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Posted to dev@river.apache.org by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> on 2010/11/22 21:11:23 UTC
graduation
Shall we start working on graduation?
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
Gr. Sim
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 11:45, Tom Hobbs wrote:
> My googlemail client is clever. My "More about links" have now changed to;
>
> Graduation »
> Chicken Egg Hatch »
> Duck Egg Incubator »
> Quail Incubation »
> Project Finance »
> <snip>
ROTFL! Esp. project finance.
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Tom Hobbs <tv...@googlemail.com>.
My googlemail client is clever. My "More about links" have now changed to;
Graduation »
Chicken Egg Hatch »
Duck Egg Incubator »
Quail Incubation »
Project Finance »
<snip>
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
> On 24-11-10 11:41, Tom Hobbs wrote:
>>
>> You say it like that's a bad thing, I think my feathers are quite nice.
>> :-)
>
> Tom, i've always told you. They look very nice! Lets fly!
>
> --
> QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
> Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 11:41, Tom Hobbs wrote:
> You say it like that's a bad thing, I think my feathers are quite nice. :-)
Tom, i've always told you. They look very nice! Lets fly!
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 12:12, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Sim IJskes - QCG<si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
>> so we need to do our rename (Jukka is Mentor) before we can complete our
>> checklist.
>
> I didn't say that. I only asked to have consensus on a release roadmap
> that includes the package rename. The actual renaming can well happen
> after graduation.
Oops. Off to wash my mouth.
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
> so we need to do our rename (Jukka is Mentor) before we can complete our
> checklist.
I didn't say that. I only asked to have consensus on a release roadmap
that includes the package rename. The actual renaming can well happen
after graduation.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 11:59, Tom Hobbs wrote:
> Lets do the road map for both of these things and then graduate and
> then complete the road map.
>
> This allows us to give appropriate warning to the user base of the big
> changes coming their way.
>
>> Shall we do it [request gradutation] NOW?
> +1
We don't really need to request it. The only thing that is between us
and graduation is a vote from the Board. The Board will only vote
positive when whe have completed the checklist. On the checklist there is
> It is unlikely that IPMC members will vote to approve graduation unless the Mentors and community positively express their readiness for graduation.
so we need to do our rename (Jukka is Mentor) before we can complete our
checklist.
Gr. Sim
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Tom Hobbs <tv...@googlemail.com>.
Lets do the road map for both of these things and then graduate and
then complete the road map.
This allows us to give appropriate warning to the user base of the big
changes coming their way.
> Shall we do it [request gradutation] NOW?
+1
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
> On 24-11-10 11:51, Jukka Zitting wrote:
>>
>> None of the graduation requirements [1] involve the technical status
>> of the project, so there's no need to delay graduation for these
>> issues.
>>
>> The only point that's relevant from the Incubator point of view is
>> project branding, and through that the use of the org.apache package
>> space. As mentioned before, I consider a release roadmap that includes
>> the package change as sufficient for graduation.
>
> OK. As jukka is Mentor, we have to do this. Shall we do it NOW?
>
> Gr. Sim
>
> --
> QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
> Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 11:51, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> None of the graduation requirements [1] involve the technical status
> of the project, so there's no need to delay graduation for these
> issues.
>
> The only point that's relevant from the Incubator point of view is
> project branding, and through that the use of the org.apache package
> space. As mentioned before, I consider a release roadmap that includes
> the package change as sufficient for graduation.
OK. As jukka is Mentor, we have to do this. Shall we do it NOW?
Gr. Sim
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Tom Hobbs <tv...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> If those two things (and any others I might have forgotten) are
> generally considered less important than graduation and not required
> for graduation, then there is nothing stopping us from applying after
> our next bug fix release.
None of the graduation requirements [1] involve the technical status
of the project, so there's no need to delay graduation for these
issues.
The only point that's relevant from the Incubator point of view is
project branding, and through that the use of the org.apache package
space. As mentioned before, I consider a release roadmap that includes
the package change as sufficient for graduation.
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Minimum+Graduation+Requirements
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: graduation
Posted by Tom Hobbs <tv...@googlemail.com>.
You say it like that's a bad thing, I think my feathers are quite nice. :-)
If those two things (and any others I might have forgotten) are
generally considered less important than graduation and not required
for graduation, then there is nothing stopping us from applying after
our next bug fix release.
If both or one of those should/need to be done for graduation, then
let's pick which one and get cracking on it.
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
> On 24-11-10 11:21, Tom Hobbs wrote:
>>
>> I think that we're as a project team we're pretty much ready. There
>> are two big outstanding pieces of work though. As far as I can see,
>> neither of them are barriers to graduation, but both of them would be
>> "nice" to have done before graduation - in my opinion.
>
> But aren't we starting to look like chicks (avian) afraid to leave the
> mothers nest, or egg?
>
> Gr. Sim
>
> --
> QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
> Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 11:35, Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
> On 24-11-10 11:21, Tom Hobbs wrote:
>> I think that we're as a project team we're pretty much ready.
>> There are two big outstanding pieces of work though. As far as I
>> can see, neither of them are barriers to graduation, but both of
>> them would be "nice" to have done before graduation - in my
>> opinion.
>
> But aren't we starting to look like chicks (avian) afraid to leave
> the mothers nest, or egg?
>
> Gr. Sim
>
If you want to 'freak out' a potential new user of river, we should ask
them to read the following out loud:
> Incubation is required of all newly accepted projects until a further
> review indicates that the infrastructure, communications, and
> decision making process have stabilized in a manner consistent with
> other successful ASF projects. While incubation status is not
> necessarily a reflection of the completeness or stability of the
> code, it does indicate that the project has yet to be fully endorsed
> by the ASF.
Well, this instills me with a lot of confidence. Thats why i want to
graduate river. IMHO.
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 11:21, Tom Hobbs wrote:
> I think that we're as a project team we're pretty much ready. There
> are two big outstanding pieces of work though. As far as I can see,
> neither of them are barriers to graduation, but both of them would be
> "nice" to have done before graduation - in my opinion.
But aren't we starting to look like chicks (avian) afraid to leave the
mothers nest, or egg?
Gr. Sim
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 25-11-10 15:20, Zsolt Kúti wrote:
> Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:04:33 +1000 -n
> Peter Firmstone<ji...@zeus.net.au> írta:
>
>> Awesome, is that Christmas cake?
> I thought it was Darth Vader looking through his mask when he's just
> completed his mission. ;-)
ROTFLMAO
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Zsolt Kúti <ku...@prolan.hu> wrote:
> Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:04:33 +1000 -n
> Peter Firmstone <ji...@zeus.net.au> írta:
>
>> Awesome, is that Christmas cake?
> I thought it was Darth Vader looking through his mask when he's just
> completed his mission. ;-)
ROTFL.
I am on same page with Jukka. RoadMap is all there is. And remember,
net.jini namespace for specification classes are not expected to be
changed as per agreement on entry into incubation. This should limit
user impact significantly.
Cheers
>> Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
>> > On 25-11-10 14:17, Jonathan Costers wrote:
>> >> I think the migration to Apache is almost over now :-)
>> >
>> > _____
>> > _..--'''@ @'''--.._
>> > .' @_/-//-\/>/>'/ @ '.
>> > ( @ /_<//<'/----------^-)
>> > |'._ @ //|###########|
>> > |~ ''--..@|',|}}}}}}}}}}}|
>> > | ~ ~ |/ |###########|
>> > | ~~ ~ ~|./|{{{{{{{{{{{|
>> > '._ ~ ~ ~ |,/`````````````
>> > jrei ''--.~.|/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
Re: graduation
Posted by Zsolt Kúti <ku...@prolan.hu>.
Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:04:33 +1000 -n
Peter Firmstone <ji...@zeus.net.au> írta:
> Awesome, is that Christmas cake?
I thought it was Darth Vader looking through his mask when he's just
completed his mission. ;-)
> Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
> > On 25-11-10 14:17, Jonathan Costers wrote:
> >> I think the migration to Apache is almost over now :-)
> >
> > _____
> > _..--'''@ @'''--.._
> > .' @_/-//-\/>/>'/ @ '.
> > ( @ /_<//<'/----------^-)
> > |'._ @ //|###########|
> > |~ ''--..@|',|}}}}}}}}}}}|
> > | ~ ~ |/ |###########|
> > | ~~ ~ ~|./|{{{{{{{{{{{|
> > '._ ~ ~ ~ |,/`````````````
> > jrei ''--.~.|/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 25-11-10 15:04, Peter Firmstone wrote:
> Awesome, is that Christmas cake?
I've already eaten a piece as advance to the graduation! Couldn't help
myself.
>
> Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
>> On 25-11-10 14:17, Jonathan Costers wrote:
>>> I think the migration to Apache is almost over now :-)
>>
>> _____
>> _..--'''@ @'''--.._
>> .' @_/-//-\/>/>'/ @ '.
>> ( @ /_<//<'/----------^-)
>> |'._ @ //|###########|
>> |~ ''--..@|',|}}}}}}}}}}}|
>> | ~ ~ |/ |###########|
>> | ~~ ~ ~|./|{{{{{{{{{{{|
>> '._ ~ ~ ~ |,/`````````````
>> jrei ''--.~.|/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Peter Firmstone <ji...@zeus.net.au>.
Awesome, is that Christmas cake?
Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
> On 25-11-10 14:17, Jonathan Costers wrote:
>> I think the migration to Apache is almost over now :-)
>
> _____
> _..--'''@ @'''--.._
> .' @_/-//-\/>/>'/ @ '.
> ( @ /_<//<'/----------^-)
> |'._ @ //|###########|
> |~ ''--..@|',|}}}}}}}}}}}|
> | ~ ~ |/ |###########|
> | ~~ ~ ~|./|{{{{{{{{{{{|
> '._ ~ ~ ~ |,/`````````````
> jrei ''--.~.|/
>
>
>
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 25-11-10 14:17, Jonathan Costers wrote:
> I think the migration to Apache is almost over now :-)
_____
_..--'''@ @'''--.._
.' @_/-//-\/>/>'/ @ '.
( @ /_<//<'/----------^-)
|'._ @ //|###########|
|~ ''--..@|',|}}}}}}}}}}}|
| ~ ~ |/ |###########|
| ~~ ~ ~|./|{{{{{{{{{{{|
'._ ~ ~ ~ |,/`````````````
jrei ''--.~.|/
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Jonathan Costers <jo...@googlemail.com>.
This is so exciting... I still remember the time (what, 2 years ago?) when
this project was not far from being DEAD... Peter and myself being the only
active committers at the time... Almost no traffic on river-dev...
The number of committers has since then doubled, general interest in the
project is back (heck, we even got some river-user posts!) and people are
thinking about improving the technology, submitting code and documenting
stuff ...
I think the migration to Apache is almost over now :-)
Thanks and congrats to everyone involved.
Keep up the good work!
Jonathan
2010/11/24 Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
> I think I'll post a graduation vote just to get you guys out of my inbox
> :-)
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:38 AM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
> > On 24-11-10 12:12, Peter Firmstone wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Both of these will have a significant impact on our user base so the
> >>> work needs to be well publicised.
> >>
> >> +1
> >
> > Could you add a few lines to:
> >
> > http://river.staging.apache.org/river/roadmap.html
> >
> > Gr. Sim
> >
> >
> > --
> > QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
> > Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
> >
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
I think I'll post a graduation vote just to get you guys out of my inbox :-)
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:38 AM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
> On 24-11-10 12:12, Peter Firmstone wrote:
>>>
>>> Both of these will have a significant impact on our user base so the
>>> work needs to be well publicised.
>>
>> +1
>
> Could you add a few lines to:
>
> http://river.staging.apache.org/river/roadmap.html
>
> Gr. Sim
>
>
> --
> QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
> Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 24-11-10 12:12, Peter Firmstone wrote:
>> Both of these will have a significant impact on our user base so the
>> work needs to be well publicised.
> +1
Could you add a few lines to:
http://river.staging.apache.org/river/roadmap.html
Gr. Sim
--
QCG, Software voor het MKB, 071-5890970, http://www.qcg.nl
Quality Consultancy Group b.v., Leiderdorp, Kvk Den Haag: 28088397
Re: graduation
Posted by Peter Firmstone <ji...@zeus.net.au>.
Tom Hobbs wrote:
> I think that we're as a project team we're pretty much ready. There
> are two big outstanding pieces of work though. As far as I can see,
> neither of them are barriers to graduation, but both of them would be
> "nice" to have done before graduation - in my opinion.
>
> 1. Modularise the build (and decide on JDK version policy, binary
> compatability etc) WITH DOCUMENTATION
> 2. Move to org.apache namespace
>
> My gut tells me that whichever one we do first, the second will
> require us to revisit that original work.
>
> So, do people agree that these things need to be done before
> graduation and, if so, in which order.
Do them together after our next release to limit the impact of changes.
> Or can we wait until after?
>
+1
> Both of these will have a significant impact on our user base so the
> work needs to be well publicised.
>
+1
Cheers,
Peter.
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
>
>> On 11/22/2010 09:11 PM, Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
>>
>>> Shall we start working on graduation?
>>>
>> First question:
>>
>> - who is currently a member of the river PPMC?
>>
>> Gr. Sim
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Tom Hobbs <tv...@googlemail.com>.
I think that we're as a project team we're pretty much ready. There
are two big outstanding pieces of work though. As far as I can see,
neither of them are barriers to graduation, but both of them would be
"nice" to have done before graduation - in my opinion.
1. Modularise the build (and decide on JDK version policy, binary
compatability etc) WITH DOCUMENTATION
2. Move to org.apache namespace
My gut tells me that whichever one we do first, the second will
require us to revisit that original work.
So, do people agree that these things need to be done before
graduation and, if so, in which order. Or can we wait until after?
Both of these will have a significant impact on our user base so the
work needs to be well publicised.
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl> wrote:
> On 11/22/2010 09:11 PM, Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
>>
>> Shall we start working on graduation?
>
> First question:
>
> - who is currently a member of the river PPMC?
>
> Gr. Sim
>
>
Re: graduation
Posted by Sim IJskes - QCG <si...@qcg.nl>.
On 11/22/2010 09:11 PM, Sim IJskes - QCG wrote:
> Shall we start working on graduation?
First question:
- who is currently a member of the river PPMC?
Gr. Sim