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Posted to dev@harmony.apache.org by Alex Blewitt <al...@gmail.com> on 2007/05/06 11:05:28 UTC
Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Hi everyone,
A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
used there).
At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
not passed the TCK yet.
What do others think?
Alex.
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Guess, we will know what to do next after next weeks's JavaOne. right? :)
-- dims
On 5/6/07, Jin Mingjian <ji...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Alex,
> the project seems a bit trivial work?:)
> the end of Q2, 2007 is very near, and the step of harmony seem very
> stable. But Maybe we should forget the TCK?
>
> 2007/5/6, Alex Blewitt <al...@gmail.com>:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> > has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> > listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> > combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
> >
> > There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> > the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> > feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> > things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> > with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> > has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> > used there).
> >
> > At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> > stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> > not passed the TCK yet.
> >
> > What do others think?
> >
> > Alex.
> >
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Jin Mingjian <ji...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Alex,
the project seems a bit trivial work?:)
the end of Q2, 2007 is very near, and the step of harmony seem very
stable. But Maybe we should forget the TCK?
2007/5/6, Alex Blewitt <al...@gmail.com>:
> Hi everyone,
>
> A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
>
> There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> used there).
>
> At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> not passed the TCK yet.
>
> What do others think?
>
> Alex.
>
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nd...@apache.org>.
The news post on the site seems explain that the packaged Harmony is a
pre-release version [1] (M1) and that it's a "glimpse of the future".
Also, the development status is now listed as alpha.
Perhaps the site was still being updated.
-Nathan
[1] http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=692898
On 5/6/07, Alex Blewitt <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
>
> There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> used there).
>
> At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> not passed the TCK yet.
>
> What do others think?
>
> Alex.
>
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Rana Dasgupta <rd...@gmail.com>.
I agree. But I hope that any other sse2 related issue found would be a
bug that we can fix. We cannot state support for W2K, this has not
been tried at all, and AFAIK, the vector exception handling has not
been ported.
On 5/10/07, Mikhail Fursov <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, it runs HWA or other simple apps, but I would not say it's usable
> unless we test it as hard as we do modern platforms.
>
>
> On 5/8/07, Nathan Beyer <nd...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > I thought we got all of the sse2 stuff? It should work but it will be
> > pretty slow.
> >
> >
> > On 5/8/07, Mikhail Fursov <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 5/8/07, Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just a minor remark on the topic: as listed on the site,
> > > > "Operating System : 32-bit MS Windows (NT/2000/XP), Linux"
> > > >
> > > > Looks a bit too optimistic for MS Win support, or did I missed smth?
> > >
> > >
> > > I can be the problem of sourceforge interface if it allows choosing only
> > 3
> > > systems in a bundle.
> > > AFAIK we won't run on W2K nor on any of non-SSE2 platforms.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mikhail Fursov
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mikhail Fursov
>
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Mikhail Fursov <mi...@gmail.com>.
Yes, it runs HWA or other simple apps, but I would not say it's usable
unless we test it as hard as we do modern platforms.
On 5/8/07, Nathan Beyer <nd...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I thought we got all of the sse2 stuff? It should work but it will be
> pretty slow.
>
>
> On 5/8/07, Mikhail Fursov <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 5/8/07, Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Just a minor remark on the topic: as listed on the site,
> > > "Operating System : 32-bit MS Windows (NT/2000/XP), Linux"
> > >
> > > Looks a bit too optimistic for MS Win support, or did I missed smth?
> >
> >
> > I can be the problem of sourceforge interface if it allows choosing only
> 3
> > systems in a bundle.
> > AFAIK we won't run on W2K nor on any of non-SSE2 platforms.
> >
> > --
> > Mikhail Fursov
> >
>
--
Mikhail Fursov
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nd...@apache.org>.
I thought we got all of the sse2 stuff? It should work but it will be
pretty slow.
On 5/8/07, Mikhail Fursov <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/8/07, Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Just a minor remark on the topic: as listed on the site,
> > "Operating System : 32-bit MS Windows (NT/2000/XP), Linux"
> >
> > Looks a bit too optimistic for MS Win support, or did I missed smth?
>
>
> I can be the problem of sourceforge interface if it allows choosing only 3
> systems in a bundle.
> AFAIK we won't run on W2K nor on any of non-SSE2 platforms.
>
> --
> Mikhail Fursov
>
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Mikhail Fursov <mi...@gmail.com>.
On 5/8/07, Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just a minor remark on the topic: as listed on the site,
> "Operating System : 32-bit MS Windows (NT/2000/XP), Linux"
>
> Looks a bit too optimistic for MS Win support, or did I missed smth?
I can be the problem of sourceforge interface if it allows choosing only 3
systems in a bundle.
AFAIK we won't run on W2K nor on any of non-SSE2 platforms.
--
Mikhail Fursov
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com>.
Just a minor remark on the topic: as listed on the site,
"Operating System : 32-bit MS Windows (NT/2000/XP), Linux"
Looks a bit too optimistic for MS Win support, or did I missed smth?
2007/5/7, Alex Blewitt <al...@gmail.com>:
> Yes, the page has now been updated to reflect a more accurate
> description of the project. When I posted the original concern, the
> total documentation was "A harmonic combination of Eclipse and Apache
> JRE" and listed as "Production/Stable". I felt that this wasn't an
> accurate summary and didn't emphasise that it was based on a milestone
> release of Harmony (nor mentioning what version it was).
>
> I only raised it because of this discrepancy; and yes, it's good that
> we're getting others to test this and submit JIRAs. I don't think
> that's a bad thing at all; just masquerading it as 'production/stable'
> and without any mention of which version it was based on.
>
> I'm glad that the new description has been changed; it reads much better.
>
> Alex.
>
> On 06/05/07, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Alex Blewitt wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> > > has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> > > listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> > > combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
> > >
> > > There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> > > the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> > > feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> > > things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> > > with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> > > has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> > > used there).
> > >
> > > At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> > > stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> > > not passed the TCK yet.
> > >
> > > What do others think?
> > >
> > > Alex.
> >
> > I think you are being a bit harsh Alex.
> >
> > I was aware of this 'packaging' project by Philippe, Gunnar, and Wayne
> > (who are all well respected members within the open source community),
> > which now accurately describes itself as :
> >
> > "In Harmony With Eclipse is a demonstration of two great open
> > source projects working together. The package contains the
> > latest stable release version of Eclipse (3.2.2) running on
> > a pre-release version of Apache Harmony (5.0M1). It must be
> > noted that this release is not intended as production-quality
> > software, but is instead a glimpse of the future. While the
> > combination of Eclipse and Harmony does work well, there are
> > limitations. These limitations are being addressed as Eclipse
> > and Harmony development continues. Your feedback to the Eclipse
> > and Harmony Teams is welcomed."
> >
> > Of course, Harmony does not claim to be a certified Java implementation.
> > Our desire to pass the JCK and get certification is well documented;
> > but in the meantime I think it is encouraging that people find value in
> > what we have produced so far. Having more users and incoming JIRAs for
> > our work in progress won't give Harmony a bad name unless we fail to
> > respond by producing the best compatible implementation out there.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by "Jimmy,Jing Lv" <fi...@gmail.com>.
However this is a good news for all of us Harmony guys, when other
communities recognize our work and eager to run their applications on
Harmony :-)
I remember a long time ago I do run eclipse on Harmony (though it is
by mistake, I set JAVA_HOME and system property "PATH" to harmony and
forget to set back, so eclipse started with Harmony, with IBMVME), it
worked quite well :) A long time has passed and I believe Harmony can
work even better now. What's more, if someone run this combination and
do feed back bugs in Harmony, it is really good chance that we improve
Harmony (hey, we have to work hard then:) ).
I'm wondering if we can do something more. If we can make Harmony
better and more stable, we can work with other communities to build
"Harmony based" products.
When I run some java app on my firefox it should try to download a
jdk, so why not make a Harmony-Firefox? And why not Harmony-Tomcat?
There are so many well-known open source java-based program and
Harmony do have a lot of chances! Eclipse is only a beginning, right?
:-P
2007/5/7, Alex Blewitt <al...@gmail.com>:
> Yes, the page has now been updated to reflect a more accurate
> description of the project. When I posted the original concern, the
> total documentation was "A harmonic combination of Eclipse and Apache
> JRE" and listed as "Production/Stable". I felt that this wasn't an
> accurate summary and didn't emphasise that it was based on a milestone
> release of Harmony (nor mentioning what version it was).
>
> I only raised it because of this discrepancy; and yes, it's good that
> we're getting others to test this and submit JIRAs. I don't think
> that's a bad thing at all; just masquerading it as 'production/stable'
> and without any mention of which version it was based on.
>
> I'm glad that the new description has been changed; it reads much better.
>
> Alex.
>
> On 06/05/07, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Alex Blewitt wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> > > has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> > > listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> > > combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
> > >
> > > There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> > > the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> > > feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> > > things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> > > with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> > > has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> > > used there).
> > >
> > > At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> > > stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> > > not passed the TCK yet.
> > >
> > > What do others think?
> > >
> > > Alex.
> >
> > I think you are being a bit harsh Alex.
> >
> > I was aware of this 'packaging' project by Philippe, Gunnar, and Wayne
> > (who are all well respected members within the open source community),
> > which now accurately describes itself as :
> >
> > "In Harmony With Eclipse is a demonstration of two great open
> > source projects working together. The package contains the
> > latest stable release version of Eclipse (3.2.2) running on
> > a pre-release version of Apache Harmony (5.0M1). It must be
> > noted that this release is not intended as production-quality
> > software, but is instead a glimpse of the future. While the
> > combination of Eclipse and Harmony does work well, there are
> > limitations. These limitations are being addressed as Eclipse
> > and Harmony development continues. Your feedback to the Eclipse
> > and Harmony Teams is welcomed."
> >
> > Of course, Harmony does not claim to be a certified Java implementation.
> > Our desire to pass the JCK and get certification is well documented;
> > but in the meantime I think it is encouraging that people find value in
> > what we have produced so far. Having more users and incoming JIRAs for
> > our work in progress won't give Harmony a bad name unless we fail to
> > respond by producing the best compatible implementation out there.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
--
Best Regards!
Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Alex Blewitt <al...@gmail.com>.
Yes, the page has now been updated to reflect a more accurate
description of the project. When I posted the original concern, the
total documentation was "A harmonic combination of Eclipse and Apache
JRE" and listed as "Production/Stable". I felt that this wasn't an
accurate summary and didn't emphasise that it was based on a milestone
release of Harmony (nor mentioning what version it was).
I only raised it because of this discrepancy; and yes, it's good that
we're getting others to test this and submit JIRAs. I don't think
that's a bad thing at all; just masquerading it as 'production/stable'
and without any mention of which version it was based on.
I'm glad that the new description has been changed; it reads much better.
Alex.
On 06/05/07, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alex Blewitt wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> > has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> > listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> > combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
> >
> > There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> > the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> > feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> > things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> > with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> > has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> > used there).
> >
> > At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> > stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> > not passed the TCK yet.
> >
> > What do others think?
> >
> > Alex.
>
> I think you are being a bit harsh Alex.
>
> I was aware of this 'packaging' project by Philippe, Gunnar, and Wayne
> (who are all well respected members within the open source community),
> which now accurately describes itself as :
>
> "In Harmony With Eclipse is a demonstration of two great open
> source projects working together. The package contains the
> latest stable release version of Eclipse (3.2.2) running on
> a pre-release version of Apache Harmony (5.0M1). It must be
> noted that this release is not intended as production-quality
> software, but is instead a glimpse of the future. While the
> combination of Eclipse and Harmony does work well, there are
> limitations. These limitations are being addressed as Eclipse
> and Harmony development continues. Your feedback to the Eclipse
> and Harmony Teams is welcomed."
>
> Of course, Harmony does not claim to be a certified Java implementation.
> Our desire to pass the JCK and get certification is well documented;
> but in the meantime I think it is encouraging that people find value in
> what we have produced so far. Having more users and incoming JIRAs for
> our work in progress won't give Harmony a bad name unless we fail to
> respond by producing the best compatible implementation out there.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Alex Blewitt wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
>
> There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> used there).
>
> At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> not passed the TCK yet.
>
> What do others think?
>
> Alex.
I think you are being a bit harsh Alex.
I was aware of this 'packaging' project by Philippe, Gunnar, and Wayne
(who are all well respected members within the open source community),
which now accurately describes itself as :
"In Harmony With Eclipse is a demonstration of two great open
source projects working together. The package contains the
latest stable release version of Eclipse (3.2.2) running on
a pre-release version of Apache Harmony (5.0M1). It must be
noted that this release is not intended as production-quality
software, but is instead a glimpse of the future. While the
combination of Eclipse and Harmony does work well, there are
limitations. These limitations are being addressed as Eclipse
and Harmony development continues. Your feedback to the Eclipse
and Harmony Teams is welcomed."
Of course, Harmony does not claim to be a certified Java implementation.
Our desire to pass the JCK and get certification is well documented;
but in the meantime I think it is encouraging that people find value in
what we have produced so far. Having more users and incoming JIRAs for
our work in progress won't give Harmony a bad name unless we fail to
respond by producing the best compatible implementation out there.
Regards,
Tim
Re: Eclipse packaged with Harmony at SourceForge
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
In the last two days the Eclipse booth at JavaOne have given out 1,000
CDs containing Eclipse and Harmony 5.0M1 packaged together - they were
also fielding lots of questions and discussion about Harmony!
Thanks to all our friends at the Eclipse Foundation.
http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com/2007/05/10/in-harmony-with-eclipse/
Regards,
Tim
Alex Blewitt wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> A version of Eclipse packaged with Harmony (possibly the milestone)
> has turned up at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> listed as "Production/Stable" and using the description "A harmonic
> combination of Eclipse and Apache Harmony JRE."
>
> There doesn't seem to be any hint that either Harmony has not passed
> the TCK at this stage, and nor that it's still a work-in-progress. I
> feel that this may give Harmony a bad name since there are known
> things that don't work (for example, there was a recent known issue
> with the debugger not working with Eclipse, and I don't know if that
> has been resolved, or if it has, whether it's in the build that was
> used there).
>
> At the very least, I'm not happy with either the implicit assertion of
> stability/testing, or the association with JDK/JRE when we know we've
> not passed the TCK yet.
>
> What do others think?
>
> Alex.
>