixes the CCLA.
> In order to encourage government employee committers to work within Apache, I welcome them to sign ICLAs. Why not?
Because the ICLA has exactly the same defect. The ICLA (http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt) says, " 'You' (or 'Your') shall mean the copyright owner or legal entity authorized by the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation." Since there is no copyright holder, there is no "you" or "your" to refer to.
> As for receiving contributions that are in the public domain: What law prevents us from just taking them?
If the government has itself released the software without it being copyrighted, then Apache can just use it. But in that case, Apache needs to state that Apache will NOT require CCLA or ICLA signatures for code that is not copyrighted in its country of origin. It's just Apache's house rules that require contributors to sign the CCLA or ICLA. But if Apache wants people to sign the CCLA or ICLA, then contributors must be able to honestly sign it.
> Or more appropriately, perhaps, filing a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) demand for their production.
That does not necessarily work. I can give you more details offline if you like, but that is a long discussion that is tangent to this one.
> Nor do I want my government to avoid working with us because they don't know how to give us something we already co-own.
The term "ownership" is actually really misleading. Apache doesn't own the software produced by government employees as part of their official duties! I'd suggest changing "copyright owner" to "copyright holder" (because you HOLD right, not OWN rights), and so on. That's not required to make this work, but if you're going to make changes anyway, it may as well get clearer. See: http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/intellectual-rights-not-intellectual-property.html
> The reason I suggested a CRADA previously is that these agreements are designed for *cooperative* research and development. If NSA or any other government agency wants to work with us, with either a written CRADA or an implied one, Apache should accept that cooperation gratefully.
If the government wants to set up a CRADA, sure. But that's suggesting the use of an aircraft carrier, when a one-page letter will do. CRADAs are NOT easy things to get in most places. A small fix in the CCLA (and ICLA) is all that's needed.
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Sam Ruby (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13118815#comment-13118815 ]
Sam Ruby commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------
> As I understand it, NSA does not believe it is legally able to sign the Apache CCLA.
What leads the NSA to conclude that they are obligated to sign the Apache CCLA?
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
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[jira] [Issue Comment Edited] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for
the National Security Agency
Posted by "Benson Margulies (Issue Comment Edited) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13117587#comment-13117587 ]
Benson Margulies edited comment on LEGAL-100 at 9/29/11 8:21 PM:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Larry,
I think that, after a fashion, you started this, and now indeed they can sign the regular agreement and be done.
The inception of this was the thread on legal-discuss where you, if I remember correctly, were somewhat emphatic on the desire to have a CRADA or *something* to indicate a cooperative intention with respect to the un-copyrighted material. A CRADA is a giant PITA, so the gang came up with the CCLA mods in an effort to meet you half-way. If you (and Sam?) are content to take the usual CCLA for the stuff with copyright and accept good-faith commits from the committers with respect to the other stuff, then my belief is that we'll be good to go with the ordinary CCLA.
was (Author: bmargulies):
Larry,
I think that, after a fashion, you started this, and now indeed they can sign the regular agreement and be done.
The inception of this was the thread on legal-discuss where you, if I remember aright, were some emphatic on the desire to have a CRADA or *something* to indicate a cooperative intention with respect to the un-copyrighted material. A CRADA is a giant PITA, so the gang came up with the CCLA mods in an effort to meet you half-way. If you (and Sam?) are content to take the usual CCLA for the stuff with copyright and accept good-faith commits from the committers with respect to the other stuff, then my belief is that we'll be good to go.
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Billie Rinaldi (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13118096#comment-13118096 ]
Billie Rinaldi commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
> I'll be glad to speak directly with whatever government attorney [...]
This sounds ideal from my perspective. I will endeavor to put someone in touch with you.
Billie
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Lawrence Rosen (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13117814#comment-13117814 ]
Lawrence Rosen commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
Benson, I agree that a CRADA is a giant PITA, but it is also a way for a government agency to define the level of cooperative participation it expects to play in an Apache PMC. It is a way for a government agency to describe process *other than copyright licensing*, although statements of its commitment to (e.g., Apache's) particular licensing model belongs in a CRADA also. My understanding of CRADA documents is limited to one with the Dept. of Defense that took far more time for the government lawyers to write up than it took to implement. But the government operates by its own rules, and I'd encourage them to ask their own lawyers what to do in this case.
I don't think anything should discourage NSA from participating in Apache by contributing copyrighted and non-copyrighted software in their possession and control to our projects, or from asking us to help them to incubate a new project. I understand that a CCLA is required for that. If they believe they also need a CRADA to describe their own internal rules for participation, that's okay with me. Changing our CCLA isn't okay with me, at least not for the reason of contributing non-copyrighted software to Apache.
/Larry
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Adam Fuchs (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13118848#comment-13118848 ]
Adam Fuchs commented on LEGAL-100:
----------------------------------
NSA is looking for mutually acceptable terms via which its employees can be allowed to become committers to Apache projects as part of their official duties. Standard ICLA with a modified CCLA is one proposed solution, but NSA is open to other suggestions. Larry alluded to the possibility that government employee committers who have signed an ICLA might not require a signed CCLA for continuing contributions that are in the public domain, and I'm sure NSA and its employees would also find that to be an acceptable solution.
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Doug Cutting (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13117382#comment-13117382 ]
Doug Cutting commented on LEGAL-100:
------------------------------------
Sam, Larry: any thoughts about this?
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr. (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13127326#comment-13127326 ]
William A. Rowe, Jr. commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------------
David, I can hardly disagree with you.
The fact that this particular body acquiesced to our CLAA shouldn't be treated as evidence that it is worded properly.
But since the NSA accepts this agreement, I urge you to re-frame your thoughts in their entirety, and take this to legal-discuss@apache.org for further deliberation.
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Resolved] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Sam Ruby (Resolved) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Sam Ruby resolved LEGAL-100.
----------------------------
Resolution: Not A Problem
Closing as the NSA has sent us an unmodified CCLA
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
> Assignee: Sam Ruby
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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[jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-100) Modifications to CCLA for the
National Security Agency
Posted by "Lawrence Rosen (Commented) (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13118858#comment-13118858 ]
Lawrence Rosen commented on LEGAL-100:
--------------------------------------
In order to encourage government employee committers to work within Apache, I welcome them to sign ICLAs. Why not?
As for receiving contributions that are in the public domain: What law prevents us from just taking them? Or more appropriately, perhaps, filing a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) demand for their production. But it would be much more convenient if U.S. government agencies simply contributed software that is in the public domain without our using such an uncooperative process to get it. I don't want to turn Apache projects into aggressors for public domain materials in the custody and control of the government. Nor do I want my government to avoid working with us because they don't know how to give us something we already co-own.
The reason I suggested a CRADA previously is that these agreements are designed for *cooperative* research and development. If NSA or any other government agency wants to work with us, with either a written CRADA or an implied one, Apache should accept that cooperation gratefully.
/Larry
************* From http://www.usgs.gov/tech-transfer/what-crada.html:
Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA)
A Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) is a written agreement between a private company and a government agency to work together on a project. Created as a result of the Stevenson-Wydler Technology Innovation Act of 1980, as amended by the Federal Technology Transfer Act of 1986, a CRADA allows the Federal government and non-Federal partners to optimize their resources, share technical expertise in a protected environment, share intellectual property emerging from the effort, and speed the commercialization of federally developed technology.
A CRADA is an excellent technology transfer tool. It can:
Provide incentives that help speed the commercialization of federally-developed technology.
Protect any proprietary information brought to the CRADA effort by the partner.
Allow all parties to the CRADA to keep research results emerging from the CRADA confidential and free from disclosure through the Freedom of Information Act for up to 5 years.
Allow the government and the partner to share patents and patent licenses.
Permit one partner to retain exclusive rights to a patent or patent license.
> Modifications to CCLA for the National Security Agency
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-100
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-100
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Adam Fuchs
>
> In preparation for contributing Accumulo to the incubator, the National Security Agency has submitted a modified version of the CCLA. The modifications include a broadening of the definition of "You" and "Your" to include owners of contributions not subject to copyright, and a limit on the copyright license to the material for which copyright exists. We would like to know if this modified CCLA is acceptable to cover our participation as Apache committers. The modified paragraphs follow:
> ...
> "You" (or "Your") shall mean the copyright owner, the owner of a
> contribution not subject to copyright, or legal entity authorized by
> the copyright owner that is making this Agreement with the Foundation.
> For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other
> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control
> with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the
> purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or
> indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether
> by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or
> more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
> entity.
> ...
> 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions
> of this Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to
> recipients of software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual,
> worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
> copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
> publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute
> Your Contributions and such derivative works, to the extent that
> copyright exists in the Contribution(s).
> ...
--
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