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Posted to dev@geronimo.apache.org by Andrew Oliver <ac...@jboss.org> on 2003/08/19 04:54:19 UTC
FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Hello,
One of the principal concerns I heard about the "Geronimo" name is that it
was insulting to Native Americans. Therefore I contacted the first advocacy
group for Native Americans that I found on the net (googled on Native
American advocacy and clicked around). This was the reply.
-Andy
------ Forwarded Message
From: "info" <in...@honoradvocacy.org>
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:59:20 -0400
To: Andrew Oliver <ac...@apache.org>
Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Andrew Oliver writes:
> Dear Sir,
>
> I'd like to solicit your assistance. The Apache Software Foundation is
> planning to create an AppServer called "Geronimo". There has been some
> debate as to whether this would be offensive to Native Americans. While I
> realize its impossible to say how any particular Native American would feel
> about the name, I'm hoping you can provide some general feeling as to
> whether it would be better to pick another name and/or avoid Native American
> mascots for projects in the future.
>
> I appreciate any assistance you can lend or any pointers to the correct
> advocacy groups.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
Hello Andy,
My name is Beth Brownfield and I am the Regional coordinator of HONOR at the
new Minneapolis, MN office.
Thank you for your inquiry. HONOR believes it is up to American Indians to
use American Indian names and logos. Thank you for contacting us and for
being sensitive to this issue.
Are you a member of HONOR? Have you seen our brochure on the logo issue.
If you would like I'll send you our new HONOR brochure and the logo
brochure, but will need your mailing address.
Sincerely,
Beth Brownfield
Regional Coordinator, HONOR
------ End of Forwarded Message
Re: [geronimo-dev] FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Geronimo <ge...@ackroyd.freeserve.co.uk>.
To all on the issue including the 'euro-sqabble'
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Oliver" <ac...@jboss.org>
To: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Cc: <me...@apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 3:54 AM
Subject: [geronimo-dev] FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
> Hello,
>
> One of the principal concerns I heard about the "Geronimo" name is that it
> was insulting to Native Americans. Therefore I contacted the first
advocacy
> group for Native Americans that I found on the net (googled on Native
> American advocacy and clicked around). This was the reply.
>
> -Andy
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: "info" <in...@honoradvocacy.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:59:20 -0400
> To: Andrew Oliver <ac...@apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
>
> Andrew Oliver writes:
>
> > Dear Sir,
> >
> > I'd like to solicit your assistance. The Apache Software Foundation is
> > planning to create an AppServer called "Geronimo". There has been some
> > debate as to whether this would be offensive to Native Americans. While
I
> > realize its impossible to say how any particular Native American would
feel
> > about the name, I'm hoping you can provide some general feeling as to
> > whether it would be better to pick another name and/or avoid Native
American
> > mascots for projects in the future.
> >
> > I appreciate any assistance you can lend or any pointers to the correct
> > advocacy groups.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Andy
> >
> Hello Andy,
>
> My name is Beth Brownfield and I am the Regional coordinator of HONOR at
the
> new Minneapolis, MN office.
http://www.honoradvocacy.org/
>
> Thank you for your inquiry.
HONOR believes it is up to American Indians to
> use American Indian names and logos.
I think that means yes, At the moment, tt would be better to pick another
name.
Thank you for contacting us and for
> being sensitive to this issue.
At least you thought of it.
>
> Are you a member of HONOR?
Is Apache.org a member of HONOR?
Have you seen our brochure on the logo issue.
?
> If you would like I'll send you our new HONOR brochure and the logo
> brochure, but will need your mailing address.
Shall I request one and then report back on my interpretation of it?
>
> Sincerely,
> Beth Brownfield
> Regional Coordinator, HONOR
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>
Roger
Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by "n. alex rupp" <ru...@umn.edu>.
Lots of very interesting points here. I'm going to have to think on them
for a while.
Thanks for that, Roger.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Ackroyd" <ge...@ackroyd.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
> Jules Gosnell wrote:
> > Guys,
> >
> > 'Geronimo', according to a quick google, is simply spanish for 'Jerome'
> > and was a soubriquet given, probably by Mexican soldiers, to a
> > particularly admirable Apache called 'Goyathlay'.
> >
> >
> > Since it is not a native American name and already in widespread use, I
> > really don't see anyone reasonable being offended by our adoption of the
> > name.
>
> True. But is that the kinda wishy washy thing one might have to say and
then
> be quoted by the press-corps when this thing gets wheeled out.
>
> Look at all the rest of the Apache project names and there is not one that
> links one individual in the history of any single nation until Geronimo.
All
> of them are thing or place nouns proper or otherwise, and in my view that
is
> the way it should stay. The names should be globally understood, globally
> neutral, engaging, interesting as subjects in their own right and in any
> speak. Apache project names in general adhere this.
>
> This project is still in the incubator. By implication meaning that there
is
> a good chance that it may never hatch. Yet it seems to have already taken
a
> name that holds some 'flagship' status alongside its parent Apache project
> and over and above all of the other Apache projects some of which are
> already earning their keep. What do you call the next project if this one
> fails?
>
> Does the Apache project seek all the Hollywood style 'razz-a-ma-taz'
alluded
> to by Alex Rupp
> ?http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheJ2EE/WhyGeronimo
> Why should it be such a honour? It could be taken to mean that the name
and
> memory or Geronimo has been reduced to a mere 'thing'.
>
> Indian names for western concepts and articles have been around a long
time
> 'Indian' motorcycles is one example but that died out or got sub-humed
> somewhere, 'Tomahawk' cruise-missile is another, but they dont usually
come
> back at you. So many are used generically, but I still dont see that as an
> automatic justification to use them. It is all old time, old fasioned
> marketing crapola anyway. Apache project can do better!
>
> I am sorry Alex, you cannot assume the rest of the world is going to see
it
> all the way you do. Your 5 reasons are almost entirely US marketing
centric
>
> What does Geronimo mean to a person from the Indian sub-continent or far
> east? They are likely to do a quick google and find page after page of
> negative stuff about the American Indian in the history of the US. Lets
face
> the fact that they probably wont get much positive. If they do the same on
> say Turbine, Tapestry, Jakarta they will mostly get issue neutral,
generally
> positive facts about a place or thing.
>
> If somebody had suggested that name in Larry Ellison's office, I reckon
they
> would be ducking flying mallets. Try a google on the word 'mallet'. That
> would have been an appropriate name because then you could have had a
> Weblogic-Mallet, JBoss-Mallet, 9Ias-Mallet etc. to give the press-corps
with
> equal 'attack' in terms of beating the opposition, without any of the
risks
> alluded to with the name Geronimo: A 'Warrior' in the truest sense, that
> lost.
>
> None of this of couse will make any difference and I dont think anyone is
> taking any notice, as Geronimo is already in the class and package
> structures issued thus far. The decision is taken.
>
> I for one think this naming decision is wrong. I hope it does not come
back
> to bite either itself, or the Apache project as a whole. Why does it even
> take the risk of being 'scalped'?
> If I am not the only one, then speak now or forever hold your peace. I
> recknon now, is about the last squeak for getting it changed. Otherwise, I
> shall consider the matter at a close for me and put up with it.
>
> Thanks if you took the time to read this
>
> Roger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shane Caraveo" <sh...@caraveo.com>
> To: <me...@apache.org>
> Cc: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:17 PM
> Subject: [geronimo-dev] Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > IMO If it doesn't matter to use a non-native name for your projects,
> > then pick something non-native and avoid sensitive cultural issues that
> > would only provide the possibility of sidetracking the project.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Shane
> >
> >
>
>
Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
For what its worth, I agree completely with you. Unfortunately, I am not in
the group who originally chose this name, and for a project in the starting
gates they are particularly attached to the name. Go figure. I mean, how
long has this project been incubated, and how quickly did they decide on the
name?
Roger Ackroyd wrote:
> Jules Gosnell wrote:
>
>>Guys,
>>
>>'Geronimo', according to a quick google, is simply spanish for 'Jerome'
>>and was a soubriquet given, probably by Mexican soldiers, to a
>>particularly admirable Apache called 'Goyathlay'.
>>
>>
>>Since it is not a native American name and already in widespread use, I
>>really don't see anyone reasonable being offended by our adoption of the
>>name.
>
>
> True. But is that the kinda wishy washy thing one might have to say and then
> be quoted by the press-corps when this thing gets wheeled out.
>
> Look at all the rest of the Apache project names and there is not one that
> links one individual in the history of any single nation until Geronimo. All
> of them are thing or place nouns proper or otherwise, and in my view that is
> the way it should stay. The names should be globally understood, globally
> neutral, engaging, interesting as subjects in their own right and in any
> speak. Apache project names in general adhere this.
>
> This project is still in the incubator. By implication meaning that there is
> a good chance that it may never hatch. Yet it seems to have already taken a
> name that holds some 'flagship' status alongside its parent Apache project
> and over and above all of the other Apache projects some of which are
> already earning their keep. What do you call the next project if this one
> fails?
>
> Does the Apache project seek all the Hollywood style 'razz-a-ma-taz' alluded
> to by Alex Rupp
> ?http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheJ2EE/WhyGeronimo
> Why should it be such a honour? It could be taken to mean that the name and
> memory or Geronimo has been reduced to a mere 'thing'.
>
> Indian names for western concepts and articles have been around a long time
> 'Indian' motorcycles is one example but that died out or got sub-humed
> somewhere, 'Tomahawk' cruise-missile is another, but they dont usually come
> back at you. So many are used generically, but I still dont see that as an
> automatic justification to use them. It is all old time, old fasioned
> marketing crapola anyway. Apache project can do better!
>
> I am sorry Alex, you cannot assume the rest of the world is going to see it
> all the way you do. Your 5 reasons are almost entirely US marketing centric
>
> What does Geronimo mean to a person from the Indian sub-continent or far
> east? They are likely to do a quick google and find page after page of
> negative stuff about the American Indian in the history of the US. Lets face
> the fact that they probably wont get much positive. If they do the same on
> say Turbine, Tapestry, Jakarta they will mostly get issue neutral, generally
> positive facts about a place or thing.
>
> If somebody had suggested that name in Larry Ellison's office, I reckon they
> would be ducking flying mallets. Try a google on the word 'mallet'. That
> would have been an appropriate name because then you could have had a
> Weblogic-Mallet, JBoss-Mallet, 9Ias-Mallet etc. to give the press-corps with
> equal 'attack' in terms of beating the opposition, without any of the risks
> alluded to with the name Geronimo: A 'Warrior' in the truest sense, that
> lost.
>
> None of this of couse will make any difference and I dont think anyone is
> taking any notice, as Geronimo is already in the class and package
> structures issued thus far. The decision is taken.
>
> I for one think this naming decision is wrong. I hope it does not come back
> to bite either itself, or the Apache project as a whole. Why does it even
> take the risk of being 'scalped'?
> If I am not the only one, then speak now or forever hold your peace. I
> recknon now, is about the last squeak for getting it changed. Otherwise, I
> shall consider the matter at a close for me and put up with it.
>
> Thanks if you took the time to read this
>
> Roger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shane Caraveo" <sh...@caraveo.com>
> To: <me...@apache.org>
> Cc: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:17 PM
> Subject: [geronimo-dev] Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
>
>
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>IMO If it doesn't matter to use a non-native name for your projects,
>>then pick something non-native and avoid sensitive cultural issues that
>>would only provide the possibility of sidetracking the project.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Shane
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Roger Ackroyd <ge...@ackroyd.freeserve.co.uk>.
Jules Gosnell wrote:
> Guys,
>
> 'Geronimo', according to a quick google, is simply spanish for 'Jerome'
> and was a soubriquet given, probably by Mexican soldiers, to a
> particularly admirable Apache called 'Goyathlay'.
>
>
> Since it is not a native American name and already in widespread use, I
> really don't see anyone reasonable being offended by our adoption of the
> name.
True. But is that the kinda wishy washy thing one might have to say and then
be quoted by the press-corps when this thing gets wheeled out.
Look at all the rest of the Apache project names and there is not one that
links one individual in the history of any single nation until Geronimo. All
of them are thing or place nouns proper or otherwise, and in my view that is
the way it should stay. The names should be globally understood, globally
neutral, engaging, interesting as subjects in their own right and in any
speak. Apache project names in general adhere this.
This project is still in the incubator. By implication meaning that there is
a good chance that it may never hatch. Yet it seems to have already taken a
name that holds some 'flagship' status alongside its parent Apache project
and over and above all of the other Apache projects some of which are
already earning their keep. What do you call the next project if this one
fails?
Does the Apache project seek all the Hollywood style 'razz-a-ma-taz' alluded
to by Alex Rupp
?http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheJ2EE/WhyGeronimo
Why should it be such a honour? It could be taken to mean that the name and
memory or Geronimo has been reduced to a mere 'thing'.
Indian names for western concepts and articles have been around a long time
'Indian' motorcycles is one example but that died out or got sub-humed
somewhere, 'Tomahawk' cruise-missile is another, but they dont usually come
back at you. So many are used generically, but I still dont see that as an
automatic justification to use them. It is all old time, old fasioned
marketing crapola anyway. Apache project can do better!
I am sorry Alex, you cannot assume the rest of the world is going to see it
all the way you do. Your 5 reasons are almost entirely US marketing centric
What does Geronimo mean to a person from the Indian sub-continent or far
east? They are likely to do a quick google and find page after page of
negative stuff about the American Indian in the history of the US. Lets face
the fact that they probably wont get much positive. If they do the same on
say Turbine, Tapestry, Jakarta they will mostly get issue neutral, generally
positive facts about a place or thing.
If somebody had suggested that name in Larry Ellison's office, I reckon they
would be ducking flying mallets. Try a google on the word 'mallet'. That
would have been an appropriate name because then you could have had a
Weblogic-Mallet, JBoss-Mallet, 9Ias-Mallet etc. to give the press-corps with
equal 'attack' in terms of beating the opposition, without any of the risks
alluded to with the name Geronimo: A 'Warrior' in the truest sense, that
lost.
None of this of couse will make any difference and I dont think anyone is
taking any notice, as Geronimo is already in the class and package
structures issued thus far. The decision is taken.
I for one think this naming decision is wrong. I hope it does not come back
to bite either itself, or the Apache project as a whole. Why does it even
take the risk of being 'scalped'?
If I am not the only one, then speak now or forever hold your peace. I
recknon now, is about the last squeak for getting it changed. Otherwise, I
shall consider the matter at a close for me and put up with it.
Thanks if you took the time to read this
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shane Caraveo" <sh...@caraveo.com>
To: <me...@apache.org>
Cc: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: [geronimo-dev] Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
> Hello,
>
> IMO If it doesn't matter to use a non-native name for your projects,
> then pick something non-native and avoid sensitive cultural issues that
> would only provide the possibility of sidetracking the project.
>
>
> Regards,
> Shane
>
>
Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Shane Caraveo <sh...@caraveo.com>.
Hello,
For several years now I have been a member of a small group of
educators, activists, etc. running NativeWeb.org (we provide a
yahoo-like directory, and basic technical services to various indigenous
organizations). I'm also of partial native descent (as well as
european, I'm a mutt), though am not a part of any native culture.
While I cannot speak for any native culture, and I'm certainly no
cultural expert, I do have a little bit of insight I've gained over the
years.
Without going into a long email on this subject, yes, the use of
'Geronimo' by a non-native organization would be found very offensive by
at least some, if not many, native people. You don't have to understand
it, nor will I attempt explain it, it is just that way. HONOR's
response sounds to me fairly neutral on the subject compared to what you
might get from many other organizations. Send the same question to AIM,
and you'll likely get a very different response. From a western
perspective, this may seem like a lot of nonsence, but for many
non-western cultures, this is an important issue.
IMO If it doesn't matter to use a non-native name for your projects,
then pick something non-native and avoid sensitive cultural issues that
would only provide the possibility of sidetracking the project.
BTW, Apache, PHP and other projects have the same issue with not wanting
their names used by someone else (assuming I understand the license
stuff at least a little), why should it be any different for a whole
culture?
Regards,
Shane
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> One of the principal concerns I heard about the "Geronimo" name is
that it was
>> insulting to Native Americans. Therefore I contacted the first
advocacy group
>> for Native Americans that I found on the net (googled on Native American
>> advocacy and clicked around). This was the reply.
>>
>> -Andy
>> ------ Forwarded Message
>> From: "info" <in...@honoradvocacy.org>
>> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:59:20 -0400
>> To: Andrew Oliver <ac...@apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
>>
>> Andrew Oliver writes:
>>
>
>>>> Dear Sir,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to solicit your assistance. The Apache Software
Foundation is
>>>> planning to create an AppServer called "Geronimo". There has been
some
>>>> debate as to whether this would be offensive to Native Americans.
While I
>>>> realize its impossible to say how any particular Native American
would feel
>>>> about the name, I'm hoping you can provide some general feeling as to
>>>> whether it would be better to pick another name and/or avoid
Native American
>>>> mascots for projects in the future.
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate any assistance you can lend or any pointers to the
correct
>>>> advocacy groups.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>
>> Hello Andy,
>>
>> My name is Beth Brownfield and I am the Regional coordinator of
HONOR at the
>> new Minneapolis, MN office.
>>
>> Thank you for your inquiry. HONOR believes it is up to American
Indians to
>> use American Indian names and logos. Thank you for contacting us
and for
>> being sensitive to this issue.
>>
>> Are you a member of HONOR? Have you seen our brochure on the logo
issue.
>> If you would like I'll send you our new HONOR brochure and the logo
>> brochure, but will need your mailing address.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Beth Brownfield
>> Regional Coordinator, HONOR
>>
>>
>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by "n. alex rupp" <ru...@umn.edu>.
Well, that makes it much easier, then. The man's Indian name was
"Goyathlay".
"Geronimo" is Spanish for Jerome--the name was given to him by the Mexican
government. So we should probably be alright if we don't name the project
"Goyathlay".
Thanks for settling the matter, Andy.
If HONOR has any further questions, I'll go down to their offices myself,
since I live in Minneapolis and am one eighth Ojibwe, (FTR, we prefer
the term "American Indians" ;-)
Cheers,
--
N. Alex Rupp (n_alex_rupp@users.sf.net)
(http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheJ2EE/WhyGeronimo)
"There's no such thing as a half Indian."
-- My Mom
> > ------ Forwarded Message
> > From: "info" <in...@honoradvocacy.org>
> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:59:20 -0400
> > To: Andrew Oliver <ac...@apache.org>
> > Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
> >
> My name is Beth Brownfield and I am the Regional coordinator of HONOR at
> the new Minneapolis, MN office.
>
> Thank you for your inquiry. HONOR believes it is up to American Indians
to
> use American Indian names and logos. Thank you for contacting us and for
> being sensitive to this issue.
>
> Are you a member of HONOR? Have you seen our brochure on the logo
> issue. If you would like I'll send you our new HONOR brochure and the
> logo brochure, but will need your mailing address.
>
> Sincerely,
> Beth Brownfield
> Regional Coordinator, HONOR
Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
On 8/18/03 10:54 PM, "Andrew Oliver"
--
Andrew C. Oliver
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
For Java and Excel, Got POI?
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> One of the principal concerns I heard about the "Geronimo" name is that it was
> insulting to Native Americans. Therefore I contacted the first advocacy group
> for Native Americans that I found on the net (googled on Native American
> advocacy and clicked around). This was the reply.
>
> -Andy
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: "info" <in...@honoradvocacy.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:59:20 -0400
> To: Andrew Oliver <ac...@apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
>
> Andrew Oliver writes:
>
>> Dear Sir,
>>
>> I'd like to solicit your assistance. The Apache Software Foundation is
>> planning to create an AppServer called "Geronimo". There has been some
>> debate as to whether this would be offensive to Native Americans. While I
>> realize its impossible to say how any particular Native American would feel
>> about the name, I'm hoping you can provide some general feeling as to
>> whether it would be better to pick another name and/or avoid Native American
>> mascots for projects in the future.
>>
>> I appreciate any assistance you can lend or any pointers to the correct
>> advocacy groups.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>>
> Hello Andy,
>
> My name is Beth Brownfield and I am the Regional coordinator of HONOR at the
> new Minneapolis, MN office.
>
> Thank you for your inquiry. HONOR believes it is up to American Indians to
> use American Indian names and logos. Thank you for contacting us and for
> being sensitive to this issue.
>
> Are you a member of HONOR? Have you seen our brochure on the logo issue.
> If you would like I'll send you our new HONOR brochure and the logo
> brochure, but will need your mailing address.
>
> Sincerely,
> Beth Brownfield
> Regional Coordinator, HONOR
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
Re: FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Greg Wilkins <gr...@mortbay.com>.
I think it would be good if this information about Geronimo could be put
on the wiki FAQ.
Given that our meta name space uses the name of an entire native
american nation, I don't think it is inappropriate to call our project
after a prominant native american.
Surely if apache and it's feather logo are OK, then geronimo is also fine.
cheers
Jules Gosnell wrote:
> Guys,
>
> 'Geronimo', according to a quick google, is simply spanish for 'Jerome'
> and was a soubriquet given, probably by Mexican soldiers, to a
> particularly admirable Apache called 'Goyathlay'.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=jerome+geronimo&btnG=Google+Search
>
>
> Since it is not a native American name and already in widespread use, I
> really don't see anyone reasonable being offended by our adoption of the
> name.
>
>
> Jules
>
>
> Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
>
>> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok. True. The Vikings probably weren't terribly popular,
>>> anywhere. You probably didn't hear "Oh, good! The Vikings are
>>> coming...." very often. Maybe that's what it was - they just felt
>>> neglected and unwanted, and were acting out...
>>>
>>> Seriously, though, my point was well-intended.
>>>
>>
>> i don't understand your above sentence, at least i don't understand some
>> parts of it.
>>
>> are you speaking about vikings in (north) america? at side note i am
>> living in europe/germany.
>>
>> at their time the vikings were the most talented sailor and boatbuilder.
>> and in particular they discovered america centuries before Columbus.
>>
>> just some thoughts ...
>>
>> regards
>>
>> daniel s. haischt
>> --
>>
>
>
Re: FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Jules Gosnell <ju...@coredevelopers.net>.
Guys,
'Geronimo', according to a quick google, is simply spanish for 'Jerome'
and was a soubriquet given, probably by Mexican soldiers, to a
particularly admirable Apache called 'Goyathlay'.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=jerome+geronimo&btnG=Google+Search
Since it is not a native American name and already in widespread use, I
really don't see anyone reasonable being offended by our adoption of the
name.
Jules
Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>
>>
>> Ok. True. The Vikings probably weren't terribly popular,
>> anywhere. You probably didn't hear "Oh, good! The Vikings are
>> coming...." very often. Maybe that's what it was - they just felt
>> neglected and unwanted, and were acting out...
>>
>> Seriously, though, my point was well-intended.
>>
>
> i don't understand your above sentence, at least i don't understand some
> parts of it.
>
> are you speaking about vikings in (north) america? at side note i am
> living in europe/germany.
>
> at their time the vikings were the most talented sailor and boatbuilder.
> and in particular they discovered america centuries before Columbus.
>
> just some thoughts ...
>
> regards
>
> daniel s. haischt
> --
>
--
/*************************************
* Jules Gosnell
* Partner
* Core Developers Network (Europe)
* http://www.coredevelopers.net
*************************************/
Re: FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by "Daniel S. Haischt" <me...@daniel.stefan.haischt.name>.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
[...]
>
>
> Ok. True. The Vikings probably weren't terribly popular, anywhere.
> You probably didn't hear "Oh, good! The Vikings are coming...." very
> often. Maybe that's what it was - they just felt neglected and
> unwanted, and were acting out...
>
> Seriously, though, my point was well-intended.
>
i don't understand your above sentence, at least i don't understand some
parts of it.
are you speaking about vikings in (north) america? at side note i am
living in europe/germany.
at their time the vikings were the most talented sailor and boatbuilder.
and in particular they discovered america centuries before Columbus.
just some thoughts ...
regards
daniel s. haischt
--
Re: FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Ask Bjoern Hansen <as...@perl.org>.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
[...]
> Seriously, though, my point was well-intended.
A viking name was good enough for that fancy wireless protocol in
our phones.
:-)
- ask
--
http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/ - http://develooper.com/
Re: FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 03:14 AM, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>> I'm of Icelandic heritage, and would be more than happy to see
>> anything
>> named after a Viking.
>
> Make sure you do a s/Feather/Bloody Axe/g - as the latter may be more
> appropriate for the flamefest bound to follow such remarks.
>
> :-)
Ok. True. The Vikings probably weren't terribly popular, anywhere.
You probably didn't hear "Oh, good! The Vikings are coming...." very
often. Maybe that's what it was - they just felt neglected and
unwanted, and were acting out...
Seriously, though, my point was well-intended.
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-434-2093(m)
geirm@adeptra.com 203-247-1713(m)
Re: FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org>.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> I'm of Icelandic heritage, and would be more than happy to see anything
> named after a Viking.
Make sure you do a s/Feather/Bloody Axe/g - as the latter may be more
appropriate for the flamefest bound to follow such remarks.
:-)
Dw
Re: FW: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@adeptra.com>.
seems like a pretty useless answer.
I really dislike the name Geronimo too, but I can't see how it would be
insulting. The currently-named geronimo project is so far very
positive, active, and cool.
I'm of Icelandic heritage, and would be more than happy to see anything
named after a Viking.
:D
On Monday, August 18, 2003, at 10:54 PM, Andrew Oliver wrote:
> Hello,
>
> One of the principal concerns I heard about the "Geronimo" name is
> that it
> was insulting to Native Americans. Therefore I contacted the first
> advocacy
> group for Native Americans that I found on the net (googled on Native
> American advocacy and clicked around). This was the reply.
>
> -Andy
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: "info" <in...@honoradvocacy.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:59:20 -0400
> To: Andrew Oliver <ac...@apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
>
> Andrew Oliver writes:
>
>> Dear Sir,
>>
>> I'd like to solicit your assistance. The Apache Software Foundation
>> is
>> planning to create an AppServer called "Geronimo". There has been
>> some
>> debate as to whether this would be offensive to Native Americans.
>> While I
>> realize its impossible to say how any particular Native American
>> would feel
>> about the name, I'm hoping you can provide some general feeling as to
>> whether it would be better to pick another name and/or avoid Native
>> American
>> mascots for projects in the future.
>>
>> I appreciate any assistance you can lend or any pointers to the
>> correct
>> advocacy groups.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>>
> Hello Andy,
>
> My name is Beth Brownfield and I am the Regional coordinator of HONOR
> at the
> new Minneapolis, MN office.
>
> Thank you for your inquiry. HONOR believes it is up to American
> Indians to
> use American Indian names and logos. Thank you for contacting us and
> for
> being sensitive to this issue.
>
> Are you a member of HONOR? Have you seen our brochure on the logo
> issue.
> If you would like I'll send you our new HONOR brochure and the logo
> brochure, but will need your mailing address.
>
> Sincerely,
> Beth Brownfield
> Regional Coordinator, HONOR
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-434-2093(m)
geirm@adeptra.com 203-247-1713(m)